Speaker groups now possible in Google after patent lawsuit. When will Sonos match features?

  • 11 October 2023
  • 14 replies
  • 926 views
T

24 hours after winning the current stage of a lawsuit, Google is rolling out a feature that allows individual speakers to be in multiple groups.

Google wins Sonos patent case, immediately ships speaker software update | Ars Technica

Where is Sonos on adding this same feature? I have an Arc, Sub (3G), and 2xEra 300s. Based on my room positioning, I’d love to use the Eras with the sub in a stereo format to listen to music or for TV/movies use all four speakers in full surround (Arc as bar, Eras as surrounds). I can do this by manually changing the speakers between groups but then lose TruePlay functionality unless I want to spend a few minutes configuring Trueplay every time I switch. It feels a little odd that Sonos is suing Google for (at least in part) a feature it isn’t even deploying despite request from the community for years, based on my searching.

 

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14 replies

jgatie

It is not the same feature at all.  You can already have a Sonos speaker in multiple groups, just configure the group in settings.  I can switch from Bedroom/Bathroom, to Bathroom/Kitchen, to Kitchen/Den at the push of a button.  This has nothing to do with switching a room from an Arc/Sub/Ones surrounds to a Ones stereo pair and a Sub.  

Airgetlam

I’m sorry, did I miss Sonos being purchased by Google?

Bruce
melvimbe

The reason Google rolled out this feature so quickly is so that it will make Sonos look bad for the appeal of this decision, forcing Google to roll it back out (rather than rewritting the feature)...again.  They want this to appear as if Sonos is taking features away from Google customers, rather than Google stealing code from Sonos.

Danny
T

 

It is not the same feature at all.  You can already have a Sonos speaker in multiple groups, just configure the group in settings.  I can switch from Bedroom/Bathroom, to Bathroom/Kitchen, to Kitchen/Den at the push of a button.  This has nothing to do with switching a room from an Arc/Sub/Ones surrounds to a Ones stereo pair and a Sub.  

Can you please walk me through this step-by-step? I don’t see any option in the settings on my iPhone  to create groups other than rooms (iOS 17, latest version of the Sonos app). Thanks! I have several Google Home Max speakers in addition to some Minis, and I’m able to add them to both rooms and speaker groups. This means I can tell a device, “Play music in the living room” or “Play music downstairs” and it functions as expected by playing music in either just the living room, which is downstairs, or the living room and kitchen, both of which are downstairs. 

 

To be clear, I’m not a fanboy of a particular platform, ecosystem, or product group. I’m happy with the sound quality of my $2000+ in Sonos speakers (cheap by HiFi standards but a lot for the average person). I’m just disappointed there’s a feature missing that Sonos is literally suing a competitor for using (re: “It’s not the same feature” message, it’s covered by the IP or Google wouldn’t have waited to re-deploy it until the court decided in their favor). I fully expect Sonos to appeal and it’s as likely as not Google will be forced to pull the feature again, I’m just trying to draw attention to the fact that Sonos doesn’t have it (and should, IMO).

   

I’m sorry, did I miss Sonos being purchased by Google?

Nope, just a fervent belief in competition and the hope a top-tier consumer products technology company will add a feature the competition now has. Much the same way Google/Apple mirror features in iOS/Android, or Microsoft with Windows/macOS.

  

 

T

The reason Google rolled out this feature so quickly is so that it will make Sonos look bad for the appeal of this decision, forcing Google to roll it back out (rather than rewritting the feature)...again.  They want this to appear as if Sonos is taking features away from Google customers, rather than Google stealing code from Sonos.

Also - Per the Arstechnica article, I don’t think the question in the litigation is that Google stole code, it’s that the action/capability itself was patented by Sonos. If that’s not the case I’d appreciate some details elucidating!

Airgetlam

Unless Sonos has been working on this feature already, it’s awfully unlikely to be released any time soon. I’d think the process would be months: design spec, engineering, internal testing, beta testing, then release. And all of that is only if it’s both on their priority list, and have spare engineering talent to work on it. 

