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Kumar
January 23, 2020

The Sonos Brexit and pragmatic ways past it

  • January 23, 2020
  • 570 replies
  • 22879 views

I will start this thread with a few caveats:

First, this thread is not for rants. There are plenty here for those, and there is no bar on opening new ones.

Second, the thread is directed for the subset of users that have a large investment in legacy products, and are content to see their Sonos systems as music systems that offer stable streamed music from either a NAS or from the net, and have no expectation of more bells and whistles - just that things continue to work as they are working today. I happen to be in this boat as well, as someone that has three out of six zones running very well on legacy products that I simply cannot afford to jettison until the hardware dies.

Third, this thread is based on facts, some of which have been coming to light only over the last 48 or so hours. It is therefore incomplete to an extent, and may even be wrong in places. Feel free therefore to clarify/correct/add as necessary - and I specifically invite @Ryan S  to do so. But, no rants please - they have a place, but this is not it.

All that said, this is the solution I intend to proceed with and recommend here:

Opt for a legacy system operation in May, that will run legacy and modern products, exactly as these run today; no faffing around with two networks. No more enhancements, but expecting Sonos to honestly fulfil their recent promise of all bug fixes that the legacy products can accommodate. Ditto for what needs to be done to accommodate changes driven by at least the mainstream service providers.

By a happy coincidence, all legacy products have line in jacks. So if something even happens at the streaming service end that cannot be accommodated in legacy products, I am confident of finding some device that can be wired to the line in jacks of these, that will still allow streaming from the culprit service to work including in grouped mode with all other products in the system.

The streaming from the local NAS will not have any issues in this mode, other than hardware failures including that of the NAS, and a key assumption here is that NAS changes will not need a Sonos software update.

Although Sonos has said that new products can be added to such a system, I do not see how this is possible once new products come installed with versions that are beyond the frozen legacy system one. Unless Sonos is not going to sell any new products in future with versions beyond the 2020 legacy one - I doubt that. And once a product comes with the latest version, adding it to a legacy system without rendering legacy products inoperable is going to be tricky because it will involve first separating the one system into two; I also admit to being a little fuzzy with this bit. In my case, this is all moot; I have no need for another zone. As an aside, I am someone therefore that is not of much interest to Sonos!

I also assume that if anyone at any time in the future wanted to jettison legacy products for any reason, all they will need to do is leave all such products powered off, invoke updates and the result will be a Sonos system updated to the day they do the invocation. The concern here for me is different - I need to have an ironclad way of NOT updating my system before I am ready to separate or jettison legacy products, and this needs more insights into how things will work on this front in future.

I am pretty sure that this way ahead will work in my use case and I suggest it will also work for many that are heavily invested in Sonos legacy products, that do not want to write it off or to trade up to new products just to retain all existing functionality.

Yes, it involves losing future enhancements/features, but once we accept that these essentially are music boxes that will keep doing all they do today, that should be an acceptable trade off, I suggest. It is to me, for sure.

So this way, this event will be just a minor inconvenience, and I expect to be able to use all my existing products till the hardware fails.

What this event has convince me though is to now look at/recommend smart systems that are truly modular in the sense that the smart bits can be periodically replaced at low cost, while the core “dumb” electronic hardware can be of such build/after sales support, that it justifies the higher investment in the consequent price, if better sound quality is also needed than what the smart front ends can alone provide. But that's for the future.

 

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      User933635
      Prominent Collaborator I
      January 26, 2020

      Greetings, All (though SONOS probably won’t read this; they’ll all be lying down in darkened rooms or revising their CVs).

      Having followed this for a few days of days (has it only been that long?), here are my (final) thoughts. 

      I’ve been researching and collating quite a lot recently and this is the repository of my current impressions.  I’ll be posting it in both https://en.community.sonos.com/announcements-228985/end-of-software-support-clarifications-6835969 and https://en.community.sonos.com/controllers-software-228995/the-sonos-brexit-and-a-pragmatic-way-past-it-6836056 .  Apologies if this is long; it’s become complex; but is definitely no rant, just my personal views.

