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Add new components to old S1 system after S2 launch.

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73 replies

Smilja

I’ve read on this community that S2 will be released June 8. That’s the day after tomorrow.

»And the world is like an apple whirling silently in space, Like the circles that you find in the windmills of your mind.« (›Windmills Of Your Mind‹ [1967]. Music by Michel Legrand ; English lyrics written by Alan & Marilyn Bergman)
L
Userlevel 3
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So i have one legacy unit that i am updating with a new Sonos 5 , but Sonos are not going to get that unit to me before the new S2 app launches on Monday, so what do people think the best way forward is ? I think i will take the legacy unit offline tomorrow and then switch the other S2 compliant  units over to the S2 app, then when the new Sonos 5 turns up this week just add it to the system. I dont want to find that i have accidentally split the system and then go through the hassle of trying to get all the units linked again , i was hoping that Sonos might have released some guidance about this before they released the app it would have been helpful! 

Airgetlam

Why update to S2 before you get the new device? Is there some new feature you can’t just wait on?

Bruce
S
Userlevel 7
Badge +15

Total agree.

Unfortunately, Sonos have given pretty much no information on how ‘we', the customers, will actually do the split/update in advance.

If we actually can't move an S1/S2 device between the two ecosystems then I can see lots of users seeing the new, shiny S2 software and doing the upgrade to their speaker - not knowing they can't use it any more with the other speakers in their system.

I really don't see why Sonos couldn't have told us in advance how it will all work.  Maybe as part of an S2 install it will see all of your speakers and explain what will happen and ask you to choose which speakers to upgrade and the ramifications of your decision?

They've not made it public and not responded to requests for this information. :-(

Ken_Griffiths

Not sure if either of these two support documents may help at all, but perhaps worth a read anyway...

https://support.sonos.com/s/article/4786

https://support.sonos.com/s/article/4824

 

B

Does anyone know if any Sonos products currently compatible with S2 will at some point in the future become non-compatible?

 

I have 5 Play 1s in my setup, 2 of them paired with a gen-2 sub. I can see Play 1s being next on the list for becoming legacy - would they mean they stop working with S2? This would mean my sub pairing broke too. 
 

I’ve read that you can’t move speakers from S2 to S1 though, so I suppose they wouldn’t be able to do that unless they made the Play 1s completely useless, which I don’t think they’d do would they?

pwt
Userlevel 7
Badge +20

Does anyone know if any Sonos products currently compatible with S2 will at some point in the future become non-compatible?

...

I’ve read that you can’t move speakers from S2 to S1 though, so I suppose they wouldn’t be able to do that unless they made the Play 1s completely useless, which I don’t think they’d do would they?

It’s more likely that -- at some point in the future -- there will be a Sonos S3 update that only newer devices will be able to support.

FWIW, it is currently possible to remove a speaker from an S2 system and add it to an S1 system, via a factory reset. This does not apply to the new products (Arc, Five, Sub G3) which will not run on S1.

4 x P:5 | Sub | 4 x P:1 | 3 x Connect | 2 x Boost | Connect:Amp | 2 x One | Amp | Move | Port
B

Does anyone know if any Sonos products currently compatible with S2 will at some point in the future become non-compatible?

...

I’ve read that you can’t move speakers from S2 to S1 though, so I suppose they wouldn’t be able to do that unless they made the Play 1s completely useless, which I don’t think they’d do would they?

It’s more likely that -- at some point in the future -- there will be a Sonos S3 update that only newer devices will be able to support.

FWIW, it is currently possible to remove a speaker from an S2 system and add it to an S1 system, via a factory reset. This does not apply to the new products (Arc, Five, Sub G3) which will not run on S1.

Ah the factory reset thing is v good to know. It de-risks the upgrade for me as it means I could, if I had to, downgrade everything back to S1 at some point in the future. It also means you don’t have to worry if a pre-2020 speaker is S1 or S2 if buying second hand. 
 

Sonos specifically write In their guidance that you can’t move a speaker from S2 to S1 - but I suppose this reloads the S1 firmware onto the device so acts as a workaround?

pwt
Userlevel 7
Badge +20

Ah the factory reset thing is v good to know. It de-risks the upgrade for me as it means I could, if I had to, downgrade everything back to S1 at some point in the future. It also means you don’t have to worry if a pre-2020 speaker is S1 or S2 if buying second hand. 

Sonos specifically write In their guidance that you can’t move a speaker from S2 to S1 - but I suppose this reloads the S1 firmware onto the device so acts as a workaround?

That’s why I said ‘currently’. As you note, the Sonos guidance states that it’s not possible to go S2 → S1, but it turns out that it is. Whether this remains the case is to be determined; Sonos could disable it.

