In my opinion you should not attempt to use SONOS in this application. There will be nagging sound delay and connection issues. If the system operator is sharp and patient, there are some (sort of) potential workarounds, but I wouldn’t expect a visiting “Aunt Tilda” will be able to deal with these. SONOS home theater components are designed to be used in traditional single TV applications and offer quick and easy setup in this application. 

If you want to plunge ahead with SONOS anyway, Attach each input device to an HDMI splitter/switcher and send them to each TV as separate inputs. Connect each TV’s ARC output to its own AMP. If you use TV Apps, there will be issues when attempting to synchronize display of the same App on both TV’s.

This is basically the setup I have .  Two TVs outside.  Each TV is connected to an  Sonos amp, 1 has 4 speakers in parallel, the other just a pair.    They can be operated separately with the TV apps, which happens the majority of the time, or a single HDMI source via an HDMI splitter.  I haven’t had much issue get the sound to be in sync.  It is not perfect, but it’s fairly close and good enough, considering the speed of sound over a large space and being outdoors.  

Yes, a 4k@60 hz splitter should be just fine for the majority of TVs, certainly good for outdoors.  You may want to consider include an indoor TV off the splitter as well, if it makes sense. If you’re having a TV watching event, chances are people will be both inside and outside.    It wasn’t too difficult with the way my home is laid out, but could certainly be a problem for some homes.

I’m not really sure that using a non-Sonos system would be better, you might be able to power more than 4 speakers off a single multizone amp with no delays, but you still are dealing with a large outdoor space and you’ll have more trouble trying to control the setup.

I didn’t want to complicate this post too much by adding that yes I 100% plan to try to have my inside TV be connected too.  The problem with this is that I don’t have my outdoor space connected to my house and there is no possibility of conduit or any physical connection now.  I had looked at both 1080p and 4K wireless HDMI and specifically looked at the response time and range.  Being that I can order some of these off amazon.com with free returns, I figure it’s worth a shot.  The 4K ones that claim like single digit ms response time are 1500$+, but the 1080p ones with extreme low response time are far cheaper at $100-$150 max.  I had thought maybe if we have luck with the 1080p one with no lag, no range issue, maybe whenever we want to use all three TV’s synchronized, I simply accept that the outdoor probably 40-50” TV’s are going to run at 1080p, which seriously, what’s wrong with that? I can’t even guarantee content coming from Hulu (I have the $75 no ads thing), is 4K anyhow, right?  My real concern is lag and signal issues.  In this design *IF* that worked, I’d be adding another splitter in front or find one that can do 1 input 4 output, perhaps (wireless HDMI receiver = input, output1=TV1, output2=TV2, output3=sonos amp1, output4=sonos amp2)?

It’s a bummer my outdoor cant be connected to my indoor because I could prob just have a FireStick INSIDE the house, go to a splitter, with one going to the TV inside and the other going ot a HDMI over ethernet converter, and simply terminate that in the backyard.  I did this in the desert with my trailer once and ran like a 150’ thing of cat-5e and signal was flawless.

:EDIT:  I wonder if there is any design that is realistic where I could buy new TV’s that support Bluetooth and use nice powered speakers that can connect to the TV’s themselves?  I’d still need HDMI splitters for that but might each TV having it’s own BT speaker(s) be able to maintain low latency?

I have never tried wireless HDMI, so can’t speak to how well it works. I do know that attempting to play the same live  stream via streaming or cable channel will not work.  They can be off by as much as half a minute...not just annoying.   One other thing I did learn in my setup is that your splitter is likely going to take the audio/video capability of your lowest connected output and send that back to the source as the capability of the system.  In other words, if a 1080p transceiver is connect as one of the outputs, your indoor TV will get 1080p as well.  You would need to get a splitter that is capable of getting 4k for the main TV and downgrading the signal to 1080p for our transceiver and outdoor TVs.  So a little more expensive, but not the cost of a 4k transmitter.

And I would get an HDMI matrix instead of a splitter, just so you can have multiple sources if you ever want/need it.  That said, I’m using a matrix (and a splitter) and I really only use one source. My setup is actually a 4x2 matrix with a one 4k output and one 1080p .  4k goes to main TV, and 1080p goes to a 3 way splitter.  2 go outside, and 1 goes to a monitor in the kitchen, just off the main room.  That is great for always seeing what’s on the TV without having to turn around to look at the main TV.

