End of Software Support - Clarifications

End of Software Support - Clarifications
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P
Userlevel 3

Let’s try to get a US News group to pick up the story.  Attached is a link to Fox News.  Select “send a story or news tip”.  I’m sending it right now.  Fox may respond if they get enough incoming tips. 
 

https://help.foxnews.com/hc/en-us/requests/new

M

I sort of understand the decision, but (1) the communication has been a bit of a mess and (2) as an owner of some ‘legacy’ Connect:Amp units, if I was to replace them I would not go with the modern day equivalent.  You are forcing me, with the 30% ‘trade up’ to buy stuff I would not buy if I had a choice.  Why not offer a trade in, rather than trade up, and let me put the payment towards other Sonos gear, not necessarily a like-for-like.

C
Userlevel 7
Badge +1

Further to some comments on the precious discussion (now closed) regarding a Raspberry Pi Multi Room Solution I found this https://support.hifiberry.com/hc/en-us/articles/205699981-How-to-build-a-multiroom-audio-system-based-on-Raspberry-Pi-and-Hifiberry

Anyone could set this up very easily should the Sonos System die when the Sonos Upgrade cocks up.

Don’t hold your breath……

Also thank you @AdrianB100 for the links above.

EDIT - Whilst I was writing the post from @AdrianB100 with the CEO’s Email address has mysteriously disappeared. I was just going to use it!

The email address is patrick.spence@sonos.com

P
Userlevel 4
Badge +1

Everyone needs to go to trust pilot.com, and every review site they can think of, and let Sonos know how they feel!

Just been there. Still had to give the b<&^/#s one star, though.

Just left my review. They are at a 1.4 trust score.  Seems right. 

 

 

Please keep this up. Remember Amazon, Bestbuy and local retailers!

 

 

 

 

 

 

A
Userlevel 6
Badge +11

Sonos is following in Boeing’s foot steps !! :rage:

 

Like it …. the new Sonos Play 737max      

….. a second of dark levity in an otherwise very dark and depressing time within the Sonos sphere.

K
Userlevel 7
Badge +4

Wow they’ve really screwed the pooch on this titanic mess of an announcement.  They can’t even sort out what products are legacy or modern, see pic below from their direct link in the “end of life” email yesterday.  The fish rots from the head…

modern product… really?!

fire from the top where the buck should stop! 

U
Userlevel 2

Interestingly,   Sonos encourage you to email there CEO directly if you want to talk to them.

However the link is greyed out today…   https://www.sonos.com/en/contact

Maybe his email box is full from irate customers like myself.

I did ring,  and left a voicemail for him….  as we cant email him anymore

This is the e-mail address patrick.spence@sonos.com

Thanks.  This is the email I just sent him:

 

Dear Patrick,

 

I understand you don't give a shit about your customers from the way you have treated us in the last few days.  Perhaps you will care about your share price.

 

I know this may not have occurred to you but virtually EVERY trader I know in the city of London is one of your customers and the majority will have one or two Play 5's.  Guess how they feel about your company now!

 

The hilarious thing is that most of them do not check their personal email often so I have spent two-three hours this afternoon informing them of your latest wheeze.  Most appreciate the short term cashflow benefit to your company (we all know you will still make money on each replacement even at a 30% discount) but all the analysts (most of whom also own your kit) agree that you've just eff'ed yourself in the long term.

 

Well done.  Harvard Business School will use this as a case study no doubt.

 

Hugs and kisses,

 

Richard (A former loyal customer and advocate)

 

PS I understand your behaviour has sparked interest in the halls of the EU Commission as well.  Imagine how your shareholders will appreciate that.

E
Userlevel 4
Badge +5

We could copy that onto pretty much any major electronics’ company message board, and it would apply to them.  Apple no longer supports the iPhone 4. 

And how many of your iPhone 5-11’s stopped receiving updates when the iPhone 4 got end of life’d?

Those iPhones are not an integrated system.  That’s a single product.   The whole point of a Sonos system is that everything has to work together and be on the same software.  That’s the core of its design.  The solution Sonos has given us is to separate our system into legacy and non legacy.  That solution stinks, but it goes to the point that the software only works properly if everything is on the same version because it is one system.  If you want to break it up into different single speakers, the newer ones will still work fine. 

