External DAC with Connect

In the search for the ultimate quality of sound (?) surely the most significant factors in the quality are at the beginning and the end of the chain.

My own experience has been that themove from Amplifiers via Crossovers, to active speakers where the drive units are closely coupled to the integral amps has made the greatest difference so far.

You are spot on with the first part.
For the second, the problem is you are dealing with two variables at the same time, so it is not possible to isolate the reason. The first variable is the changed location of the amp and the second, the change in the speaker/speaker voicing itself. I suspect that the differences you are hearing are from the second variable and not on account of where the amplification resides.

Avid Contributor I

Kumar

You maybe right.

As an electronics engineer, it has always concerned me putting a collection of capacitors and inductors in the ouput of an amplifier to create a set of low pass/high pass filters. As we know these filters have some unforeseen effects both on the damping factor, or control of the drive unit and also complex waveforms. While music is not a square wave (not what i listen to anyway....) if you attempt to pass a square wave through these networks you dont get a square wave out the other side.

One of the biggest changes i have noticed has been in the control of the bass unit. My active speakers do not exhibit the boom of previous speakers (ProAcs) and the drive units are of similar size. ProAcs are not bad speakers by any stretch of the imagination.

Perhaps you should try some actives. Mine are fed from a Sonos Connect via Toslink with the DAC incorporated in the speaker cab. Also with the rise of wiresless connectivity (like Dynaudio Xeo) it makes a lot of sense to concentrate the electronics in the speaker box.....hang on....thats a play 5 surely, but with a bit more headroom, i dont know what amp is in the Play 5, its not bad, but i suspect its not quite as powerful as the 75w/250w in the actives.

What is really needed is an OEM sonos module that can be incorporated in the active speaker, and then all you need is a mains lead!

With the decline in size of electronics it has become more practical to design like this.

Regards

Avid Contributor I

Kumar

Sorry just to be clear, you are right, its nothing to do with where the amp resides, its to do with what is between the amp output terminals and the drive unit input terminals.

Perhaps you should try some actives. Mine are fed from a Sonos Connect via Toslink with the DAC incorporated in the speaker cab. Also with the rise of wiresless connectivity (like Dynaudio Xeo) it makes a lot of sense to concentrate the electronics in the speaker box.....hang on....thats a play 5 surely, but with a bit more headroom, i dont know what amp is in the Play 5, its not bad, but i suspect its not quite as powerful as the 75w/250w in the actives.

What is really needed is an OEM sonos module that can be incorporated in the active speaker, and then all you need is a mains lead!

With the decline in size of electronics it has become more practical to design like this.

Regards

Martin,
As to the active v passive speaker thing, it all comes down to implementation quality - and since I have a very decent pair of Harbeths, I don't see any reason to move to actives.

My main system now has a Connect Amp driving a pair of Harbeth C7s, with the Sub doing LF support duty. Works brilliantly - very discreet, short speaker cable runs, and the Sub is placed in a way that it also replaces the wired Bridge, allowing for Sonosnet version 2.0 across the home.

Harbeths are easy to drive, so the Connect Amp suffices, but if it could be paired in stereo, and bridged to be wired to one speaker each, that would be a 110wpc system, with even shorter speaker cable runs if mains power sockets are available. It would then be suitable for many other high end passive speakers that need more power to perform than 55wpc of one Connect Amp.

I doubt that Sonos will do this - or the suggestion you have of a Sonos Connect module that can work in just the same way with active speakers - too small a market. Though I think there is a way to use a Connect with a pair of actives such that it is connected to only one of the pair.

Perhaps Sonos will come out with a larger scale version of the play 1, to provide the depth and scale that only a larger enclosure can provide, that also looks like a high end 2 channel system speaker. But this too may be too small a market for them to address.

Though I think there is a way to use a Connect with a pair of actives such that it is connected to only one of the pair.

Memory failing with age:) - here is an interesting thread on this subject I had started some time ago:
http://forums.sonos.com/showthread.php?t=31135&highlight=Mono+Connect
See the posts near the end of the thread.

Avid Contributor I

Kumar

Thanks for the response.

Harbeth make good speakers. Prior to trying actives my main speakers were ProAc Studio 125 ( floorstanders), i also used ProAc Tablette 2000 and of course a pair of BBC LS 3/5a, and a home constructed LS 3/5a from Falcon Acoustics. In addition some Rogers Studio 1 speakers were in the mix.

All of them sounded good in their own particular way. They were fed by an ARCAM AVR 350 with the ProAcs bi-wired. However what became obvious from examining the crossover assembly in the ProAcs was that even if the bi-wiring option was used, elements of the crossover were present in the signal chain.

All of the above speakers were compared with the actives. Not in a particular scientific way, other than to try to determine which i enjoyed listening to most over a period of time.

The actives won hands down every time, not surprisingly against a mid 1970s design from the BBC (LS 3/5a) of bookshelf size which was good on speech admittedly, but more surprisingly against some less than 10 year old mid end speakers £1000 - £1500. The Rogers fared not too well on this sounding boxy.

I was surprised at the result, but most of the old equipment went on ebay, and now i have a speaker approx size 30cm high by 25cm deep by 20cm on 60cm stands that are unobtrusive and have excellent imaging.

If you can get hold of modern actives you may be surprised. Dont write them off until you have heard some.

Happy Listening

If you can get hold of modern actives you may be surprised. Dont write them off until you have heard some.

Which ones are you using now?

Avid Contributor I

I am using AVI ADM9RSS, these are built by a small UK manufacturer called AVI and retail at £1300which seems good value to me as all you then need are some stands, maybe £70 a pair, a Sonos Connect and a few metres of Toslink depending on how far your Connect is away from the Speakers.

Using sensible mains cable and in my case laying the cable under the carpets the speakers sit on stands seemingly unconnected to anything! My wife is happy!

I also tried the Dynaudio Xeo 3 ( similar sound but a bit compressed at high volumes) and the Xeo 5 which had poorer imaging than the Xeo3 and the AVI.

The MD of AVI is someone who says what he thinks, but could not have been more hospitable, its not often you can have a whole morning Demo.

Regards

Using sensible mains cable and in my case laying the cable under the carpets the speakers sit on stands seemingly unconnected to anything! My wife is happy!

Very important, the last part. My move to a Connect Amp in my main system has released three boxes - a SACD player that was used to wire a Connect to, via coax digital, and Quad99/909 amplification, along with a component rack that is now used to house photos and other miscellany, with the same result on the domestic front.
I was looking at something like the AVI DM5 for my bedroom, where I just now have a Denon M38 box wired to a Connect, and to a ten year old pair of Quad 11L speakers. With the TV audio wired to the line in on the Connect in auto play mode. It works well enough and I may stick with it after some research. One concern in India is after sales - even if something goes wrong with the Denon, it is cheaper to solve than if something went wrong with an active speaker. The passive Quads are such that little can go wrong with them.