Bruce
jgatie

Settings > System > Groups, create group(s).  Click group button from the now playing screen, click on group name.

controlav
Userlevel 7
Badge +23

Its easy for Google to put this back, and take it out again, whenever they want:

git revert

Author of the leading independent Sonos app for Windows, the only Sonos app for Xbox, and a Sonos app for iOS
P
Userlevel 3
Badge +4

https://www.theverge.com/2023/10/10/23911491/google-home-grouping-features-now-available-sonos

 

https://www.theverge.com/2023/10/10/23911256/google-statement-sonos-patent-victory

Shame they worked on this together, and then fell out, users are the ones that lose out…..

T

Settings > System > Groups, create group(s).  Click group button from the now playing screen, click on group name.

All of my speakers are in one room. Groups isn’t available until you have three rooms (per the app, “This feature is only available on systems with three or more rooms”), and even then it seems geared toward music rather than providing surround sound.

jgatie

All of my speakers are in one room. Groups isn’t available until you have three rooms (per the app, “This feature is only available on systems with three or more rooms”), and even then it seems geared toward music rather than providing surround sound.

 

Right.  As I said above, Sonos has no way of breaking up speakers bonded together as rooms into separate groups.

And neither does Google. 

 

melvimbe

The reason Google rolled out this feature so quickly is so that it will make Sonos look bad for the appeal of this decision, forcing Google to roll it back out (rather than rewritting the feature)...again.  They want this to appear as if Sonos is taking features away from Google customers, rather than Google stealing code from Sonos.

Also - Per the Arstechnica article, I don’t think the question in the litigation is that Google stole code, it’s that the action/capability itself was patented by Sonos. If that’s not the case I’d appreciate some details elucidating!

 

Honestly, I don’t think I even trust media to report on this issue correctly, not at that level of detail.  Even though it’s a crucial level of detail.  I definitely did see media articles that stated the issue in question was the code, or mechanism, in which the feature was implemented, not the feature itself.  Point being that even if I found articles stated this way or that, I don’t really see it as a convincing argument anymore.

I really don’t even trust the justice system on this.  The issue seems to be too nuanced for the judge to understand properly, and I get the impression that the judge is picking sides here.  Not to mention that the general public is picking sides based on which system they are invested in, or whether they prefer David or Goliath.

 

On a broader level, and definitely just my personal opinion, patent stealing isn’t really the biggest concern here.  It’s the fact that tech giants like Google, Amazon, Apple are able to leverage their strong presence in multiple markets to strategic advantage against competitors in those markets.  While good for consumers in one way, in that tech giants are able to provide some goods, services and infrastructure at prices other companies couldn’t possibly be profitable at, they prevent smaller companies from being successful, because they can’t match the capital (taken from other lines of business, they can’t provide the infrastructure, don’t have an army of lawyers, can’t lobby politicians at the same level, etc etc.  I firmly believe that if corporations were blocked from participating in multiple markets as a single entity, then we would have many more options of products and services and competitive products in the long run.

 

Danny
T

 

All of my speakers are in one room. Groups isn’t available until you have three rooms (per the app, “This feature is only available on systems with three or more rooms”), and even then it seems geared toward music rather than providing surround sound.

 

Right.  As I said above, Sonos has no way of breaking up speakers bonded together as rooms into separate groups.

And neither does Google. 

 

Yes, Google does. The Google Home app allows me to select individual speakers to add to a group instead of the entire room. You can then play music to either the speaker group or the room. To be fair, you can only do this with music unless you’re willing to tolerate/remediate significant latency issues (possible when watching something from a PC, less so any apps).

jgatie

 

Yes, Google does. The Google Home app allows me to select individual speakers to add to a group instead of the entire room. You can then play music to either the speaker group or the room. To be fair, you can only do this with music unless you’re willing to tolerate/remediate significant latency issues (possible when watching something from a PC, less so any apps).

 

I’ve seen nothing in this announcement which states you can easily break up a stereo pair in order to play one of the speakers in another group.  Please link to any verbiage which says you can. 

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