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Amp for Both Fronts and Surrounds

  • 21 October 2023
  • 14 replies
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K

Hi,

Hope someone can help please.

I currently have in a living room the wiring for 5 channel speakers but have removed the home cinema setup to another room.

I have an Arcam A32 and Tannoy Signature DC6 using the front stereo speaker wiring fed by a Sonos Connect (gen 1).

I'm in process of upgrading to gen 2 and was thinking Sonos Port. However I was then thinking I could maybe get an Amp instead be able to use it for TV (hdmi) as well. In this scenario:-

- Could the Amp use the A32 for the fronts (RCA)?

- Could the Amp then power passive rear speakers using its own amps or I'd have to use Sonos wireless speakers?

- What comes out of the digital out on the Amp in this case? Is it the full 5.1?

- What would happen if I played music in such a setup? Does the Amp create a surround effect from the stereo or just play to the front speakers? Or maybe can be configured to do either?

Please if anyone has experience/ knowledge of Amp and can answer these would be much appreciated.

Thanks, Ian.

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Best answer by buzz 21 October 2023, 14:24

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14 replies

buzz

PORT is not a surround unit and connecting PORT to a TV will usually resort in a vexing audio delay.

AMP can be used for TV surround. The A32 is not welcome in a SONOS surround system.

You could connect AMP to the TV’s HDMI-ARC connector and use your Tannoy’s for the front speakers. A second SONOS AMP or a pair of SONOS speakers could be used for surround, resulting in a 4.0 surround system. A SONOS SUB or 3rd party powered subwoofer could be added, resulting in a 4.1 surround system. You could repurpose the A32 to drive a 3rd party passive subwoofer.

AMP does not offer a digital audio input or output.

You can disable the surround output for stereo music. Unfortunately, you need to deal with this each time you transition between TV and stereo music.

K

Thanks for taking the time to respond - I wasn’t intending to try and use a port for the TV just for stereo, but then thought an Amp might cover both duties.

I’m not removing the A32 from the setup (the Sonos Amp won’t be anywhere near as good) or buying two Amps (there would be cheaper and better solutions). I also wouldn’t use the Amp to just provide stereo music and from the TV if it doesn’t support a digital out - I’d want the option to add a different DAC. I do find the latest Sonos units a bit inflexible in their usage TBH - didn’t the old Amps also have digital out?

I’ll think about Amp plus 2 Sonos speakers compared to Port plus an AV amp and some passive speakers and go down one of those routes I think. From the TV side it’s not a critical listening experience I’m looking for and the main thing is good music playback that I can also occasionally blend into the Sonos multiroom setup.

Thanks again, Ian.

buzz

AMP is better than grumpy audiophiles would like to admit.

CONNECT:AMP did not offer digital inputs or outputs.

SONOS is catering to the “keep it simple” masses. Including the options that many of us would like to have would be perceived as “complicated”. This is not a bad approach — unless you are a button freak. Many of the “simple” products are low class hardware in flashy suits. SONOS is first class hardware.

The most complicated aspect of SONOS is the product names. For example; when someone mentions “amp” it’s difficult to know if they are referring to the older ZP100, ZP120, the older version of CONNECT:AMP, the newer version of CONNECT:AMP, the current SONOS AMP, or a 3rd party integrated amplifier or power amplifier. Actually, the older CONNECT:AMP and ZP120 are identical hardware, only the name has changed.

K

As an update I've decided to go for a WiiM Pro Plus.

It has good software, great DAC, and digital inputs so I can use for TV as well or leverage DAC in other ways. It also has microphone for Alexa. It's only £219 and may be cheaper soon in sales.

For the occasional times I need to sync with the big family room I can use Airplay.

I may add a surround amp later. I think the whole cost would be less than Sonos Amp and two other Sonos speakers, and offer better surround sound.

I'm still going to go with Arc in big family room, adding to a couple of Ones in there, where I want multiple speakers for music and can't easily add surround wiring.

Thanks, Ian.

 

 

E

I have a similar issue.  We started out with a Sonos Arc and Subwoofer in a large room.  Our newer home came equipped with ceiling speakers, which I first thought I could patch into the Sonos system using a Sonos port. However, as noted above, the port is not compatible with a surround speaker set up. So, I returned the port and purchased a Sonos Amp. However, after setting that up and attempting to use it for sometime, I realized that the surround speakers were not working. This is because, apparently, you cannot configure third-party ceiling speakers with the Sonos Amp – you actually need to buy the Sonos ceiling speakers as well.  So, assuming I take the bait and replace the ceiling speakers with Sonos branded speakers, move the sound bar to another room and install Sonos in-wall (passive) speakers, my question now is, if you hook the Sonos Amp up to the television using the HDMI Arc connection, can one Sonos Amp drive both the left and right Sonos in-wall channels and the Sonos ceiling surround speakers? Or, do you have to buy a separate $700 amp to drive the surround speakers alongside the Amp used to drive the Front channels?