U
Userlevel 1
Badge +2

Adding my frustration and disappointment to this forum.

I just bought my some of my connects last year before the new (more expensive version came out). I am an electrical engineer and know what goes into those connect systems - they are way overpriced, probably the highest margin products in Sonos’ product line. All the functionality of that system is available in a single chip with an external Wi-Fi device. Same with the Amps, you can get a great Yamaha or Denon connected receiver for less than that with a lot more functionality.

So with 17 Sonos components between me and my GF over a dozen years, I will now reconsider buying anymore. I just got a Move at Christmas from my GF and was considering buying a second to get a stereo pair. Well that’s now on hold.

I will wait and see what the impact of this lack of software upgrade and interoperability manifests itself as and then make a decision to continue investing in Sonos equipment.

Nick

Nicoli
J
Userlevel 6
Badge +1

Just recieved this email from sonos.

 

Hi there,

Thanks again for contacting Sonos.

We wanted to follow up and ensure that your case was resolved. If you need anything else, simply reply to this email and let us know that you need help. If all is well, keep an eye out for a follow-up survey shortly.

Thanks,
The Sonos Team

 

Does this mean they have abandoned the bricking of our equipment?

What else could  "case resolved" mean?

Is this "customer victory"? Im looking forwsrd to sonos clarifying what "resolved" means.

Has patrick spence quit as ceo?

Please clarify, sonos

John

R

Wow!  I decided to go with Sonos a while back when I thought it was the really best and customer focused product worth paying extra for.  Kind of like Apple.  Instead I’d have been better off going for the best priced competitor.  Won’t make this mistake again.

H

What the hell is going on?

I bought my complete set up all in one go…...2 x Sonos 1, 2 x Sonos 3, 1 x Sonos 5 and a bridge on 12/10/2017…… yes less than 3 years ago and your telling me half of it will be outdated in May??

 

 

L
Userlevel 3
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@Ryan S

Not a good look closing that other thread, you should rethink that.

My sentiments exactly.

Ryan - this is not personal at you - I think you are in an impossible position here representing the voice of Sonos at a time when the majority - me included - are mightily pissed at what’s happened over the past 24hrs.

Your post I’m afraid does nothing to allay fears, or offer any further information that we didn’t know already.

Sonos platitudes here aren’t wanted.  I would suggest that in light of the very fierce reaction witnessed on this support forum that Sonos cease from trying to make a seriously bad decision look something that somehow offers more support and continuing care for customers.

Afraid, like others, closing the original thread looks awful.  Don’t know if it was your decision, or whether someone at Sonos wanted it closed due to all the negativity - negativity brought about by themselves I would add!

It’s not just on this thread - word is out on the news networks here in the UK.  People will not buy new Sonos products if they think the shelf life is so limited.  Most of us here picked Sonos over other cheaper brands like the Amazon Echo Dot due to the quality of the product offered.  Sonos needs to commit to this customer loyalty by allowing legacy products to work alongside or instead of newer products, and allow customers the choice to upgrade stuff when they want to.

 

A
Userlevel 2

I bought my first Sonos products in 2005 and loved them.  15 years and 24 hours a day later and they are all running great - ASTONISHING!  I have 15 components now and I’ve been part of the Beta program helping to sort out bugs, even though it makes my experience more difficult than most.  I was part of an early program where Sonos would send a system to anybody I recommended for free, and they would pay only if they liked the system or send it back.  I got many others hooked on Sonos.  I now have a good mix of 15 Sonos components (10 legacy).   Like everybody else loyal to Sonos, I’m absolutely crushed at how Sonos has chosen to handle this.  There are better ways to address the older tech if Sonos cared about my experience.  I’m horrified at the thought of thousands of ‘recycle mode’ units in the dumpster.  Does Sonos not get that the investment is a loyalty decision, and that what Sonos does now will impact every sale in the future.  I don’t yet know where I go to from here, but I will say that it all depends on how Sonos chooses to deal with its (formerly?) very loyal community.  Do you hear us?  Or are you tone deaf?  Your move, Sonos - let’s see who you really are these days.

P
Userlevel 3
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We could copy that onto pretty much any major electronics’ company message board, and it would apply to them.  Apple no longer supports the iPhone 4. 

