The Sonos Brexit and pragmatic ways past it

Forum|Forum|6 years ago
January 23, 2020
570 replies
22878 views

I will start this thread with a few caveats:

First, this thread is not for rants. There are plenty here for those, and there is no bar on opening new ones.

Second, the thread is directed for the subset of users that have a large investment in legacy products, and are content to see their Sonos systems as music systems that offer stable streamed music from either a NAS or from the net, and have no expectation of more bells and whistles - just that things continue to work as they are working today. I happen to be in this boat as well, as someone that has three out of six zones running very well on legacy products that I simply cannot afford to jettison until the hardware dies.

Third, this thread is based on facts, some of which have been coming to light only over the last 48 or so hours. It is therefore incomplete to an extent, and may even be wrong in places. Feel free therefore to clarify/correct/add as necessary - and I specifically invite @Ryan S to do so. But, no rants please - they have a place, but this is not it.

All that said, this is the solution I intend to proceed with and recommend here:

Opt for a legacy system operation in May, that will run legacy and modern products, exactly as these run today; no faffing around with two networks. No more enhancements, but expecting Sonos to honestly fulfil their recent promise of all bug fixes that the legacy products can accommodate. Ditto for what needs to be done to accommodate changes driven by at least the mainstream service providers.

By a happy coincidence, all legacy products have line in jacks. So if something even happens at the streaming service end that cannot be accommodated in legacy products, I am confident of finding some device that can be wired to the line in jacks of these, that will still allow streaming from the culprit service to work including in grouped mode with all other products in the system.

The streaming from the local NAS will not have any issues in this mode, other than hardware failures including that of the NAS, and a key assumption here is that NAS changes will not need a Sonos software update.

Although Sonos has said that new products can be added to such a system, I do not see how this is possible once new products come installed with versions that are beyond the frozen legacy system one. Unless Sonos is not going to sell any new products in future with versions beyond the 2020 legacy one - I doubt that. And once a product comes with the latest version, adding it to a legacy system without rendering legacy products inoperable is going to be tricky because it will involve first separating the one system into two; I also admit to being a little fuzzy with this bit. In my case, this is all moot; I have no need for another zone. As an aside, I am someone therefore that is not of much interest to Sonos!

I also assume that if anyone at any time in the future wanted to jettison legacy products for any reason, all they will need to do is leave all such products powered off, invoke updates and the result will be a Sonos system updated to the day they do the invocation. The concern here for me is different - I need to have an ironclad way of NOT updating my system before I am ready to separate or jettison legacy products, and this needs more insights into how things will work on this front in future.

I am pretty sure that this way ahead will work in my use case and I suggest it will also work for many that are heavily invested in Sonos legacy products, that do not want to write it off or to trade up to new products just to retain all existing functionality.

Yes, it involves losing future enhancements/features, but once we accept that these essentially are music boxes that will keep doing all they do today, that should be an acceptable trade off, I suggest. It is to me, for sure.

So this way, this event will be just a minor inconvenience, and I expect to be able to use all my existing products till the hardware fails.

What this event has convince me though is to now look at/recommend smart systems that are truly modular in the sense that the smart bits can be periodically replaced at low cost, while the core “dumb” electronic hardware can be of such build/after sales support, that it justifies the higher investment in the consequent price, if better sound quality is also needed than what the smart front ends can alone provide. But that's for the future.

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A

amun

It has been said here (or least inferred) that if you add a used (maybe new too) unit to an older installation (in my case 7.4), SONOS will install that firmware version to it to provide compatibility and the ability to join the existing installation.

I haven’t seen that said anywhere by Sonos…. You will be able to add a new device to a legacy system, but no-one has said that the user can choose which version to install. It would be whatever Sonos have as the legacy release at that time….

And it may not include newly announced products unless they allow for them in the legacy build...

Ken_Griffiths

It’s sometimes difficult to know if things are mismanaged, or actually 'by design’, perhaps to make the whole world sit-up, watch and take notice. If all turns out well in the end, with the world watching, I would deem that a great success.

There are sometimes some clever folk at the helm in these companies and that’s why they get paid so well.

As with all success though, there will be some casualties, but hopefully they will be kept to a minimum.