      The CEO’s email does nothing to allay my own fears going forward.  I have legacy and ‘modern’ (for now) dumb, (not voice) audio devices within ear-shot of each other.  My only route is to keep my system locked in its present form as they confirm that legacy and modern system areas cannot be grouped in synchrony https://en.community.sonos.com/wireless-speakers-228992/will-i-still-be-able-to-group-new-and-old-products-together-and-receive-updates-on-newer-products-6836043 .  I suspect this is a consequence of the decision that SONOS made in its infancy to have distributed rather than centralized intelligence using a Precision Time Protocol (probably IEEE 1588-2002).  This is worth a read: https://www.sonos.com/en-gb/how-it-started but I expect it’s had consequences as soon as the design philosophy was set; the 65k limit for example and the inability to use anything other than PCM stereo.  SONOS architecture was set with “Any Song. Any Room.”  Frankly anything else has always been a stretch and I suspect this distributed intelligence would preclude the much vaulted request to have a central memory hub handling legacy devices.

      SONOS’ recent decision over legacy devices may eventually open up lots of new possibilities, which the user community has been asking for on these pages for many years.  These could include bluetooth, and any number of ‘cinema’ enhancements (DTS or Dolby Atmos), but clearly voice seems to be something of a next step after buying Snips (https://investors.sonos.com/news-and-events/investor-news/latest-news/2019/Sonos-Announces-Acquisition-of-Snips/default.aspx).  In order to make use of this it will have to weather its recent storm.  For the time being SONOS is a cash-wealthy company; I think Snips cost $37M and back in September 2019 they announced a $50M stock buy back programme.  They apparently have $298.5M cash (https://thefly.com/landingPageNews.php?id=2957758&headline=SONO-Sonos-approves-M-share-repurchase-program). SONOS has also been bringing to market a lot of new devices and speakers in recent years.  While most of these are just new versions of old, the line-up has expanded with ‘architectural solutions’ (speakers to you and me) and the Move.  I think this has been long overdue and may have tempted new adopters to multi-room ecosystems to plump for SONOS in comparison to any of the increasing number of alternatives, especially for people with outdoor spaces.  The point here is even new versions or old solutions plus the new devices will have been expensive to develop.  I think SONOS has been wise to expand its line-up.

      Among technology journalists, the reaction to SONOS’ decision over legacy devices has been a bit of a shrug, in my opinion.  Lots of “Well, what do you expect from tech?”, “SONOS has been brave in coming clean over this” and “This is probably the first, but not the last time we hear of this”.  In contrast, the user community has been livid.  Within a few hours of the announcement the first forum (https://en.community.sonos.com/announcements-228985/end-of-software-updates-for-legacy-products-6835470) had 1378 replies, 53464 views and reached 56 pages before being closed down for reasons that I cannot fathom, except SONOS didn’t like what they were hearing.  The later one (https://en.community.sonos.com/announcements-228985/end-of-software-support-clarifications-6835969) now stands at roughly 2250 replies, 97,882 views and ~103 pages and counting.  Almost entirely universally the comments are highly critical and damning of the recent decision.  They accuse SONOS of being arrogant and the announcement hastily announced, crude in nature and a slap in the face to those who have spent the most over the longest period and who have probably been the most evangelical about the brand for the longest time to friends and family. 

      This loss of trust that very many now feel is precisely because most brand or ecosystem adopters don't (can’t) rush out and fill a house with devices; instead they build systems over many years as needs evolve and funds allow and when an announcement of this magnitude drops into the inbox of the most loyal customers then the consequence is the fury that was unleashed.  While SONOS did hint at this in their Annual Report (https://s22.q4cdn.com/672173472/files/doc_financials/2019/q4/52d86c5b-248f-4939-aa85-1489c1828e7f.pdf#page=17) and they spell out very many risk factors that the company faces; these are both external and internal to the company itself and some are as a result of being a relatively small and niche technology entity where the sector is changing rapidly and dominated by some extremely powerful competitors.  Many of these registered risks are probably familiar to business students through to company Directors however, a most relevant risk here it that: “We may choose to discontinue support for older versions of our products, resulting in customer dissatisfaction that could negatively affect our business and operating results.”  I wonder when the Board was signing off this Report whether they really understood the potential for this risk to bite and whether they have accurately modelled it for financial and reputational impact.  Only they know but, I imagine they have been completely blind-sided by the response.  The evidence is here: https://www.trustpilot.com/review/www.sonos.com, with 80% ‘Bad’ reviews out of 910 posted and a TrustScore of 1.3 out of 5.  This is just about as low as it’s possible to get since the lowest post is 1; secondly, that this community topic (https://en.community.sonos.com/announcements-228985/end-of-software-support-clarifications-6835969) and the previously closed one (https://en.community.sonos.com/announcements-228985/end-of-software-updates-for-legacy-products-6835470) are those with the biggest number of replies, by far.  Thirdly, their share price has taken a hit (down ~2%, https://www.nasdaq.com/market-activity/stocks/sono), but this will take some time to work through.  SONOS are expected to post revenue of between $1.365B and $1.4B, roughly 9.5% annual growth (https://www.fool.com/investing/2020/01/05/why-sonos-stock-climbed-128-in-december.aspx) though it will be interesting to know more when they announce their most recent financial results and host a Q&A (https://investors.sonos.com/news-and-events/investor-news/latest-news/2020/Sonos-Announces-Date-for-First-Quarter-2020-Financial-Results-and-Conference-Call/default.aspx).  Lastly, though the journalists are a bit ‘shruggy’ the rest of the web is not. A quick online search reveals all you need to know.

