Hello all,
I'm designing a whole home audio system for my house which is currently under reconstruction. I'd like to go with Sonos. I think it'll be more cost effective than going with a multi-room audio system that they're marketing nowadays. I also am in desperate need of great sound quality and power. I plan to entertain a lot.
Because of pitched ceilings, I'm really leaning towards the SpeakerCraft in-ceiling speakers so I can direct the speaker downwards. Some rooms are larger, others are smaller. I have about 8 zones all with two speakers except one which has four. I plan to use 8 individual connects to control each zone individually and/or multiple zones simultaneously.
I want separate amps (not a Connect:AMP) that won't break the bank to give me the power Connect:AMP won't. The SpeakerCraft speakers I'm leaning towards are 8 ohms/125W. I'm stuck when it comes to amplifiers. Some say pre-amp + amp for the Connect, others say not necessarily. I would prefer a multi-input/multi-output amp to cut costs but I'm not sure. I was looking at the QSC GX3 because it matches the impedance and wattage of the speakers and I figure I can simply plug in the RCA cables, connect the speakers and I'm set. Unfortunately, $300 per zone seems a bit pricey. So I'm open to amp recommendations, but I want the power and the quality.
Here's where I'm stuck with the GX3 (things to consider). How will I power these on? The Sonos doesn't have a trigger out. I was thinking leave them on all the time because I have no solution for this. Without knowing much I have a feeling I should avoid this. All of the equipment is going in a clean power, ventilated electrical room that I won't be walking over to overtime I want to turn on the audio system. Ease of use/smartphone control is very important to me.
For the four speaker zone, I can daisy two together using the 1/4" output/input.
I guess it all just doesn't sound like an optimal setup. I'm sure an optimal setup will costs 10s of ks, especially the guy to hook it up but that's not budgeted. The cost of the Connects and the speakers are expected so just the pre-amp/amps I need to figure out.
I have some experience and I'm sure all of this stuff has already been answered but I'm trying to set myself up properly. Any help would be greatly appreciated.
Thanks,
Henry
PS
Wife already beat me for suggesting we hand the job (and money) over to professionals...
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Make sure you flood wire your rebuild with Cat6 cable while your at it !
Just sitting here itching after crawling down the narrow gable behind the top floor bathroom, over the insulation to run a cable down a duct from the top floor to the ground floor , its a nasty, cramped, dusty nightmare !
Bit off topic, but it would be worth it, as good as the Sonosnet is, you cant beat hardwired.
Just sitting here itching after crawling down the narrow gable behind the top floor bathroom, over the insulation to run a cable down a duct from the top floor to the ground floor , its a nasty, cramped, dusty nightmare !
Bit off topic, but it would be worth it, as good as the Sonosnet is, you cant beat hardwired.
hen,
When working through the budget, keep in mind that the incremental cost between CONNECT and CONNECT:AMP is $150. If you use an external power amplifier, it's cost should be compared to the increment, not the full cost of CONNECT:AMP. And, with CONNECT:AMP the power management is inherent, not pasted on.
Also, the power per channel of most of the installation amplifiers is less than the per channel output for CONNECT:AMP. And, I'm not convinced that the amplifiers in those installation packages are any better than CONNECT:AMP. In the big picture, power output per channel is not a major consideration for ceiling speakers. Power output per channel could be a consideration for outside speakers.
---
In general no one knows what the power rating assigned to a speaker means. There are no hard standards for deriving that number. As often as not, someone in the marketing department assigns the number. A speaker's power rating is usually someone's idea of the recommended maximum power rating for the amplifier, not a recommended minimum power (unless this detail is specifically mentioned). In general it is easy to misuse and damage any speaker with any amplifier. If you gave me a speaker and requested that I blow it up, I would ask for an amplifier in the 50-80 Watt range. If you gave me a larger amplifier, I would need to work a little harder and use some special tricks, but the speaker would soon be toasted in either case.
When working through the budget, keep in mind that the incremental cost between CONNECT and CONNECT:AMP is $150. If you use an external power amplifier, it's cost should be compared to the increment, not the full cost of CONNECT:AMP. And, with CONNECT:AMP the power management is inherent, not pasted on.