Only time will tell.

exdirtfarmer

Enthusiast II

They wont be turning any more devices off, they just may not allow them on the same network as the NEXT GENERATION Software. Everything should just plug along as is.

There is no may about that - it is absolutely confirmed that nex gen Sonos can be in the home along with legacy products only as two separate systems that cannot intersect anywhere. Indeed, if they could do so, that is the end of every legitimate rant, and we can go back to business as usual. Who knows, they may still do it inspite of all the claims by them and their followers that this is not possible. In two days they changed their stance and pledged to keep legacy systems going with present functionality as opposed to the starting position of letting these wither on the vine, untended.

To be honest, anyone with the vision to take a long term/big picture view will understand that having legacy products alive and kicking vigorously even at a frozen functionality, but in the same play pen as nex gen Sonos is a far more substantial testimonial to the uniqueness of Sonos, more than it was before this event, when the claim of Sonos to be so where backward compatibility is concerned hadn’t been truly tested. If it is just a matter of cost, that is an investment that will pay off many times over with future sales from both existing and new owners. If the only reason to not do this is because it is impractical, a visionary leader would work with his team to make it practical. The truly hard part here has already been achieved - to build products that can match their audiophile cousins for longevity.

Instead a myopic view that...getting into rant mode, so I will stop here!

@Kumar

Sorry, I made a slip with the words which make a huge difference. I meant to say System not Network. Huge difference. Apologies.

“they just may not allow them on the same System as the NEXT GENERATION Software.”

Current SONOS stance is NO, but maybe after all the feedback they change their stance. Personally I can’t see it happening.

It would be Ludicrous if the Legacy and Modern could not coexist on the same network, running on different SONOS system. Come to think of it Wireless may get crowded. ugh.

I agree with your points. They have proven in the past that CR100 / CR200 can happily exist in the system running on older firmware. It was cumbersome to add my CR100 to the 8.4 System, It required High Level Support to do some trickery during the pairing process. It still functions today. I move to current software and the CR100 is DONE. They decide what components can co-exist and whether they will support it. Once it gets to cumbersome, they drop support.

From their perspective it looks like they decided the ‘mixed system with modern and legacy’ was holding things back and would not be supportable.

I would love to collect a used CR200 for my Legacy SONOS museum but I fear I would not be able to get it connected and working on my version. Support would understandably, refuse to help.

I think there will be more clarification about the new Legacy Software and how it will be implemented/delivered in the coming weeks. I won’t speculate further.

Powered by Firmware/Software 8.4 with Classic Blue Desktop Controller + CR100 + Ipod Dock + Homeseer 3 Sonos UPNP Plugin by dcorsus

C

chevsky

Contributor I

My first impression of this announcement was actually positive.

That’’s because my original experience with the Sonos system was negative. I purchased a ZP100 and wanted to use it strictly as a local music player, reading music from a NAS and local android phone. I only turn on the ZP100 occasionally, but EVERY TIME it would not allow me to play music--it claimed there was a software update, and gave me no option to defer. I eventually decided it was a failed experiment and stuffed it in a closet.

Does anyone know what to expect as far as… Will I be able to turn on the ZP100 and just use it? Or will I get constant nags about buying modern equipment, “you are out of support”, etc.?

I fully get that: 1) this player can stream from Internet services, and those [might someday] change their data stream formats thus affecting that feature, and 2) that Sonos, by forcing the updates, will have less contact with end users on tech support issues (force the update rather than field phone calls and tickets and inform the user they need to update), and 3) model the ecosystem so that they can push their new features/spyware without push-back. Really, Sonos should have made the updates optional (No, all attempts to disable checking failed -- many calls to tech support, etc -- perhaps earlier firmware allowed disabling updates, but I came in late in the history and it simply wasn’t an option), with a detailed list of changes so that Internet radio streamers could jump on board if it was important to them.

So, I see this dropping support for legacy equip as a win ONLY if Sonos promises to issue a final firmware that lets me use this device as a local player (and Internet, as long as stations don’t change -- alas, it would take much to design the firmware to use an indexing service), not continually checking in with the mothership, not nagging me to buy new units, not pumping my listening statistics up to their marketing database, etc. I just want a sophisticated, non-evolving, local music system, where I can use it COMPLETELY disconnected from Sonos.com.