And how many of your iPhone 5-11’s stopped receiving updates when the iPhone 4 got end of life’d?

Those iPhones are not an integrated system.  That’s a single product.   The whole point of a Sonos system is that everything has to work together and be on the same software.  That’s the core of its design.  The solution Sonos has given us is to separate our system into legacy and non legacy.  That solution stinks, but it goes to the point that the software only works properly if everything is on the same version because it is one system.  If you want to break it up into different single speakers, the newer ones will still work fine. 

When I plug my legacy iPod classic into my Macbook, the Macbook still works.  I can still synch, add and delete.  My original Apple TV still works.  Apple are one of the biggest tech corps out there - there’s no way in hell they’d ever think that having some components integrated into a system should render the whole system as ‘legacy’ - it’s awful thinking.  Those of us who work in Tech are flabbergasted at this approach.  Those of us integrating legacy mainframe and AS400 systems into modern Oracle and Teradata environments are looking at this and thinking they need to hire better people.

I
Userlevel 1

We may choose to discontinue support for older versions of our products, resulting in customer dissatisfaction that could negatively affect our business and operating results.

We have historically maintained, and we believe our customers may expect, extensive backward compatibility for our older products and the software that supports them, allowing older products to continue to benefit from new software updates. We expect that in the near term, this backward compatibility will no longer be practical or cost-effective, and we may decrease or discontinue service for our older products. If we no longer provide extensive backward capability for our products, we may damage our relationship with our existing customers, as well as our reputation, brand loyalty and ability to attract new customers. For these reasons, any decision to decrease or discontinue backward capability may decrease sales and adversely affect our business, operating results and financial condition.

 

 

Source: https://s22.q4cdn.com/672173472/files/doc_financials/2019/q4/52d86c5b-248f-4939-aa85-1489c1828e7f.pdf#page=17

It was planned and they even predicted it in their own annual report of 2019 what’s happening now.

WTF?

melvimbe

@davidsjones76   You stated that:

 

It is inevitable that this will happen to every “smart” device at some point. Sonos, are just the first to do it. To name a few, we have had Bose, Yamaha, Denon, and B&O speakers over the last couple of years.

 

That’s not exactly accurate.  Bose for example, has dropped their entire line of smart speakers in the past while creating a brand new one.  They may still be offering some minimal support for the old line, but no new features and cannot be mixed with the new line.  There are also multiroom systems that have come and gone and thus consumers are not able to expand and grow with their original purchases.

 

Regardless, this change in support Sonos is making is probably negatively effecting a lot more customers than the other cases have, with probably more investment from customers.  It’s fair to say that this is a first in that regard.  

Danny
D

Basically I want my Sonos kit to keep working.  I don’t want voice control, I want Spotify, Audible and TuneIn to keep working.  
 

I’m happy to pay a subscription fee for this or even buy a simple central hub that contains upgraded memory etc to stream out to my legacy devices. I can’t see why this couldn’t be made a reality pretty easily.  

1
Userlevel 3
Badge +1

Tried to log in to post yesterday but suspect the servers could not handle it?

What is the point in adding to the pages of disgust. I ploughed through 5 pages with zero support for this action. Unlike the CR100 debacle there are no gloating trolls because even they too now realise they are getting screwed over by Sonos if not today then tomorrow.

It is now clear that the system architecture was flawed from the start and the technology part could never keep up and should have been split from the amplification and speakers a long time ago. Yes, Sonos would not have made so much money short term but would have long term.

I’ve no idea how this plays out from here but I said at CR100 time screw me again and I am done. It has come to pass.

To have ANY chance requires you to pare back the OS so whatever the legacy system is it is still supportable. 

What is completely incomprehensible after the CR100 debacle and knowing the outcry this would cause is coming out with an announcement with no clear idea what it means, how you will move forward or being able to answer the basic questions from the community. Coming out with clarification the next day and it still being clear as mud is rank amateur. Something as big as this should have been worked on for months. Poor Ryan hung out to dry.

You don’t deserve him. We do deserve you. You won’t deserve us.

