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Add new components to old S1 system after S2 launch.

D

Once S2 is released, will I still be able to buy new speakers and add them to a legacy system?

 

I know that every time I add a new speaker to my existing system, it forces me to update every controller and speaker to the latest version before bringing the new speaker online.  (That’s how I lost the ability to use old controllers, even though we don’t use any features that weren’t there 10 years ago.)

It would cost thousands to replace my legacy speakers (that are still working well), and our most common usage case is “party mode” with everything linked together and in sync, so a split system is not appealing.

We’ve been working our way through the facility, buying another speaker every six months.  Do I have to hurry up and buy the rest of the rooms before June? 

 

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Best answer by Corry P 23 February 2021, 14:30

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73 replies

J

My expectation is (and of course this is pure speculation and we will have to wait and see), that S1 and S2 will be totally different systems.

Within a system, you will be able to add new products (possibly from a limited range in S1) if and only if you are on the latest firmware for that system.  The prompt to update to the latest firmware will continue to appear in both systems.  But you will not be bumped up from S1 to S2 because that is a completely different system with different firmware.

The updates in the case of S1 will be just bug fixes and security patches, so controllers are extremely unlikely to go out of date with S1 updates.

On S2, system developments will continue to mean that controller devices and operating systems will eventually become only partially supported and then unsupported, as happens now,

I would nor be surprised if the S2 versioning restarted at 1.0, with S1 continuing from the existing numbering.  I don’t see any reason for any link between the two sets of version numbers.

Of course i could be completely wrong.

arcadelt
Userlevel 3
Badge +7

My understanding is similar to @John B that the two systems will be different and that if you have chosen to stay entirely in the S1 ecosystem that your components will only ever upgrade to the highest version of that ecosystem, irrespective of whether they are "modern” or "legacy" products. I guess the bigger question is where would you be sourcing these new components from, because after May 2020 any new products will only be S2 compatible? If you are talking about new old stock (NOS), then that will eventually run out. If you meant secondhand equipment when you said “new”, then you will need to be very careful to ask the seller if they moved those components that are today defined as “modern” (for example One, Play:5 Gen 2, PlayBar) from S1 to S2. Of course, you’ll have no problems with “legacy” components (for example the Play:5 Gen 1, and early Connect and Connect: Amp)

arcadelt
Userlevel 3
Badge +7

My assumption is that devices that are both S1 and S2 compatible will be able to move between systems (possibly with a factory reset) at will.  Is that right or is there anything suggesting it will not be the case?

Sonos has never offered the ability to retrograde the OS on a device, and I would be surprised if they do under this new ecosystem construct. I don’t know that they won’t, but I’d be very surprised if a component that was upgraded to S2 would ever be able to go back into service as part of an S1 system.

Corry P
Userlevel 7
Badge +18

Hi @Kumar 

I say again that there is no way to update to S2 without the S2 app being downloaded at some point. If you don’t want S2, don’t download it.

 

@Corry P : I get the quoted - to avoid inadvertent use of the S2 app - but are you saying that if the S2 app even just exists on the device, updating Sonos from within the S1 app will cause the units to jump to S2?! How can one then run split systems???

No. I didn’t even come close to saying this. I was, as I think you correctly surmised, trying to emphasise that if you really don’t want any speakers to run S2, don’t download it. Split systems only operate successfully if after the split is made, all the S1 units and app are reset, so that they then operate on a separate Household ID from the S2 system. This is what prevents each app from updating the wrong system.

@tonvandervelden : I suspect that someone in your place inadvertently used the S2 app, and caused this unwanted “jump” to S2 in your units. Unless, we get a confirmation that just the presence of the S2 app on the desktop is enough to make this jump happen.

I think this too, especially as an S2 upgrade cannot be performed from a desktop controller.

"Common sense is the collection of prejudices acquired by age eighteen." - Albert Einstein
controlav
Userlevel 7
Badge +23

You can’t be accidentally upgraded to S2 unless you have installed the S2 app. So long as you keep that off your device you’ll be fine taking any update from the S1 app.

Author of the leading independent Sonos app for Windows, the only Sonos app for Xbox, and a Sonos app for iOS
D
Badge

Controlav - I bravely / recklessly hit ‘update’ in iOS on IPhone and it tells me no update is needed. Orphaned speakers still invisible. However, I still have music in four rooms, so I may well wait and see what Sonos support have to say ; community advice has been fast, helpful and interesting, though, I must say.

Smilja

@Dougal_1, as long the Sonos app(s) and the firmware of the speakers don’t match you won’t have full access to settings. And trust me you would want to have access to at least the ‘room settings’.

»And the world is like an apple whirling silently in space, Like the circles that you find in the windmills of your mind.« (›Windmills Of Your Mind‹ [1967]. Music by Michel Legrand ; English lyrics written by Alan & Marilyn Bergman)
melvimbe

Sad conversation with Sonos tech support (waited a long time, but wanted to get it straight from the source.)