As a said though, it’s rare to play all 4 TVS to the same source.  The outdoor TVs mostly use their internal streaming apps.

I see a couple downsides to that. First, most bluetooth speakers really shouldn’t be kept outside, and will probably need to be recharged, or you have them permanently connected to power.  The other is that you’re going to be limited to the number of speakers you can play in sync, and/or can only control via bluetooth. I think using Amps is a much better approach.  Honestly, a single Amp can power 4 speakers and easily cover a typical residential pool area.  I have a 2nd amp under my patio, that wasn’t 100% needed, but connected to 2nd TV and feed my Sonos addiction.  And I have a 3rd zone back there in side yard that is mostly because I had spare Port and 3rd party amp I wasn’t using for anything else.

I want to re-read the replies when i am home from work, but have a few minutes now.   I have power outlets on both sides of my yard, so I think truly I can be fine with a couple speakers.  I used to run some speaker wire and some outdoor rated Yamaha (I think??) speakers from 10 years ago, and they were in series as left Rear and right Rear off the Sony amp, and the sound was great and loud, deep.   I dont understand the Ohm rating and outdoor speakers, but how can I run 4 speakers off a Sonos Amp?  Their speakers are like 850$ for two and are 8 ohm but dont they need to be wired to individual output, not in series?  I ran 4 speakers before and it was more than enough, two per side of my yard. Yamaha NS-AW150W.  I threw them away when I tore up my backyard knowing I’d get something new/fresh/better…  Amazon.com: Yamaha NS-AW150W 2-Way Indoor/Outdoor Speakers (Pair, White) : Electronics

HDMI matrix… very interesting.  This looks cool:

https://www.monoprice.com/product?p_id=43961

I could do something like:
input 1 = wireless HDMI from inside the house
input 2 = fire stick1
input 3 = fire stick2

output1=sonos amp1
output2=sonos amp2
output3=tv1
output4=tv2

Not even certain i need 2 sonos amp, but still, this could make it easy to say audio for this device output here or there.   it has IR and I could put it in a weatherproof box and put the IR sensor out and simply use the remote.   The Fire Stick remotes are RF.  I wonder if the volume up/down on a fire stick remote could control somehow over wi-fi, the sonos amp volume up/down?

This article does a good job of explaining how you connect 4 speakers to a single Amp.  I used to have the exact same yamaha’s in black, back when I used the old Connect:Amp instead of the Amp.  They were really good for the price and held up well.  I now use some JBLs that sound better with better bass.  I don’t want to spend that much for the Sonos/Sonance outdoor speakers, and can’t really say if they’re worth the price.

I don’t have experience from that matrix, but have heard of the blackbird before.  It does seem to check the boxes in terms if functionality goes.

On the outputs, Sonos amps use HDMI-ARC  (Audio Return Channel), which is not the same thing as normal HDMI. It needs to be connected to the HDMI-ARC port (usually input 1) on a TV to get audio.  There are devices that can convert normal HDMI audio to HDMI-ARC, like the HD Fury Arcana, and even some devices that combine this functioality into HDMI switch or matrix.  However, you really don’t need that your case.  On your TVs, connect HDMI 1 (ARC) to the Amp, and HDMI 2 to your HDMI switch/matrix.  The amp will play whatever is on the TV, even when it comes from the TVs smart apps.

That’s how I have my outdoor TVs setup, my indoor TV, I actually do use an HD Fury Arcana, but that is so that I can get eARC connection to a Sonos Arc for True HD Atmos.  The amp isn’t even capable of atmos, not that you can do atmos outdoors realistically.

Thank you, great info.

With Sonos Amp can you easily control left/right level with the amp?  I envision I’ll have these weatherproof sonos enclosures outside since I don’t have a good dedicated dry central area with power?  Let’s say I did two Amp’s and only 4 total speakers (2 per amp, L/R) and I wanted to easily say the R channels were a little lower as maybe they were directed down to where people were sitting and the other L channels on both are directed out to the pool and the other side of the yard or something.  Have you tested Alexa or Google home integration?  Like could I say “Alexa, lower volume Sonos Amp 1 Left channel to 5” or something?