Also, the power per channel of most of the installation amplifiers is less than the per channel output for CONNECT:AMP. And, I'm not convinced that the amplifiers in those installation packages are any better than CONNECT:AMP. In the big picture, power output per channel is not a major consideration for ceiling speakers. Power output per channel could be a consideration for outside speakers.
---
In general no one knows what the power rating assigned to a speaker means. There are no hard standards for deriving that number. As often as not, someone in the marketing department assigns the number. A speaker's power rating is usually someone's idea of the recommended maximum power rating for the amplifier, not a recommended minimum power (unless this detail is specifically mentioned). In general it is easy to misuse and damage any speaker with any amplifier. If you gave me a speaker and requested that I blow it up, I would ask for an amplifier in the 50-80 Watt range. If you gave me a larger amplifier, I would need to work a little harder and use some special tricks, but the speaker would soon be toasted in either case.
Just sitting here itching after crawling down the narrow gable behind the top floor bathroom, over the insulation to run a cable down a duct from the top floor to the ground floor , its a nasty, cramped, dusty nightmare !
Bit off topic, but it would be worth it, as good as the Sonosnet is, you cant beat hardwired.
Two for each TV, one for each phone and one spare for each room.
All of these Sonos are going in a closet though...
When working through the budget, keep in mind that the incremental cost between CONNECT and CONNECT:AMP is $150. If you use an external power amplifier, it's cost should be compared to the increment, not the full cost of CONNECT:AMP. And, with CONNECT:AMP the power management is inherent, not pasted on.
Also, the power per channel of most of the installation amplifiers is less than the per channel output for CONNECT:AMP. And, I'm not convinced that the amplifiers in those installation packages are any better than CONNECT:AMP. In the big picture, power output per channel is not a major consideration for ceiling speakers. Power output per channel could be a consideration for outside speakers.
---
In general no one knows what the power rating assigned to a speaker means. There are no hard standards for deriving that number. As often as not, someone in the marketing department assigns the number. A speaker's power rating is usually someone's idea of the recommended maximum power rating for the amplifier, not a recommended minimum power (unless this detail is specifically mentioned). In general it is easy to misuse and damage any speaker with any amplifier. If you gave me a speaker and requested that I blow it up, I would ask for an amplifier in the 50-80 Watt range. If you gave me a larger amplifier, I would need to work a little harder and use some special tricks, but the speaker would soon be toasted in either case.
So I know the part about matching speaker power and impedance to the amplifier. What I would like to understand is how the Sonos AMP would fare in my 30' long x 10' wide x 18' high great room. This is the room I plan to use 4 ceiling speakers in. I do want some club style blasting music for around the house. If that changes your mind on the Sonos AMP, allow me to revoke the part about budgeting. I'm not going to pay $1,000.00 per channel but I am open to suggestions around the $300 per channel GX3.
hen,
"Blasting" is a very different situation.
Everyone has a different interpretation about what "blasting" might mean, but if you want to emulate a club, you'll need club type speakers, not home speakers -- and you'll need subwoofers. A major part of that club environment is the strong bass energy and this cannot be delivered with a few in-ceiling speakers.
The Great Room will be difficult to deal with. In my opinion four ceiling speakers in that space will not be very effective. At best there might be a sense of ambiance. You'll be better off with some wall mounted speakers mounted at about eight feet from the floor. Four to six pairs would be great. This will be a very live space, there will not be much focus, and using multiple pairs of speakers insures that one is always close to a pair of speakers, allowing the speakers to dominate for a listener, not the multiple reflections.
"Blasting" is a very different situation.
Everyone has a different interpretation about what "blasting" might mean, but if you want to emulate a club, you'll need club type speakers, not home speakers -- and you'll need subwoofers. A major part of that club environment is the strong bass energy and this cannot be delivered with a few in-ceiling speakers.
The Great Room will be difficult to deal with. In my opinion four ceiling speakers in that space will not be very effective. At best there might be a sense of ambiance. You'll be better off with some wall mounted speakers mounted at about eight feet from the floor. Four to six pairs would be great. This will be a very live space, there will not be much focus, and using multiple pairs of speakers insures that one is always close to a pair of speakers, allowing the speakers to dominate for a listener, not the multiple reflections.
"Blasting" is a very different situation.
