Opened app this morning and cannot do anything until I accept new terms of use. They don’t bother to summarize what has changed and I cannot find the previous one of course.
don’t usually read these but such is my level of trust now I read it all. Mostly looked ok but this clause seems to shut the door to any complaints about any changes they make. This is appalling. Does anyone know if this clause is new?
Software Updates. Sonos shall have no obligation to provide any updates or upgrades to any aspect of the Product(s) or Services. Sonos, at its discretion, may make available future Product Software Updates. In the event that Sonos does provide such update or upgrade, such updates or upgrades and any related documentation shall be deemed the Product(s). The Product Software Updates, if any, may not necessarily include all existing software features or new features that Sonos releases for newer or other models of Product(s). The terms of this Agreement will govern any Product Software Updates provided by Sonos, unless such Product Software Update is accompanied by a separate agreement, in which case You agree that the terms of that agreement will govern. For more information about Product Security and Software Updates, please see our Platform Security Page.
There’s no decline option so I’ll be locked out of the app until I submit to them. How many more insults do they want their customers to accept?
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I think you’ll find there are similar clauses in pretty much all legal agreements. Check your broadband supplier’s T’s and C’s and there’s probably something excusing them for not providing internet access. Check your Microsoft licence and see what they can opt out of. As you say, many of us are more cautious at the moment, but at the end of the day you sign up to it or you don’t use the product.
same for me, I didn't ask for anything, the update was done automatically, even if it was strongly desired in view of all the shortcomings !!!!!
I find certain terms and conditions shocking, like those mentioned above, or even a ban on using products under 16 years of age without parental or guardian consent ....
To my recollection, I have never had to accept such conditions to use SONOS products.
If we don't want to accept, we can no longer use our products, will SONOS reimburse us for them then? These clauses are new and were not present at the time of purchase and god knows how expensive they are!!!
These clauses are new and were not present at the time of purchase and god knows how expensive they are!!!
You’ve actually no idea what the Ts & Cs said previously. And you will have accepted them. I would bet my house on this clause being unchanged - it’s just been brought into focus by the recent app furore.
same for me, I didn't ask for anything, the update was done automatically, even if it was strongly desired in view of all the shortcomings !!!!!
I find certain terms and conditions shocking, like those mentioned above, or even a ban on using products under 16 years of age without parental or guardian consent ....
To my recollection, I have never had to accept such conditions to use SONOS products.
If we don't want to accept, we can no longer use our products, will SONOS reimburse us for them then? These clauses are new and were not present at the time of purchase and god knows how expensive they are!!!
I assure you that you had to agree to the terms of use (aka the EULA) when you first installed Sonos. It’s standard for almost all software. The part about age limits has been there as long as I remember, and I go back to 2008. As to getting reimbursed, not a chance. You don’t own the software, you license it, and it’s pretty standard for the EULA to change (and those changes are protected by the language therein). There are exceptions, like if Sonos suddenly changed their privacy policy to sell your data when they previously promised not to, but I see no evidence of that.
I admit I don't remember accepting all this. As the topic creator says, why not highlight the changes? We are forced to accept new conditions ??? which ??? if we don't accept, we are blocked and we don't know how to do anything anymore !!! Would that please you ?
In short, it's been a month since for some people their installation became unusable... a month!!! ... and, in fact, these new conditions give the impression of shielding themselves against any recourse against their incompetence.
I’m more than happy to accept their generic terms if it means I can play music on the speakers.
You either accept them or you find an alternative audio system. You don’t have any choice. Sonos is in charge of their software and hardware, not us.
There might be additions to give extra protections if they make future errors, but given no-one is taking any legal action against them anyway, I suspect it simply tightens language rather than getting you to hand over your first born child.
I’m more than happy to accept their generic terms if it means I can play music on the speakers.
You either accept them or you find an alternative audio system. You don’t have any choice. Sonos is in charge of their software and hardware, not us.
ok for the first part, not for the second ....
If you buy a car and then suddenly the brand decides to force you to accept geolocation otherwise your car won't start, it's not fair!!!!
do you find it normal that they force you to agree to share your data? that they prohibit you from doing anything as a recourse (who would) in the event of a breach, removal of services or features??
Where have they forced you to share your data? This is specifically something Sonos doesn’t do. Anonymised usage data is as far as it goes.
If I bought a car and they changed a fundamental of my original acceptance, then you would be within your rights to return the car. But you have provided no evidence of anything fundamental that has been changed in Sonos’ Ts & Cs.
And they are not forcing you to accept a broken system - they are working on fixes, and have been demonstrably doing so for the last four weeks.
Unless you have not bought anything or created an account for anything in the last 20 years, then caveat emptor is nothing new.
ok for the first part, not for the second ....
If you buy a car and then suddenly the brand decides to force you to accept geolocation otherwise your car won't start, it's not fair!!!!
do you find it normal that they force you to agree to share your data? that they prohibit you from doing anything as a recourse (who would) in the event of a breach, removal of services or features??
See, that’s the thing, you didn’t buy the software like you buy a car. So stop making comparisons to something you purchased, they just don’t apply.
Where have they forced you to share your data? This is specifically something Sonos doesn’t do. Anonymised usage data is as far as it goes.
If I bought a car and they changed a fundamental of my original acceptance, then you would be within your rights to return the car. But you have provided no evidence of anything fundamental that has been changed in Sonos’ Ts & Cs.