Yes, you can adjust the balance in the Sonos app.

In this case dual mono mode might be a good option.

I’ve used Alexa extensively, Google home, only a little.  You can change the volume pretty easily, but you can’t change the balance, as far as I’m aware.  Worth noting though that your current source is a TV, then the TV remote can adjust volume too.

Here’s a good article regarding Alexa groups, which will make Sonos/Alexa more seamless.  For a couple years, I’ve had echo dots in my backyard to control the Sonos amps.  They work well, but are not built for outdoors and will get replaced occasionally.  I’m currently trying out a TV with Alexa built in, which has worked really well for music requests.

@melvimbe using the HDMI ARC that means that if the TV is off, no audio comes out of the Sonos Amp, even if the Input on the Matrix is streaming.  What I wonder is, is it a per-TV setting that if I wanted to have the Sonos Amp output (Speakers) be the only sound I hear, even though you raise the volume on the TV, the TV speakers itself don’t output sound?  What if you used the Sonos Amp app and raised volume there, does it pass it back to the TV and the volume on that raises so both are in sync with level 0-100 kind of thing?  If I ever desired to have sound/music outside but not have my TV’s on, can I do that by just streaming say Spotify from my phone to the Sonos Amp?

When you connect a TV to  speakers via  HDMI-ARC or optical, the vast majority of TVs will automatically turn off the internal TV speakers.  Following that, with an HDMI-ARC connection, the TV and the Amp will communicate volume levels back and forth (via CEC), so that you can control volume via the TV remote, the Sonos app, or other means, and the volume level will be known by both TV and Amp.

As far as what audio plays, you can select the source of audio you want playing on the amp from the Sonos app.  So you can select Spotify streaming, TV, the line in source on the amp, etc.  So the TV does not need to be on to play audio.  You can even have the TV on, but have the amp play Spotify, for example.  For conveince though, you can set the Amp to automatically start playing TV audio when it sense audio coming from the TV.  And of course, you can ‘group’ one amp with other amps and speakers (‘Rooms’ in Sonos terms) to play audio in sync across different rooms.

everything you said was what i expected.  I figure a brand new Samsung high end thing will do all the things it’s supposed to per specs out there, maybe some weird chinese no name brand may not.

this last part has me thinking though “And of course, you can ‘group’ one amp with other amps and speakers (‘Rooms’ in Sonos terms) to play audio in sync across different rooms.”.   I figured the only way I could have two Sonos amp’s place in sync would be to use the Matrix and output1 output2 to both Sonos and tell the matrix to use that.  That’s cool.  I could for example use Spotify in the app and say both Amp’s play audio in sync.  Wild.. Thank you for that and all your help.

Just to make your head spin a bit: There is a latency between Line-In and output from any SONOS players. If you Group players playing Line-In, all players in the Group will be time aligned, but there is a 75ms latency from Line-In. This is not an issue unless something else is playing the analog signal directly. Certainly it doesn’t matter that a CD recorded decades ago is delayed another 75ms, however if you have the analog signal playing directly through a conventional audio system and via a SONOS Line-In, the Line-In will be late -- if both audio streams can be heard simultaneously. It’s’ probably not an issue for distant rooms.

With respect to input to ARC’s (or any other soundbar) HDMI port or AMP’s HDMI port, the latency is about 30ms. This lower latency is better for lip sync. This does create an issue if you attempt to Group audio from the ARC HDMI input with other SONOS players because the other players will be at 75ms while ARC/AMP is at 30ms. You can ease the situation somewhat by adjusting ARC’s lip sync delay -- at the expense of some lip sync.

With your proposed HDMI split/switch scheme there will not be any significant timing differences between soundbars playing the same video source.

I hate to do this to all of you, but as I was walking around the yard, explaining to my wife what we’re going to buy, where we’ll mount it all etc. she asked me “Why can’t we just use some powered BT speakers?”.  I thought in my mind:

1. they probably are cheaper $, so probably not as perfect audio sounding, but we are not audiophiles.
2. you don’t get the cool Sonos app integration stuff on your phone
3. i don’t know if you can pair say 2 BT speakers to one TV.
4. maybe they have issues being perfectly in sync with the video?
5. perhaps controlling volume on them could be a PITA, not even sure how that would work.