And, one more question — is there a hack or some other override to get the Amp to recognize connected third-party ceiling speakers, so they will get integrated into TruPlay and work as surround speakers?  Other threads suggest that this setup worked out of the box (once upon a time).  But, Sonos modified something so that only their branded speakers will work in a surround system.  It would be great if I could undo that lockout, as the ceiling speakers I have are installed in a high ceiling and are already there and working.

Thanks,

Eric

Airgetlam

No. The issue you ran in to with the first Sonos Amp is that it can drive either the front, or the surround speakers, but not both at the same time. In order to get any pair of third party speakers to act as surrounds, you need a second Sonos Amp to drive them, bonded with either the front Sonos Amp, or a Sonos soundbar. 
 

No, the TruePlay function is specifically for a special subset of the Sonance Architectural Speakers. There’s no ‘secret password’ to make that function work with any other set of speakers. 

Bruce
K

Hi,

If you have wired in ceiling speakers and are also prepared to fit speakers into the walls I'd go with a traditional wired system and home cinema amp, driven by a Sonos Port or Connect Gen 2.

To say regards my situation I decided I didn't want to have to use different apps and Airplay for multiroom so got a used 2018 Connect gen 2 and a Sonlink DAC (Arcam). Should be good sound, cheaper than Port and Connect can be bit perfect. No 12v trigger but I don't really need it in that room.

Cheers, Ian.

 

E

Right now I have a Sonos Arc soundbar/subwoofer connected to the TV via HDMI ARC and Ethernet cable to the route and a Sonos Amp connected to the third-party ceiling speakers and Ethernet cable to the router. On the Sonos app, it lets me pair the Sonos Amp/third-party ceiling speakers as the “surround” speakers, but no music or Television sound emanates from them after pairing.  The TruPlay test also fails for want of being able to “hear” the third-party speakers.  If I unpair the Amp, it becomes an available device, which can be selected for ordinary music playback, either as a standalone or in a group.

What I really want is for the Sonos Arc and subwoofer to manage the left, center and right (and .1) channels and the Sonos AMP to pair in as the surrounds and/or music playback as part of the Soundbar Arc device.  But, as mentioned, when the AMP pairs in as the surround speakers, nothing plays at all (whether acting as theater surrounds or as music speakers when the Arc is selected for music playback).  I assume the issue, therefore, is the third-party ceiling speakers?

Perhaps finding a used Connect:Amp, and replacing the AMP with the earlier version, would solve the problem?

thanks,

Eric

Stanley_4
Userlevel 7
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What happens if you play a music source (not from the TV) and select Full Mode for the surrounds?

 

E

When I do that (play a Sonos source, like Spotify using the Full Mode for the surrounds), no sound plays.  You can select the Full mode volume.  No change at any volume setting.  If I unpair the speakers from surround mode, and the system becomes its own location, then music plays just fine.  

K

It sounds like it should work tbh.

Does the Arc still connect to the Amp via 5GHz in this scenario? Wonder if there may be some problem with that? Are there obstructions between them?

A Connect Amp won't help I don't think as I don't believe it can work as a surround amp with Arc?

 

 

Airgetlam

A CONNECT:AMP should work, but only if it is wired….see the setting up Amp or CONNECT:AMP as surround speakers FAQ.

This is due to the CONNECT:AMP not having a 5Ghz antenna to latch on to the surround signal generated by the ‘front’ device. 

Bruce
E

The ARC is connected via WiFi while the AMP has an Ethernet connection. I wonder.  Maybe I should try connecting the ARC via a CAT 6 cable?  I’d have to arrange a few things, but there is one nearby.  I don’t know why that would make a difference.  Then again, I don’t know how the AMP can tell the difference between a third-party ceiling speaker and the one Sonos sells. 

E

To answer my own question, connecting the AMP and the ARC to the same network via their own Ethernet cables SOLVED THE PROBLEM.  Before, the ARC was connected via WIFI and the AMP was connected via an Ethernet cable.  After I connected the ARC to the network via an Ethernet cable, the system both added the ceiling speakers as surrounds AND recognized them during the Trueplay synchronization.  Playback now works, both as a surround speaker, supporting the ARC 5.1 capabilities, and as music speakers (as either “full” or “ambient”).  Other than being the fool for ignoring this problem for too long, I’m now getting the capability out of the Amp and ceiling speakers according to the original install plan. 
 

Eric

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