4 x P:5 | Sub | 4 x P:1 | 3 x Connect | 2 x Boost | Connect:Amp | 2 x One | Amp | Move | Port
J

I can’t add an extra S1 device to my existing S1 speaker using the S1 app…

I have the iOS S1 and S2 apps installed.

Removed all my newer S2 devices from the network and unplugged them from power. So now I have an old Play:5 S1 running fine with the S1 app. So far so good.

Next, I want to add another S1 device that I borrowed from a friend.

This is what I do:

  • Start the S1 app
  • Settings, System
  • + Add Product
  • Before I can even choose which product, the S1 app says: Sonos app needs updating. Tap the button below to go to the app store. This leads to the App Store S2 app.
  • But, I already have both S1 and S2 apps installed, last version.
  • So, I’m stuck.

Any ideas?

 

B

Does anyone know if any Sonos products currently compatible with S2 will at some point in the future become non-compatible?

...

I’ve read that you can’t move speakers from S2 to S1 though, so I suppose they wouldn’t be able to do that unless they made the Play 1s completely useless, which I don’t think they’d do would they?

It’s more likely that -- at some point in the future -- there will be a Sonos S3 update that only newer devices will be able to support.

FWIW, it is currently possible to remove a speaker from an S2 system and add it to an S1 system, via a factory reset. This does not apply to the new products (Arc, Five, Sub G3) which will not run on S1.


I called Sonos today and they said that any device that currently works on S2 will always work on S2. So no worries about devices getting stuck on S2. 
 

I also asked about the downgrade work around - he started by saying it couldn’t be done but then conceded he hadn’t tried and it wasn’t guidance they gave. 
 

But knowing my Play 1s will never stop working on S2 is good enough for me for now I think. 

G
Userlevel 2

“I called Sonos today and they said that any device that currently works on S2 will always work on S2. So no worries about devices getting stuck on S2.”

 

:rofl: I gave up believing what they “say” a long time ago. I remember when the app was first introduced years ago they told everyone on the forum to relax, that tthey had no intention of ever discontinuing the standalone Controller. Five’ll get ya ten the S3 is already in the early planning stages to be released when cash infusion will be urgently needed. And how does one go about getting a large influx of new cash from a stable and content user base?

 

 

D

 

It’s more likely that -- at some point in the future -- there will be a Sonos S3 update that only newer devices will be able to support.

FWIW, it is currently possible to remove a speaker from an S2 system and add it to an S1 system, via a factory reset. This does not apply to the new products (Arc, Five, Sub G3) which will not run on S1.

I have a Play 1 speaker that was upgraded to S2 (by accident as I thought S2 was just the latest Sonos app). It is the only speaker on a system at our cottage, which we brought from our primary residence. I discovered that parts of our system at our primary residence will not work on S2, so I attempted to get rid of the S2 controller and replace it with the old S1. And that's when the trouble began

I tried re-adding the Play 1 to an S1 network. Couldn’t find the speaker. So I factory reset it. Went through what looked like was going to be a succesful “set up new network” process, until the app said “this product is only compatible with the S2 app". I suspect that either there was a firmware upgrade to this speaker that remains even after factory reset (seems doubtful), or as an earlier poster said, the S1 app is checking for firmware updates and even the factory reset speaker is now only ever able to work on S2. 

Any ideas? I have a feeling I am going to have to use the S2 app at our cottage, and run a split system back home when we bring the speaker back.

 

J

I managed to fix my issue (using both S1 and S2 speakers in one network):

  • disconnect all your Sonos devices from power
  • uninstall S1 and S2 apps
  • connect one S1 speaker to power / UTP cable
  • install S1 app
  • try to connect to existing speaker
  • if that does not work: reset S1 speaker to factory defaults (google it for your speaker type how to)
  • add a new S1 speaker
  • add another S1 speaker if you have repeating the above 3 steps
  • now you have a working S1 setup
  • then install the S2 app
  • add S2 speakers in the same manner.

This way, my living room has 3 S2 speakers, and my home office has S1.

 

 

B

Once S2 is released, will I still be able to buy new speakers and add them to a legacy system?

 

I know that every time I add a new speaker to my existing system, it forces me to update every controller and speaker to the latest version before bringing the new speaker online.  (That’s how I lost the ability to use old controllers, even though we don’t use any features that weren’t there 10 years ago.)

 

 

 

Currently this is not possible.  I just got a new Play1 and wanted to add it to my existing system of three other Play1s running S1 controller.  When I go to Settings>Add Device it forces me to an upgrade to S2 before I can add the new Play1 speaker.   As far as I can tell, there is currently no way around this which runs contrary to what Sonos indicated regarding being able to continue to use an existing S1 network.

 

While all of my gear is technically S2 compatible, I have heard way too many horror stories about the new S2 controller and I would prefer to wait a few more months while Sonos gets the bugs worked out before upgrading.  It looks like I may have to wait two more months before I can use my new speaker too...