The "am I on latest firmware" check is built into the system addition process.  The S1 controller will check for newer firmware when initiating the system addition, which will move it to S2.  And the modern S1 speakers that can take S2 will get the firmware update at the time of the addition.  It doesn't matter what they left the factory with, they move to latest version while being added to a system.

 

 

Obviously didn’t hear the conversion you had with tech support, but the above statement doesn’t make any sense to me.  I don’t see how or why an S1 controller would update a device to a version of firmware that doesn’t match it’s own firmware level and that it can’t itself control.  If this were true, every modern speaker would be updated to current S2 when the switch over happens and incapable of being in an S1 system, which Sonos had repeatedly said would not be the case.  I suspect that either the tech was mistaken or there was miscommunication somewhere.

It may be that a speaker that is already at a version higher than S1’s version level, because it was previously in an S2 system, can’t be added to an S1 system...but I highly, highly doubt that.  Most likely, the system will be able to add it, then recognize that it’s not on the version the S1 controller sees as the current correct version, and will update it accordingly.

Danny
melvimbe

I’m OK with not adding new style products.

I am worried that it will be the same as it is currently… where I’m forced into an upgrade with each addition, and that is going to mean changing  to S2

 

S1 and S2 are two different systems. You likely will be required to update to the most current version of S1, but you won’t be required to switch over to the S2 system.

Danny
arcadelt
Userlevel 3
Badge +7

However, the future units or the units that already were updating using the S2 system, they can only work using the system S2 because they will be already in a version higher than the S1 system can support.​​​​​​

As I suspected, a move from S1 to S2 is an upgrade and Sonos will not have a provision for a retrograde.

controlav
Userlevel 7
Badge +23

I can still add devices to my S1 system. I have two S1 systems and one S2 system on the same network.

I can run the Sonos S1 app, ignore the “S2 is available” prompt, go to Add Product, scan, and find the new item.

Make sure you are running the Sonos S1 app, and make sure that it (and your S1 systems) are all up-to-date before attempting to add more devices.

Author of the leading independent Sonos app for Windows, the only Sonos app for Xbox, and a Sonos app for iOS
Airgetlam

However, those components can not be a Sonos Arc, a Sonos Sub (gen 3) or a Sonos Five. All of those devices require the ‘definitions’ for set up that are only in S2. 

Bruce
D

 

It’s more likely that -- at some point in the future -- there will be a Sonos S3 update that only newer devices will be able to support.

FWIW, it is currently possible to remove a speaker from an S2 system and add it to an S1 system, via a factory reset. This does not apply to the new products (Arc, Five, Sub G3) which will not run on S1.

I have a Play 1 speaker that was upgraded to S2 (by accident as I thought S2 was just the latest Sonos app). It is the only speaker on a system at our cottage, which we brought from our primary residence. I discovered that parts of our system at our primary residence will not work on S2, so I attempted to get rid of the S2 controller and replace it with the old S1. And that's when the trouble began

I tried re-adding the Play 1 to an S1 network. Couldn’t find the speaker. So I factory reset it. Went through what looked like was going to be a succesful “set up new network” process, until the app said “this product is only compatible with the S2 app". I suspect that either there was a firmware upgrade to this speaker that remains even after factory reset (seems doubtful), or as an earlier poster said, the S1 app is checking for firmware updates and even the factory reset speaker is now only ever able to work on S2. 

Any ideas? I have a feeling I am going to have to use the S2 app at our cottage, and run a split system back home when we bring the speaker back.

 

J

I managed to fix my issue (using both S1 and S2 speakers in one network):

  • disconnect all your Sonos devices from power
  • uninstall S1 and S2 apps
  • connect one S1 speaker to power / UTP cable
  • install S1 app
  • try to connect to existing speaker
  • if that does not work: reset S1 speaker to factory defaults (google it for your speaker type how to)
  • add a new S1 speaker
  • add another S1 speaker if you have repeating the above 3 steps
  • now you have a working S1 setup
  • then install the S2 app
  • add S2 speakers in the same manner.

This way, my living room has 3 S2 speakers, and my home office has S1.

 

 

R
Userlevel 5
Badge +11

I have been understanding of the need to create an S2 but will be far less so if newly manufactured products of the current range cannot connect to an S1 system. I do realise that in due course Sonos will replace all of the current range and then it will be the second hand market only. I do have an expectation that the devices like the One and SL would have a good few years manufacturing  left but maybe I am being foolish.

