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Add new components to old S1 system after S2 launch.

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73 replies

jgatie

Once S2 is released, will I still be able to buy new speakers and add them to a legacy system?

 

I know that every time I add a new speaker to my existing system, it forces me to update every controller and speaker to the latest version before bringing the new speaker online.  (That’s how I lost the ability to use old controllers, even though we don’t use any features that weren’t there 10 years ago.)

It would cost thousands to replace my legacy speakers (that are still working well), and our most common usage case is “party mode” with everything linked together and in sync, so a split system is not appealing.

We’ve been working our way through the facility, buying another speaker every six months.  Do I have to hurry up and buy the rest of the rooms before June? 

 

 

You won’t be able to add new S2 based devices like the Five or Arc, but you can add items that are for sale now.  

Smilja

Moving between S1 & S2 at will would proof itself a nightmare for Sonos Support (people getting confused on which fork which device is currently running on, getting stuck during the up-/downgrade process and so on). Most likely a game Sonos isn’t going to play.

»And the world is like an apple whirling silently in space, Like the circles that you find in the windmills of your mind.« (›Windmills Of Your Mind‹ [1967]. Music by Michel Legrand ; English lyrics written by Alan & Marilyn Bergman)
S
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Update: 
I installed older version of Sonos S1 controller 11.2.2 to be the same version as speakers reported. Now button “Add product” is active, but after clicking on it anyway it forces to upgrade to S2 app from Google Play (headache)

 

Dear Sonos, you wrote 

“To be clear, if you buy a S1/S2 compatible device (like a Sonos Amp, for example) you can add it to a S1 or S2 system. “

Really? HOW?

S
Userlevel 7
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Technically going from S1 to S2 is not an upgrade I would suggest - it'sa total change.  So the other way is similar.

Or are people saying that if I choose to keep my Play 5 Gen 2 in an S1 setup, separate to a split S2 setup that I can't move it to the S2 one in the future - or that S1 to S2 is an upgrade and the other way around isn't - even though it's completely different software?

I understand the comments about support but think that's easy for Sonos to ask a customer and would also be included in any diagnostic information anyway.

I think support is not always at the fore of Sonos thinking anyway - especially with regard to having different components and specs for identically names products and even product names themselves..?

T

SAME with me and my legacy 5x part SONOS System.

The try to FORCE ME TO UPDATE … FiNALLY had to RESET and INSTALL the hole system again..

!!! NEVER AGAIN SONOS !!!

Corry P
Userlevel 7
Badge +18

Hi @tonvandervelden 

If you downloaded and installed the S2 app on your desktop and updated your system to S2, then all S1 apps should be uninstalled from all controllers that connect to the system (unless they are used to connect to other systems, in which case you should reset the S1 apps).

I say again that there is no way to update to S2 without the S2 app being downloaded at some point. If you don’t want S2, don’t download it.

Once you’ve updated to S2, if you connect with an S1 app, it will ask you to update. Don’t do this. Remove the S1 app if you update your entire system to S2.

If you are having trouble connecting to Sonos, or one of your apps is always asking for the update, I recommend you get in touch with our technical support team, who have tools at their disposal that will allow them to give you advice specific to your Sonos system.

"Common sense is the collection of prejudices acquired by age eighteen." - Albert Einstein
J

Technically going from S1 to S2 is not an upgrade I would suggest - it'sa total change.  So the other way is similar.

Or are people saying that if I choose to keep my Play 5 Gen 2 in an S1 setup, separate to a split S2 setup that I can't move it to the S2 one in the future - or that S1 to S2 is an upgrade and the other way around isn't - even though it's completely different software?

That may be what some people are saying, but we are all just guessing.  I share your view (if I understand you correctly) that you can't think of upgrades or downgrades in the context of moving between S1 and S2. 

My hope and best guess is that it will be possible to factory reset speakers that are compatible with both S1 and S2, and add them to whichever system you want them in. They will always have to be added to the latest version of the S1 or S2 software. 