      Sadly I think SONOS’ philosophy has been crumbling for quite a while.  Recent and not so recent updates that offer system improvements have often resulted in the opposite in my opinion.  Here are several examples:

      1    Upcoming changes to ‘On this iPhone or iPad’ Playback (https://en.community.sonos.com/announcements-228985/upcoming-changes-to-on-this-iphone-or-ipad-playback-6826585) is the third most replied to forum topic and describes the loss of a feature.

      2    Updates to the Desktop Controller Coming Soon (https://en.community.sonos.com/announcements-228985/updates-to-the-desktop-controller-coming-soon-6813300) is the fourth most replied to form topic and begins with a long-requested visual update, but most people preferred the blue version it seems.  Importantly though this ‘refresh’ removed:

      • Setting up or transferring a system
      • Adding a player to existing system
      • The ability to bond/unbond players (surrounds, stereo pairs, or adding a Sub).
      • Registering players
      • TV setup for Beam, Playbase, and Playbar,
      • Enabling parental controls
      • Network settings and management
      • Line-in settings
      • Renaming a Room
      • Opting in or out of a beta program
      • Resetting your Sonos account password (you can still do so on a computer via sonos.com)

      This turned out to be an attack on many fronts.  Importantly, it requires users to have up to date tablets or phones to do the management of the system, whereas it used to be possible to manage the entirety of the system with the desktop application and allowed older devices to still be used as everyday controllers.  SONOS’ decision here is decidedly anti-ethical and a non-sustainability practise and seemingly against their Responsibility pledge for wider Product Design and Supply Chain (https://www.sonos.com/en-gb/sustainability), but SONOS have never really opened up about this.  Importantly it also prevents users, or installers maintaining systems using Remote Desktop applications, which was nuts.

      3    Android Devices no longer able to join SonosNet (https://en.community.sonos.com/announcements-228985/android-devices-no-longer-able-to-join-sonosnet-6825471).  I asked SONOS help about this and their response was two-fold.  Firstly removing the feature, which was little used, apparently (though looking through support revealed a solid fan base) would free up device memory for other purposes.  Also, SONOS sort-of feared it might be related to electronic interference between the network and amplification circuitry.  These are my words but I did have a P5s replaced under warranty for issues around electronic interference, which SONOS said they could not replicate.  At the time it was a fantastic managed-AP though, well if you used Android.

      The sad thing is that SONOS seemingly are very closed about their decision making any have never allowed user options.  The system is locked and updates irreversible.  Technically I don’t quite buy this since it is possible to reverse a beta upgrade, so it must be theoretically possible to wind the firmware back.  If I could, I’d probably like to revert to something around the 6.x or 7.x era and if I could fix the volume down ramp I would.

      It’s not all doom and gloom as SONOS have introduced a few new features, most recently Amazon music HD though there is confusion about whether it really is HD if it’s called for by Alexa and the company are promising a fix.  Also, the loss then reinstatement of Audible, where the fix took quite a while to be sorted.  And this is the crux of issues into the future.  SONOS has been quite good about telling customers in advance when third party integrations will stop working and have a desire to maintain this, but if you have a legacy device in your system this will stop though when the third party company changes its protocols you will lose functionality and I imagine there won’t be a fix for this. 