 

D
Badge

Thanks to both for clear replies - however, when I got to ‘add product’ within S1 on iOS, it is greyed-out and tells me I need to update to the newest system/app ; if i do that, I will need two controllers, two systems and will (for example) have problems with Spotify and also with switching from one room to another. I’m awaiting a reply from Spotify, but we are currently told to expect a 7-day wait. I think that tells you something about how badly Sonos is working these days. Basically they are continuing to try, even after the PR and reputational disaster of January, to force customers to upgrade software and speakers and to spend more money. If you own old / ‘legacy’(sic) Play 5s, this is a particularly bitter blow.  If I could afford to, I would ditch the whole system, after 10+ years and eight speakers. Will I get a solution from Sonos 7+ days from now ? I’m not holding my breath.

S
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I just bough new Move speaker and want add it to existing S1 system (don’t won’t upgrade to S2), but S1 application forces me to update to S2 (it takes me to Google Play to install S2 app).

Add product option is not available.

I have S1 app version 11.2.5 but existing speakers are 11.2.2 , somebody above suggest it might cause the problem). How to fix it? 
When choosing S1 control app from Google Play it’s says it’s up to date (npo option to update)

I am stuck now with new speaker which cannot be added to existing sonos system (!) :((
Please help, since all this S1 - S2 Sonos issues starting making me very confused.

(I have no speaker which is only S2 compatible and has never update system to S2 or install S2 app)

Sonos support could you please help?

Airgetlam

I wouldn’t expect it to be any different than it is currently. You’d open your controller, use the “add a device” feature, and it would be sure to copy over whichever version of the software that your system is running on.

 

Bruce
M

Today our S1 apps (Android) told us that upgrade to S2 was compulsory as the S1 controller was no longer compatible with our system. Nothing has changed since it worked fine yesterday.

Is anybody else being forced to change? Given negativity I see on S2 stability I am reluctant to upgrade if I don’t have to.

All my devices are S2 compatible BTW

Mike

Ken_Griffiths

Today our S1 apps (Android) told us that upgrade to S2 was compulsory as the S1 controller was no longer compatible with our system. Nothing has changed since it worked fine yesterday.

Is anybody else being forced to change? Given negativity I see on S2 stability I am reluctant to upgrade if I don’t have to.

All my devices are S2 compatible BTW

Mike

No, I am not being forced to upgrade my S1 system here. I have a split sonos system with some devices on an S1 Household and some on an S2 Household, both systems are working separately and fine and nothing is forcing me to upgrade, even though I have devices on S1 which are compatible with S2 (such as Play:1’s for example).

 

After updates I sometimes get a banner message that there is an option to update some of my devices to S2 and a “learn more” link, but I just close that banner suggestion and stick with S1 in the separate Household.

controlav
Userlevel 7
Badge +23

Today our S1 apps (Android) told us that upgrade to S2 was compulsory as the S1 controller was no longer compatible with our system. Nothing has changed since it worked fine yesterday.

Seems suspicious as OS requirements for both apps are identical. Please post a screenshot.

Author of the leading independent Sonos app for Windows, the only Sonos app for Xbox, and a Sonos app for iOS
S
Userlevel 7
Badge +15

My assumption is that devices that are both S1 and S2 compatible will be able to move between systems (possibly with a factory reset) at will.  Is that right or is there anything suggesting it will not be the case?

G
Userlevel 2

“I called Sonos today and they said that any device that currently works on S2 will always work on S2. So no worries about devices getting stuck on S2.”

 

:rofl: I gave up believing what they “say” a long time ago. I remember when the app was first introduced years ago they told everyone on the forum to relax, that tthey had no intention of ever discontinuing the standalone Controller. Five’ll get ya ten the S3 is already in the early planning stages to be released when cash infusion will be urgently needed. And how does one go about getting a large influx of new cash from a stable and content user base?

 

 

S
Userlevel 7
Badge +15

Yes I'm aware of that but they've never had a scenario where they maintained two sets of software before - with some devices that can operate on either.

Maybe @Ryan A can confirm?

B

Once S2 is released, will I still be able to buy new speakers and add them to a legacy system?

 

I know that every time I add a new speaker to my existing system, it forces me to update every controller and speaker to the latest version before bringing the new speaker online.  (That’s how I lost the ability to use old controllers, even though we don’t use any features that weren’t there 10 years ago.)

 

 

 

Currently this is not possible.  I just got a new Play1 and wanted to add it to my existing system of three other Play1s running S1 controller.  When I go to Settings>Add Device it forces me to an upgrade to S2 before I can add the new Play1 speaker.   As far as I can tell, there is currently no way around this which runs contrary to what Sonos indicated regarding being able to continue to use an existing S1 network.

 

While all of my gear is technically S2 compatible, I have heard way too many horror stories about the new S2 controller and I would prefer to wait a few more months while Sonos gets the bugs worked out before upgrading.  It looks like I may have to wait two more months before I can use my new speaker too...

 

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