I am totally fine with dropping the $ on 1-2 AMP’s, this Altelix Weatherproof enclosure, the HDMI matrix, yadda yadda…   But I’d like to be prepared to answer her question without just going “uhhh.. uhhmm.. “ 

Thanks

Full disclosure: I’m not a big BT user, but it has it’s uses.

BT is convenient for sending phone/pad audio to a speaker. This is a point to point application. I know a few people who are using BT equipped hearing aids while watching TV and this also integrates reasonably well with phone conversations, but I’ve had some issues during phone conversations with these people. One person also integrates the BT hearing aids with automobile electronics. Sometimes I observe struggles while the phone and hearing aids negotiate with the alternate environments (home and auto). This suggests to me that there could be some issues if using multiple BT speakers, multiple phone/pads, and multiple TV’s. If something gets out of sorts, the user would need to negotiate with multiple TV’s and multiple speakers -- as individual units, not as a system.

I’m not sure if many TV’s would act as a BT source, or if they would send stereo in this application.

There is another approach to this sort of application that is used by bars and other large venues. Essentially, there is a “box” for each input device and TV. Dozens and dozens of sources and TV’s can be integrated to play any combination of  inputs on any combination of TV’s -- with very low latency. You’d want to tie all of this together with some sort of control system. Overall, this approach is intended to be implemented by professional installers, but there is no reason why a skilled amateur couldn’t set this up. 

As you see, there are various approaches to this project and you’ll receive numerous recommendations with respect to “best” and why the other approaches are “terrible”.

In my opinion an overall consideration should be: can your wife and family operate the system?

this is a very good point.   she hates our Sony receiver in the family room as she has no idea how it works when switching input’s.  I thought it was simple, but she says no.  I have never used Sonos app on iOS, but I expect it to be simple to use for streaming stuff.

I also read that BT 5.0+ allows multiple simultaneous BT speaker devices.  I think there is a plus with Sonos in that I can have the speakers output say Spotify, but have the TV on for say a sports game that few would be watching, so no sound.  With the BT only setup, it’s whatever the TV has on.  Also the BT setup requires the TV to be on, where the Sonos I could leave the TV off and simply set the Input for Sonos to be Spotify and play music only.   I did have the hardscape people put power outlets on each side of our covered structure so technically i can deal with power where I want, but I think speaker wire will be just as easy to simply attach above out of sight.

I showed her how Sonos is saying shipping 11/25 now (could be sooner).  Amazon.com I can have an Amp tomorrow for $899 (some dude marking it up $200), or for $999 best buy has the Sonance outdoor MAG speakers with the Sonos Amp, which I question thinking dang 300 for 2 speakers that everyone says are good, maybe worth it?  problem is I want 2 more and I think those speakers are maybe EOL, as I don’t find them anywhere other than Best Buy with that Amp+speaker combo.  So i’m thinking skip and just wait till 11/25 and find some other 8ohm speaker (4 total) that I can easily source.

Thanks

I think that Sonance speaker/Sonos amp package is pretty much a Best Buy exclusive.  I don’t recall seeing it anywhere else.  I have no doubt that it works, but it’s never mentioned as a supported setup by Sonos.  

As far as family acceptance, I’ve never had any trouble with the kids figuring things out, but voice control seems to be the favorite. To make things even easier, I’ve now got one of those TVs with Alexa built in, that is active without the TV even being on.  So basically, everything just works through the TV now, whether it’s music or watching something on streaming.  Very easy.

I think ‘motivation’ is a large factor. The kids have a goal. Many adults don’t want to be bothered with learning anything.

That is part of it, but a lot of it has to do with their brains have been wired to pick up stuff like this more easily.  plenty of experience in figuring out how screen controlled stuff works. Many adults don’t have that experience and don't want to put in the time to gain it.

Also, specific to the wife, they alternative course of action rather than learning a new toy.  Instead, they can just make your life miserable until new toy is removed and they get things back the way they want it.  Your children can’t do that.  They may try, but will ultimately fail.

 It’s their way of exerting control.