Everyone has a different interpretation about what "blasting" might mean, but if you want to emulate a club, you'll need club type speakers, not home speakers -- and you'll need subwoofers. A major part of that club environment is the strong bass energy and this cannot be delivered with a few in-ceiling speakers.
The Great Room will be difficult to deal with. In my opinion four ceiling speakers in that space will not be very effective. At best there might be a sense of ambiance. You'll be better off with some wall mounted speakers mounted at about eight feet from the floor. Four to six pairs would be great. This will be a very live space, there will not be much focus, and using multiple pairs of speakers insures that one is always close to a pair of speakers, allowing the speakers to dominate for a listener, not the multiple reflections.
Sorry for my ignorance. So no to the club speakers but I do want as much power as possible from in ceilings or in walls. This room's ceiling goes from 18' at its highest to 10' at its lowest. I thought of the in wall speakers but I wasn't sure. I do like everything to be configured similarly but I'm not sure why I thought that the great room has to have the same configuration as the kitchen or my bedroom. I think I'll do some ZP120s for the kitchen, dinette, lounge, master bedroom and probably the dining room. I also thought four speakers were too little, but consultants that came around all said the same, four in ceilings. I think I'll go against that advice. Maybe half in walls, half in ceilings, not sure. But I'm sure that ZP120s won't do the trick. My budget just opened up since we're talking about just one room. Just need some product recommendations...
hen,
Others may have visualized the speakers, single file along the center line of the space. I'm thinking pairs along the walls. Two pairs would be on the end walls facing down the long axis and the other two pairs would be spaced along the walls. If you tend to hang out in certain areas, make sure that coverage in these areas is as symmetric as possible with respect to left and right.
A maverick sort of scheme would be to use two CONNECT:AMP's in the great room, each with a SONOS SUB. A CONNECT:AMP will support two pairs of 8-Ohm speakers and one SUB. In this scheme you'll have independent volume control over each end of the room, but not each pair of speakers. You could add volume controls for each pair, but this will introduce some operational considerations because of the SUB's -- the volume controls will adjust the small speakers, not SUB. The SUB's will do all of the heavy lifting, and you will not need major power for the smaller speakers. Grouped CONNECT:AMP's will operate as one room, but you can trim the volumes individually if necessary.
Avoid cheap speakers. I know that there are $100-200/pair in-wall and in-ceiling speakers, but I think that these will disappoint you. There is another class of product in the $400-700/pair range and yet another class in the $1000/pair range. You don't need the same class of speakers in all areas.
Others may have visualized the speakers, single file along the center line of the space. I'm thinking pairs along the walls. Two pairs would be on the end walls facing down the long axis and the other two pairs would be spaced along the walls. If you tend to hang out in certain areas, make sure that coverage in these areas is as symmetric as possible with respect to left and right.
A maverick sort of scheme would be to use two CONNECT:AMP's in the great room, each with a SONOS SUB. A CONNECT:AMP will support two pairs of 8-Ohm speakers and one SUB. In this scheme you'll have independent volume control over each end of the room, but not each pair of speakers. You could add volume controls for each pair, but this will introduce some operational considerations because of the SUB's -- the volume controls will adjust the small speakers, not SUB. The SUB's will do all of the heavy lifting, and you will not need major power for the smaller speakers. Grouped CONNECT:AMP's will operate as one room, but you can trim the volumes individually if necessary.
Avoid cheap speakers. I know that there are $100-200/pair in-wall and in-ceiling speakers, but I think that these will disappoint you. There is another class of product in the $400-700/pair range and yet another class in the $1000/pair range. You don't need the same class of speakers in all areas.
All of these Sonos are going in a closet though...
Wire everywhere you can get while its open !
Still itching six hours and two showers later 😞
In hopes of publicizing my small new (open-source) offering widely without being too spammy:
"SonosAmpJuicePi"- solution for automatically powering on/off amps
https://en.community.sonos.com/advanced-setups-229000/sonosampjuicepi-solution-for-automatically-powering-onoff-amps-6756435
"SonosAmpJuicePi"- solution for automatically powering on/off amps
https://en.community.sonos.com/advanced-setups-229000/sonosampjuicepi-solution-for-automatically-powering-onoff-amps-6756435
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