 

D
Badge

Someone earlier on, 4 months ago, quoted Sonos support saying - 

After the release of S2, it will no longer be possible to add a newly purchased current S1/S2 component to an S1-only system.

And sadly this appears to be the case - when I try to ‘add a product’ - in this case Play1:, new-style speakers, to an S1 system, it is impossible - I need to update the system, which cannot do and don’t want to do, since I have ‘legacy’ speakers running and cannot afford to replace them - nor do I want to be bullied into replacing them, nor have the complexity of running two systems - and in any case, with a ‘legacy’ Bridge, what’s the solution there ? How many formerly loyal customers have Sonos infuriated and lost by trying to behave like Apple ?

controlav
Userlevel 7
Badge +23

I can still add devices to my S1 system. I have two S1 systems and one S2 system on the same network.

I can run the Sonos S1 app, ignore the “S2 is available” prompt, go to Add Product, scan, and find the new item.

Make sure you are running the Sonos S1 app, and make sure that it (and your S1 systems) are all up-to-date before attempting to add more devices.

Author of the leading independent Sonos app for Windows, the only Sonos app for Xbox, and a Sonos app for iOS
Airgetlam

However, those components can not be a Sonos Arc, a Sonos Sub (gen 3) or a Sonos Five. All of those devices require the ‘definitions’ for set up that are only in S2. 

Bruce
D
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Thanks to both for clear replies - however, when I got to ‘add product’ within S1 on iOS, it is greyed-out and tells me I need to update to the newest system/app ; if i do that, I will need two controllers, two systems and will (for example) have problems with Spotify and also with switching from one room to another. I’m awaiting a reply from Spotify, but we are currently told to expect a 7-day wait. I think that tells you something about how badly Sonos is working these days. Basically they are continuing to try, even after the PR and reputational disaster of January, to force customers to upgrade software and speakers and to spend more money. If you own old / ‘legacy’(sic) Play 5s, this is a particularly bitter blow.  If I could afford to, I would ditch the whole system, after 10+ years and eight speakers. Will I get a solution from Sonos 7+ days from now ? I’m not holding my breath.

controlav
Userlevel 7
Badge +23

It now sounds like your iOS device is too old for the Sonos software, or your S1 system just needs a regular update (not a switch to S2). A screenshot for the update prompt might make that clearer.

Author of the leading independent Sonos app for Windows, the only Sonos app for Xbox, and a Sonos app for iOS
D
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Replying to controlav - thank you for your intervention there - the message that comes up via iOS on old IPhone is ‘System Update needed - update your system to the latest Sonos system software. You may have limited functionality until the update is complete.’ - That’s not a model of clarity, but it reads to me as though it wants me to update to S2 rather than (how?) update to a newer version of S1 ; is there even such a thing as a newer version of S1 ? I am *deeply* reluctant to hit ‘update’ in case that then means my bridge + above all Play5s are then rendered useless. The system info says that I’m on 11.1 for everything that’s working. I have two orphaned Play1:s which don’t appear on the system since I can’t add them. It’s all reminiscent of the bad old days of computing, with the endless updating, incompatibility etc. For the moment I’ve moved a single working Play1 from another room, and will either give away or sell the orphaned speakers at some point unless there is a solution. And - goes without saying? - use the Sonos that’s working, and then never buy or recommend Sonos again. Once bitten… Thanks for your intervention and advice. I don’t know how to do a ‘regular update’ of S1 that would allow me to avoid the risk of being railroaded into S2 ; perhaps you do.  If so, thank you, and thanks for the time you’ve already spent thinking and messaging about this.

controlav
Userlevel 7
Badge +23

You can’t be accidentally upgraded to S2 unless you have installed the S2 app. So long as you keep that off your device you’ll be fine taking any update from the S1 app.

Author of the leading independent Sonos app for Windows, the only Sonos app for Xbox, and a Sonos app for iOS
D
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Controlav - now *that* is reassuring and worth knowing - so hitting ‘update’ within S1 will not take me into S2? It does say ‘update to the latest system software’ - previously I had assumed that meant S2 (which is the latest system software, and S1 isn’t). If the update message read ‘update to the latest version of S1’ that would be clearer and more reassuring. Thanks for the info.

controlav
Userlevel 7
Badge +23

Like I said: without you installing the S2 app (which is called “Sonos” now) your hardware cannot be dragged into S2.

Author of the leading independent Sonos app for Windows, the only Sonos app for Xbox, and a Sonos app for iOS
D
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Controlav - I bravely / recklessly hit ‘update’ in iOS on IPhone and it tells me no update is needed. Orphaned speakers still invisible. However, I still have music in four rooms, so I may well wait and see what Sonos support have to say ; community advice has been fast, helpful and interesting, though, I must say.

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