Maybe that is just wishful thinking.....

F
Userlevel 3

 

So after the release of S2, presumably with fairly immediate effect, unless Sonos sells the current array of non-S2-only ‘modern product’ devices with options of either S1 or S2, then:

  1. It will be impossible to add a new non-S2-only ‘modern product’ device to an S1 system and
  2. It will be impossible to replace any dying/damaged/lost/stolen S1 system ‘modern product’ device

unless one can unearth some old ‘modern product’ stock that was manufactured and sent out before S2 was released, or is found second-hand.  Or they then HAVE to split their system, losing their all-room capability.

 

Seems people who are forced to maintain S1 systems due to the number/proportion of S1 devices they own will, pretty soon after June 2020, be unable to expand their systems at all, and won’t be able to replace any dead devices either…..without resorting to the second-hand market.

 

There must be quite a lot of people in this situation who will be hoping that S1 will still be an option to purchase, or regrade to, on non-S2-only devices after June.  Does Sonos intend to accommodate them, or is the S1/S2 differentiation and split capability really just a short-term sop in the march to enforcing uptake of S2 and driving more upgrade-entire-system purchases as soon as possible (albeit without the dire compulsory-bricking-of-replaced-devices policy that had to be rescinded after the outcry) - just not quite as soon as previously intended in the pre-outcry business plan?

 

 

K

 

I say again that there is no way to update to S2 without the S2 app being downloaded at some point. If you don’t want S2, don’t download it.

 

@Corry P : I get the quoted - to avoid inadvertent use of the S2 app - but are you saying that if the S2 app even just exists on the device, updating Sonos from within the S1 app will cause the units to jump to S2?! How can one then run split systems???

@tonvandervelden : I suspect that someone in your place inadvertently used the S2 app, and caused this unwanted “jump” to S2 in your units. Unless, we get a confirmation that just the presence of the S2 app on the desktop is enough to make this jump happen.

S
Userlevel 7
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That may be what some people are saying, but we are all just guessing.  I share your view (if I understand you correctly) that you can't think of upgrades or downgrades in the context of moving between S1 and S2. 

Yes, you understand me correctly (reading it back isn’t clear as I intended..

My hope and best guess is that it will be possible to factory reset speakers that are compatible with both S1 and S2, and add them to whichever system you want them in. They will always have to be added to the latest version of the S1 or S2 software.

My hope too.  I don’t see the issue in resetting and then adding to a ‘new’ system.  If it’s compatible with the System (S1 or S2) it will install the software required for it to run.

 

B

Does anyone know if any Sonos products currently compatible with S2 will at some point in the future become non-compatible?

 

I have 5 Play 1s in my setup, 2 of them paired with a gen-2 sub. I can see Play 1s being next on the list for becoming legacy - would they mean they stop working with S2? This would mean my sub pairing broke too. 
 

I’ve read that you can’t move speakers from S2 to S1 though, so I suppose they wouldn’t be able to do that unless they made the Play 1s completely useless, which I don’t think they’d do would they?

controlav
Userlevel 7
Badge +23

It now sounds like your iOS device is too old for the Sonos software, or your S1 system just needs a regular update (not a switch to S2). A screenshot for the update prompt might make that clearer.

Author of the leading independent Sonos app for Windows, the only Sonos app for Xbox, and a Sonos app for iOS
pwt
Userlevel 7
Badge +20

Does anyone know if any Sonos products currently compatible with S2 will at some point in the future become non-compatible?

...

I’ve read that you can’t move speakers from S2 to S1 though, so I suppose they wouldn’t be able to do that unless they made the Play 1s completely useless, which I don’t think they’d do would they?

It’s more likely that -- at some point in the future -- there will be a Sonos S3 update that only newer devices will be able to support.