And they are not forcing you to accept a broken system - they are working on fixes, and have been demonstrably doing so for the last four weeks.
Unless you have not bought anything or created an account for anything in the last 20 years, then caveat emptor is nothing new.
before we didn't have to create a profile with login and password. Everything was stored locally now we have to have a profile, they know exactly what devices you have, your favorites, your habits .....
First of all, similar clauses about software updates have been in the Terms of Use since at least 2018. Archived versions of the Terms of Use are available on the Sonos website for those interested.
Secondly, I don’t see what the problem is. You either agree to the Terms of Use and use the product, or you disagree and do not use it. Can’t get much simpler than that.
The previous Terms of Use is available here: https://www.sonos.com/en-us/legal/terms-of-use. I don’t like the idea that we are forced to agree to changes in the Terms after we purchased and installed the equipment. Has anyone one compared today’s Terms with the last one??
before we didn't have to create a profile with login and password. Everything was stored locally now we have to have a profile, they know exactly what devices you have, your favorites, your habits .....
You didn’t need a password, but you most certainly needed an email, and Sonos has been getting data from your system since day one. Why are you getting so up in arms about something you agreed to, and has been going on since you first signed up?
Also, as stated above, you can easily compare the current T.o.U to previous versions, in website or PDF form, right here:
Sonos isn’t hiding anything, and they are not trying to be sneaky. They lay it all out in the links above.
The previous Terms of Use is available here: https://www.sonos.com/en-us/legal/terms-of-use. I don’t like the idea that we are forced to agree to changes in the Terms after we purchased and installed the equipment. Has anyone one compared today’s Terms with the last one??
When you installed the equipment, you will have accepted terms which allow for terms to be amended in future. You can push back now and avoid accepting, but the only people who will care about that will be you.
You could always compare the terms yourself if you’re concerned?
Has anyone one compared today’s Terms with the last one??
If one is so worried about the changes, you’d think one would do the comparison themselves. Personally, I’ve compared them in the past, and if one is not prone to tin-foil hat conspiracies, the changes have been quite benign. Like “If you use a voice-control partner, we now have to send data to our voice-control partners” benign. Oooooh, they send data to a voice control partner if you use a voice control partner. Scary!!!
If anyone cares, you can put the two links that follow into this website:
And it will spell out the changes from the last T.o.U from 2022. A cursory glance is just what I thought. If anything, the 2024 version is more detailed and restrictive in what Sonos does with your data and more lenient in what is required from you as far as username/password is concerned (ex. “may require” in place of “requires”). Like much of the FUD being tossed around in here, it’s a big nothing burger.
The Privacy Policy has a few more changes. I did a quick quick scan, the sentences “We do not and will not sell your personal data to third parties” and “Sonos does not and will not sell personal information about our customers.” appear to have been removed from the June 2024 Privacy Policy compared to previous March 2023 version.
The Privacy Policy has a few more changes. I did a quick quick scan, the sentences “We do not and will not sell your personal data to third parties” and “Sonos does not and will not sell personal information about our customers.” appear to have been removed from the June 2024 Privacy Policy compared to previous March 2023 version.
Good catch. I can’t find any references to Sonos promising not to sell personal information in the privacy policy at all anymore.
I guess they changed their mind?
…Fine by me… If Sonos wants to sell the fact that I like all types of music, then good luck to them making any money from that. If someone wants to see my email address, that’s fine too. They can’t do anything with it.
It’s absolutely nothing compared to those websites that list 736 partners in their cookie screen, and if you don’t want them to see your data you have to manually untick each and every one of them. Which no-one ever does.
I cannot imagine there is a company out there that doesn’t already have my data!
There are exceptions, like if Sonos suddenly changed their privacy policy to sell your data when they previously promised not to, but I see no evidence of that.
I wonder where this will lead:
2023 Privacy Statement:
2024 Privacy Statement:
Fine by me too, as long as some of the revenue generated is used to enhance products and make them more affordable. ie I give Sonos my data, they give me a better product at a cheaper price
There is a lot of indignation - heightened I’d suggest by Sonos’ poor current consumer perception - but one can’t be morally outraged about them selling data when we access dozens, if not hundreds, of other websites and apps where we leave a deep and information-rich footprint every day.
I have no real issue with them knowing what I listen to either - although such a fundamental change (if indeed it is as it reads) should have been highlighted more clearly.
I have no real issue with them knowing what I listen to either - although such a fundamental change (if indeed it is as it reads) should have been highlighted more clearly.
Very true. (My point was not aimed at recent posters specifically, but more those who are outraged across the forum without any further consideration about their online presence.)
I have no real issue with them knowing what I listen to either - although such a fundamental change (if indeed it is as it reads) should have been highlighted more clearly.
I looked into this days ago (unlike most of the privacy/security obsessed, I put my money where my mouth is and actually look at past versions, instead of jumping right into the FUD). I got a PM from a Sonos rep that I won’t share here; it gave the possibility that these changes are benign, but not quite enough to satisfy my curiosity. Currently, I have an email with an inquiry about these changes sent to the privacy account at Sonos. Unlike those who like to see things burn, or see themselves as some sort of social justice superhero, I personally like to get all possible explanations before lighting the fires on a public forum. I suggest you do the same.