      Another driver for UK (and VPN) users could be related to the fact that the BBC is due to release a significant update for BBC SOUNDS in 2020 (https://www.bbc.co.uk/sounds/help/questions/supported-devices/connected-tv) albeit for smart TVs.  It might just be the case that this also brings the on-demand features of BBC SOUNDS to SONOS and other aggregators and streamers, but presumably not if your system is legacy.  The on-demand content of BBC Radio, music and podcasts now through SOUNDS has been a perennial request to SONOS across many request forums.  By the way if you listen to BBC Radio on your SONOS then look at this: http://steveseear.org/high-quality-bbc-radio-streams/ for advice.  While there’s less meta-data available I find these streams more reliable than from the aggregators.  I used to use minimserver (https://minimserver.com/) to handle this, but now access the BBC streams directly.

      Final issues: ~7W on ‘standby’ isn’t really acceptable anymore.  It might have been fine when lightbulbs were 60-100W but we can now light a house for the electrical cost of SONOS on standby, but this isn’t a rant!

      So where does this leave us all?  SONOS are definitely in a flat spin about all this, or should be.  It’s highly unusual for the CEO to apologise about the way they handled a situation, but they are seemingly staying firm.  As mentioned above if I cannot group modern and legacy then all my system will remain legacy and I’ll probably ditch SONOS, which will be a pity.  A lot will depend on the situation between now and May and also what happens to the company and its customer relations and financial (sales) situation.  At worst I may keep some small areas of SONOS but expect something else to largely take over and the system to be relegated.  I bought into “The smart home sound system.” And SONOS’ “Our DNA – The connected home.” (https://www.sonos.com/en-gb/our-company)  This has to be one system, not two and trading up with a 30% discount when prices were recently raised makes me look the fool.  What this exactly means will depend on imagined future habits and where the software and hardware platforms go, plus what happens to various streaming services.  I don’t think it’ll be BOSE, more likely Yamaha for their integrated amp setup, plus standalone speakers, or something bespoke.  There world is moving very fast!  Will see…, but I will be extremely hesitant and cautious about recommending the SONOS platform to anyone in the future.  The brand has sadly lost my trust, but I understand that everyone is free to make their own decisions. 

      Anyway, I hope this post might help you be better informed so you can make your choices.

      Cheers, All and well done for reading this far.  Remember, it is only stuff!

        Sparkyboots
        Enthusiast I
        January 26, 2020

        Regarding getting used equipment to fill in holes in your system….how can you tell if it has been put into recycle mode?

        What happens in this process? Do users actually have to return the speaker (or whatever) to sonos to get the 30% off or could the user put it into recycle mode to get the 30 % off and then sell that item on ebay etc.

         

         

        And there in lies the problem you wouldn’t know, my plan would be buying from somewhere like eBay after asking the seller to confirm it hasn’t been put into recycle mode then at least you have the protection of eBay and PayPal who are usually pretty good at refunding for issues. 

        chickentender
        chickentender
        January 26, 2020

        Regarding getting used equipment to fill in holes in your system….how can you tell if it has been put into recycle mode?

        What happens in this process? Do users actually have to return the speaker (or whatever) to sonos to get the 30% off or could the user put it into recycle mode to get the 30 % off and then sell that item on ebay etc.

         

         

        See this: https://support.sonos.com/s/article/3573?language=en_US
        I’d suggest simply requiring a seller to show you the unit connected to a controller and working. Check the speaker in room settings to confirm it’s not be recycle tagged. If a seller doesn’t want to or claims they cannot, move on.

         

        Further, it’ll be apparent right away if it’s been recycled. “During the countdown and once the product has been deactivated, the product cannot be re-added to any system or used to set up a new Sonos system, even if the product has been reset to its factory settings. You could just connect to it with your controller and you’ll know immediately.

          Ryan S
          Ryan S
          Retired Sonos Staff
          January 26, 2020

          Hi everyone, good discussion so far!

          We will be official sharing more information in May, and until then, while I’m happy to provide some answers, things may change. I don’t want to give you incorrect information that you use to make big decisions on, and then have something change and make that incorrect.

          @Ralpfocus once devices switch over to legacy software, you’ll still be able to add new devices that currently exist. In the future, when new Sonos products start coming out, their software will not likely be compatible with legacy builds, and also, legacy software won’t know what they are to be able to add them. That said, if you want to add a new Play:5 gen1 or gen2 to your legacy system a few months later, that should be doable. When they go to update, they’ll get the right software version for the legacy system. But again, more on this will come in May.

           

          The scenario  - As I have legacy products that I wish to retain in May and some modern products that I want to continue to work with the legacy products I put my system into legacy mode.

          The questions are

          Can I expect to be able to add any of the existing product set to a legacy environment. Irrespective of the release of software/firmware that the product is manufactured with or for that matter the date it is manufactured?