FWIW, it is currently possible to remove a speaker from an S2 system and add it to an S1 system, via a factory reset. This does not apply to the new products (Arc, Five, Sub G3) which will not run on S1.

4 x P:5 | Sub | 4 x P:1 | 3 x Connect | 2 x Boost | Connect:Amp | 2 x One | Amp | Move | Port
D
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Replying to controlav - thank you for your intervention there - the message that comes up via iOS on old IPhone is ‘System Update needed - update your system to the latest Sonos system software. You may have limited functionality until the update is complete.’ - That’s not a model of clarity, but it reads to me as though it wants me to update to S2 rather than (how?) update to a newer version of S1 ; is there even such a thing as a newer version of S1 ? I am *deeply* reluctant to hit ‘update’ in case that then means my bridge + above all Play5s are then rendered useless. The system info says that I’m on 11.1 for everything that’s working. I have two orphaned Play1:s which don’t appear on the system since I can’t add them. It’s all reminiscent of the bad old days of computing, with the endless updating, incompatibility etc. For the moment I’ve moved a single working Play1 from another room, and will either give away or sell the orphaned speakers at some point unless there is a solution. And - goes without saying? - use the Sonos that’s working, and then never buy or recommend Sonos again. Once bitten… Thanks for your intervention and advice. I don’t know how to do a ‘regular update’ of S1 that would allow me to avoid the risk of being railroaded into S2 ; perhaps you do.  If so, thank you, and thanks for the time you’ve already spent thinking and messaging about this.

B

Does anyone know if any Sonos products currently compatible with S2 will at some point in the future become non-compatible?

...

I’ve read that you can’t move speakers from S2 to S1 though, so I suppose they wouldn’t be able to do that unless they made the Play 1s completely useless, which I don’t think they’d do would they?

It’s more likely that -- at some point in the future -- there will be a Sonos S3 update that only newer devices will be able to support.

FWIW, it is currently possible to remove a speaker from an S2 system and add it to an S1 system, via a factory reset. This does not apply to the new products (Arc, Five, Sub G3) which will not run on S1.

Ah the factory reset thing is v good to know. It de-risks the upgrade for me as it means I could, if I had to, downgrade everything back to S1 at some point in the future. It also means you don’t have to worry if a pre-2020 speaker is S1 or S2 if buying second hand. 
 

Sonos specifically write In their guidance that you can’t move a speaker from S2 to S1 - but I suppose this reloads the S1 firmware onto the device so acts as a workaround?

pwt
Userlevel 7
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Ah the factory reset thing is v good to know. It de-risks the upgrade for me as it means I could, if I had to, downgrade everything back to S1 at some point in the future. It also means you don’t have to worry if a pre-2020 speaker is S1 or S2 if buying second hand. 

Sonos specifically write In their guidance that you can’t move a speaker from S2 to S1 - but I suppose this reloads the S1 firmware onto the device so acts as a workaround?

That’s why I said ‘currently’. As you note, the Sonos guidance states that it’s not possible to go S2 → S1, but it turns out that it is. Whether this remains the case is to be determined; Sonos could disable it.

4 x P:5 | Sub | 4 x P:1 | 3 x Connect | 2 x Boost | Connect:Amp | 2 x One | Amp | Move | Port
D

Danny, perhaps the error is in how I referred to the controller in my post.  I mean to refer to whatever software you’re using.

Since the first (but not last) time I lost the ability to use an old device as a controller, I no longer perform regular system updates until I have no choice.  If you already are on the latest version you may never experience this…. When I add a new speaker, just after selecting “add Product”, I am prompted to update the controller to the latest version.  The options are upgrade or cancel, and if you cancel you exit out of the addition process.  Only after the upgrade completes are you able to begin the addition process, during which it brings the new addition and the existing speakers up to date.

 

I would love for someone to come along next month and prove that I misunderstood tech support.

J

I can’t add an extra S1 device to my existing S1 speaker using the S1 app…

I have the iOS S1 and S2 apps installed.