A

amun

I just want a sophisticated, non-evolving, local music system, where I can use it COMPLETELY disconnected from Sonos.com.

You have been able to do that for a while… Just get the device stable,then lock it off from updates and the internet (if you don’t want to use external streaming at all).

E

edamame

Trending Lyricist I

If you want a similar set up in its concept, go ahead and buy the Sonos amp. Or, if you can find an unbricked one, a used Connect Amp as long as your speakers are able to deliver with the 55 watts that the amp delivers.

But in both cases, the Sonos controller interface is a must. If you despise that as you say, you have to also give up obtaining grouped play for this new zone with the play 5 units.

Wanting music storage in such a system starts getting complicated though. Other than that, it should be quite feasible, although since I don't know winamp I can't offer specifics.

Ty for the reply. Unfortunately, using the sonos controller is sort of a deal breaker for me. I think I would rather go wired then having to endure sonos controller again. Winamp is fast, effortless and customizable. I really miss the control over my music lists and how I can drag and drop songs into the current play list. It even searches for duplicates…..wow, can you imagine that. (sarcasm). I would post a screen shot of it, but it might be out of topic.

R

Ralpfocus

Prodigy III

Thank you Kumar & Ken for your thoughts it would still be good for @Ryan S to provide a definitive answer to the question “Post May can I purchase an existing modern Sonos product and add it to a legacy environment”. If the answer is yes then the Brexit options are wider and from a Sonos point of view it means the potential for a revenue stream of a few more years from customers with a legacy environment.

My guess is that there will be a Software release (call it 10.99) that will be required to run the legacy environment so that Sonos can keep everything as simple as possible. Sonos could then release new products that are capable of running 10.99 but without any of the new features available in 11x onward (E.G a Sonos Show with a screen, that when connected to the legacy the screen is just blank).

This still does not meet my desired solution but would go a long way to making this Brexit more palatable.

E

edamame

Trending Lyricist I

Regarding getting used equipment to fill in holes in your system….how can you tell if it has been put into recycle mode?

What happens in this process? Do users actually have to return the speaker (or whatever) to sonos to get the 30% off or could the user put it into recycle mode to get the 30 % off and then sell that item on ebay etc.

E

edamame

Trending Lyricist I

My guess is that there will be a Software release (call it 10.99) that will be required to run the legacy environment so that Sonos can keep everything as simple as possible. Sonos could then release new products that are capable of running 10.99 but without any of the new features available in 11x onward. That still does not meet my desired solution but would go a long way to making this Brexit more palatable.

I dont see it working any other way to be honest. And someone asked about using equipment in both legacy and modern systems….I dont think this would be work because of the software version would be different. Wouldnt a legacy system have to be fully separate from a modern one. This would means having multiple copies of items. Seems far simpler but hella expensive. If only the versioning system was not engineered to it.,,that would fix alot of problems.

A

andy_120

Enthusiast II

If you want a similar set up in its concept, go ahead and buy the Sonos amp. Or, if you can find an unbricked one, a used Connect Amp as long as your speakers are able to deliver with the 55 watts that the amp delivers.

But in both cases, the Sonos controller interface is a must. If you despise that as you say, you have to also give up obtaining grouped play for this new zone with the play 5 units.

Wanting music storage in such a system starts getting complicated though. Other than that, it should be quite feasible, although since I don't know winamp I can't offer specifics.

Ty for the reply. Unfortunately, using the sonos controller is sort of a deal breaker for me. I think I would rather go wired then having to endure sonos controller again. Winamp is fast, effortless and customizable. I really miss the control over my music lists and how I can drag and drop songs into the current play list. It even searches for duplicates…..wow, can you imagine that. (sarcasm). I would post a screen shot of it, but it might be out of topic.

With regard to the sonos controller. I used to have 4 of the cr200 all were replaced at least twice with the dreaded dead screen issue, so a return to using sonos controllers is also a no no for me. In fact all 4 were taken back by sonos uk via my dealer at the time with a full refund of there cost as they clearly weren't fit for purpose. As to the current issue it could be claimed the same applies and if it comes to pass that sonos does not seriously rethink its stance then I'm going to do the same with my legacy items.

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