          Since Sonos are committed to supporting a product for at least 5 years after end of manufacture is the legacy environment effectively good for at least 5 years after the demise of the last of the current product set?    (Subject to changes in streaming services APIs)

          Even if Sonos bring out a new product for which they they cannot or will not create a legacy date software/firmware version will all other current (April 2020) products still be able to join a Legacy environment?

          If in another n (lets be optimistic 10) years I find that my legacy components (which will probably have increased by then) have all reached the end of their useful life will it be simple to come out of legacy mode?

          Is it realistic to have the expectation that Sonos will attempt to make changes to the legacy streaming APIs if required?

          The understanding is that any new features made available over the next few years may not be available in a legacy environment.

          Given that Ryan and co will be snowed in, my attempt at responses:

          1. If by existing you mean existing with you just now, or what you will buy till May - yes.
          2. No, because for such products that have been identified as legacy, 5 years have passed.
          3. Yes, as long as these are added before getting updated in some way to a post legacy version. There is some confusion around this, with some contradicting this by suggesting that the version can be rolled back to enable them to also join.
          4. Yes, but only with such products that can be brought to the level of the software then prevailing.
          5. Yes, because the word “attempt” can mean anything. I suppose they will do this as long as there is the memory for this and as long as it isn't too much of a hassle. Plus, this will go in a queue and may not get the best treatment there. Prepare to either then switch services, or resort to the Line In jacks.
          6. Instead of the words “may not” say “will not”. And there are no legitimate grounds to complain about that, IMO.

          These are pretty much correct, though I’d have phrased some of the answers differently. I think my comment above will help clarify some of the answers too. 

            

          I prefer the legacy devices like the ZP100/ZP120/Connect Amp for their design.and was curious if they block the ability to add those down the road.

          I have not seen this to be said anywhere. Only a Connect Amp made after 2015, once it gets to a version after the legacy version, cannot be added. Of course, it should not have been bricked for recycling for a 30% claim.

          So if you have a legacy system mode operating, and you want to add one of the above that are at or before that system version, the dedicated to legacy system app that is promised will allow you to add these products to the legacy system. At any time in the future.

          @Ryan S / @Edward R - to please object if I am wrong.

          You’ll continue to be able to add ZP100/ZP120/Connect:Amp devices on legacy software (assuming those devices haven’t been recycled through the trade up). Even the Connect:Amp that are 2015 devices will be able to add in on modern software. There may be a point in time in the future where a software build for a modern Connect:Amp can’t be added to legacy, but I can’t speak to that specifically, just saying it’s a possibility at some point. 

          Split system warning!

          I wrote this on another thread just now and am copying that here, because the warning is very relevant here as well:

          Split systems sound good in theory, but will rapidly become very tiresome to operate. I don't see anyone use these for long. The problem is that then the only option will be to go to one system with modern products, and dump the legacy products. Because the modern products won't make it back to any unified system that has legacy products in it.

          One therefore needs to be very careful in opting for splits. I anticipate that many won’t, discover this truth too late, and then there will be another firestorm like this one.

          PS:In that thread I was advised that I may be jumping the gun; before being given that advice, I had already flagged my response to @Ryan S  for confirmation in the thread where I posted the above. If he disagrees with any of the above - I will post my eating of the above words on this thread.

          I may be misreading you, but if you decide to split your system, and after a little while have a change of heart, you will still be able to move the modern devices down to the legacy build. This may not always be an option, but I don’t have enough certainty on all of those details and what might change, so we’ll go with “more to come in May.” My personal recommendation (depending on what your legacy to modern device ratio looks like) would be to move everything (including modern devices) to the legacy build for a while. Your system will continue to function as it has and if at some point in the future something stops working, or there’s a new feature that you really want to enjoy, you can look at your options then. Trade Up isn’t going anywhere, it’s an ongoing offer currently with no end date. 

           

          And @User933635, we do read every single comment posted on the community and share with the right teams. Thanks for taking the time to prepare such as statement. 

          Mark good posts by pressing the like button, and select the best answer on questions you've asked to help others find solutions.
            Cisume
            Enthusiast II
            January 26, 2020


            We can only try. Based on the track record of SONOS, it probably won’t happen, but they have painted themselves in a bit of a corner, so it can’t hurt to bring the topic to attention again.