Removed all my newer S2 devices from the network and unplugged them from power. So now I have an old Play:5 S1 running fine with the S1 app. So far so good.

Next, I want to add another S1 device that I borrowed from a friend.

This is what I do:

  • Start the S1 app
  • Settings, System
  • + Add Product
  • Before I can even choose which product, the S1 app says: Sonos app needs updating. Tap the button below to go to the app store. This leads to the App Store S2 app.
  • But, I already have both S1 and S2 apps installed, last version.
  • So, I’m stuck.

Any ideas?

 

T

An S1 system will not update itself to S2 without you (or someone on your network) installing the S2 app. If you want your system to be in one piece (all rooms available on one app) and you have both S1 only devices and those willing to run on S2, don’t install the S2 app. If you’re willing to have a split system, with some rooms on S1 and some on S2, the upgrade should be done from the S1 app - Settings » System » System Tools » System Compatibility Check. After this, your S1 products will be reset and you will need to setup a new system on S1 consisting only of your S1 only devices. This is so your S1 and S2 units do not consider themselves as parts of the same system.”

in my experience this is incorrect. 

I have the S1 desktop app, and was running a system on S1. The system included several Play 1’s that COULD but dont run on S2. I upgraded the system from within the S1 desktop app and with one smooth and highly frustrating move all my Play1’s were updated to S2 and dropped out of my system. 

still not fixed. 

I tried to factory reset the Play1’s but when i wnt to add them to the system the software (from my phone, also S1) insists on upgrading them first. which does not work. 

gnashing teeth!

D
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Controlav - now *that* is reassuring and worth knowing - so hitting ‘update’ within S1 will not take me into S2? It does say ‘update to the latest system software’ - previously I had assumed that meant S2 (which is the latest system software, and S1 isn’t). If the update message read ‘update to the latest version of S1’ that would be clearer and more reassuring. Thanks for the info.

controlav
Userlevel 7
Badge +23

Like I said: without you installing the S2 app (which is called “Sonos” now) your hardware cannot be dragged into S2.

Author of the leading independent Sonos app for Windows, the only Sonos app for Xbox, and a Sonos app for iOS
K

 

I have the S1 desktop app, and was running a system on S1. The system included several Play 1’s that COULD but dont run on S2. I upgraded the system from within the S1 desktop app and with one smooth and highly frustrating move all my Play1’s were updated to S2 and dropped out of my system. 

 

@Corry P : care to comment? I do not see how this can happen to anyone...

D
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Controlav - progress report ! And how ! Many thanks for your help and advice ; the root of the problem turned out to be that there was a version mis-match between the controller(s) and the speakers. All are now on 11.2.3, and safely on S1, and I have music etc back in 5 rooms, not four, and a stereo pair (the previously-lost orphans) in the kitchen.  I learned, thanks to you + two others on community in another thread, that you can update within S1 without being railroaded into S2 ; a useful lesson. Thank you so much for advice, patience and clarity. Bye + thanks !

D
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Happy ending on this one, thanks to two discoveries and help from people on community - importance of making sure that the controller and the speaker firmware are identically-numbered versions ; it’s not enough for both to be 11 - in my case, they all had to be 11.2.3.  

This worked via system and update once I was told that when the iOS update warning said ‘newest system software’ it wasn’t about to force Sonos 2 on me ; on the third attempt I was able to get it to update controllers + speakers all to the same version. Yes, as someone pointed out...it was a version incompatibility problem. I’ll know better next time. Orphaned speakers now...resurrected (mixing metaphors here). Took a while, but finally fixed, thanks to helpful people on the community.

Smilja

@Dougal_1, you’re welcome! :slight_smile:

»And the world is like an apple whirling silently in space, Like the circles that you find in the windmills of your mind.« (›Windmills Of Your Mind‹ [1967]. Music by Michel Legrand ; English lyrics written by Alan & Marilyn Bergman)
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