            I won’t be doing any big bang thing here but I know that the clock is now ticking on my current $7000 multi zone audio delivery system.  It would be prudent to plan and budget for a rebuild in then next 3-5 years. The NEXT GENERATION SONOS will be assessed, but I think I will be running more speaker wire this time. I can’t afford to replace my entire system every 5-7years.

            I only bought the amps and added MonitorAudio speakers. Anyway, down the road the best way is to buy items with open standards and modular devices. Anything which relies on build computing power is going to run into the same problems earlier or later. They should have 2 separate product lines all together, one designed for multi room audio and one for cheaper internet connected speakers. Google and Amazon speakers take their abilities from their cloud services and include home automation that’s an area you can’t compete with. Even Microsoft’s Cortana couldn’t do it. I think anybody with a true multi room configuration wouldn’t mind to be required to run a service on a NAS / PC / Mac / Pi or a SONOS own dedicated device to provide all the local computing power. Then you have to replace or upgrade just one device in your whole system. If they set an expiration date on their products then the buying consideration is changing and more competition pops up  and it ends up with a race to the bottom. Amazon/Google can sell their items at cost because they make their money in other areas.

              Cisume
              Enthusiast II
              January 26, 2020

              Does anyone know if Roon could be used as a server to send simultaneously to  the legacy and modern networks? I asked this on the main thread but it got lost in the widespread venting. The Roon support site seems to think it can,

               

              If the provide something like a Radio Station stream locally I wouldn't see any reason why it shouldn’t.

              They support the old Squeezebox Devices. They have a 14 Day trial 

              Cisume
              Enthusiast II
              January 26, 2020

              I just personally see things differently ...and to standstill too long now would mean to stifle any technological innovation… we would still be using vhs video tapes if we all adopted a legacy system. I’m sorry, but you can keep your vinyl and audio cassette tapes.. I’m well past those things. At least let those that want to, race ahead. Thinking about it, Sonos is providing us here with the opportunity to standstill or innovate. So it’s perhaps the best announcement we ALL could have wished for anyway.🤔 

              Like the great innovation of 3D TV !  How many are they selling these day of this type ? 

              Ken_Griffiths
              Ken_Griffiths
              January 26, 2020

              I just personally see things differently ...and to standstill too long now would mean to stifle any technological innovation… we would still be using vhs video tapes if we all adopted a legacy system. I’m sorry, but you can keep your vinyl and audio cassette tapes.. I’m well past those things. At least let those that want to, race ahead. Thinking about it, Sonos is providing us here with the opportunity to standstill or innovate. So it’s perhaps the best announcement we ALL could have wished for anyway.🤔 

              Like the great innovation of 3D TV !  How many are they selling these day of this type ? 

              ...ha ha that made me LOL,👍 At least I have a sense of humour too, which is more than I can say for a few others around here. Thanks for the smile and I’m pleased to say I didn’t buy a 3D TV.. I bought two Play 5’s instead and definitely no regrets there. 👍

                Ralpfocus
                Prodigy III
                January 26, 2020

                @Ryan S thank you for the response, not entirely happy but then who is right now.

                I will make the observation that an awful lot is waiting on statements coming in May. This lack of clarity is continuing to make  the situation worse 

                 

                  chevsky
                  Contributor I
                  January 27, 2020

                  I wrote a polite reply, but then lost it because this Sonos board software sucks. Now I’ll be frank.

                  I spent money and time on your stupid devices. What I got was a reminder that the days are gone of purchasing any tech system and being able to just use it. I mean, not be plagued with forced updates, scoundrel spying, etc. If only your advertisements included the truth: “when the mood is on, just reach for the controller, and.. oh, update your system now or suck eggs!” Moment gone, erection lost. Every goddamned time I went to use the ZP100 I was met with this, and had to dig out my Sonos username and password.

                  I get it that internet streaming services can change protocol parameters, new services become available, or Sonos decides to collect user data, but the forced update is an insult. And who among us is OK with a vendor recording data on us? Gee, haven’t played any music in 36hours--must be traveling… ripe for a burglary?

                  So what is going to happen now? Will they issue firmware that stops dialing their mothership, so I can finally use this box in peace, to play music from my local NAS, phones, and aux inputs? Or will I get constant nags about being out of support, and “buy our new equipment that has microphones and cameras so that we can sell data on your behavior habits to our ‘partners’!?” Will I have to configure my routers to deny all outgoing traffic from the ZP100? Will that break it, so it says “configuration error, call Sonos”?

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