T

30% is an insult to people who were early adopters of your technology and are know being penalised for it !, I have continued to build my System over the years to more and more rooms including playbar, beam, sub, several play 1’s and 5’s to now be upset that you will no longer support it an more upsetting this will also impact on later products if I choose to keep running !, 30% is not adequate to force change on loyal customers, very disappointed and urge you to rethink your offering 

Tony 

P

Good bye sonos bum move. 

Your product needs do 1 thing and 1 thing only - play streamed music.  Don't give me horse crap about cpu and memory.  Just a cash grab to get customers to spend more money.

No other wireless speaker I'm aware of has had to do this.  You telling me your legacy speakers can't handle updates from streaming services?  Goodness sake you are a tech company solution it! 

You will not get another £ from me and only last week was thinking of getting 2 more ones. Not anymore.

Oh and ps the tone of your email.  Not even an apology just a demand for action.  Eesh sack your PR man. 

Adios it was a fun journey whilst it lasted 

K
Userlevel 7
Badge +4

After 24 hours and 55 pages of comments (before it was closed) none of which are complimentary, here is my 2p worth.

As a past product marketing manager, here are a few key points to take into consideration when announcing a products end of support.

1. Give lots of notice and take into account how recently customers have purchased the product.

> 4 months is no notice at all really, I would expect 12 months to be reasonable, or 6 as an absolute minimum. I bought my first components in Jan 2015 and now my Connect Amp and Play 5 are declared end of support after this relatively short time.

2. Offer a painless route to upgrade the system.

> Offering 30% discount is far from painless, it is a significant additional investment just to retain current functionality. The idea also of scrapping the old hardware to recycling or worse landfill is outrageous. At least leave the units to be used for as long as they can, as by your own admission, that may not be long.

Consider a swap out at cost plus support expenses to make the exchange palatable. The current discount must still bring a good profit unless your margins are poor.

3. Be VERY clear about why you are doing this, the future benefits and the implications of retaining the current hardware.

I expect cost is the real driver here, memory and processing power is just a limitation as branching code and distributing two versions is  not rocket science, but at least he honest. I understand that sonos cannot predict what may happen with future changes to streaming services, but the total lack of clarity and certainty beggars belief. How long till the rest of my system is obsoleted as I now know I will be lucky to get 4 months notice. What great new ground breaking features are coming in May that is forcing this end of support for older speakers? The dual system possibly seems to something that may or may not work, but little information is being offered about it, we are promised more info in May. Will there still be an upgrade offer when the system breaks eventually, or is this just a short term offer? 

 

So in all you have made a real error of judgement here and have an uphill climb to resolve it, if that is even possible now. The sonos name is now badly tarnished and only a retraction and complete rethink of this proposal has any chance to recover the mess created. I really do hope some people from sonos are taking action based on this thread. Having closed the old tgread, posted a few minor clarifications and started a new one, I fear sonos simply aren't listening and underestimate the impact this will ultimately have on the company. 


I agree and I think the other huge blindside for their management team is just how many savvy tech industry folks invested heavily in the Sonos solution only to be jabbed in the eye with this horrible PR disaster.  They have clearly woken the sleeping giant on this one!  Investment firms will be listening, will the board? 

D

Although it will not likely result in anything here - I will post here saying that as a long-time customer (2007) of 11 pieces of Sonos equipment - I, too, am totally flabbergasted by the emails of Legacy Equipment and the thought of them being abandoned by Sonos in the near future.

Sonos - I do NOT want to ‘talk’ to my Play 5 Gen 1’s - I am fine with them playing my own media or mirroring content from my ‘Modern’ Sonos equipment. Please don’t brick them. A discount of 30% on inferior products is ludicrous - what manufacturer makes only 30% on their products?

Like so may others in the Sonos Community - I have recommended systems to any all people that would listen to me. Now these friends will no longer listen to any advise from me - thanks Sonos.

 

S

Wow way to lose your entire loyal customer base. To think I was about to buy a new set of SONOS speakers for the house extension. Me thinks I will wait and see how this pans out.  The thing about HiFi is it lasts generations. My best pair of B&W speakers are 20 years old and sound glorious. My Keff setup as well. It is not a smart Phone with a 18-24 month refresh cycle. I will be parking this right here and refusing to update as my system works fine for what I need. No new speakers will be added to the mix (which should make my wife happy).  

S

Having bought a number of Sonos speakers for the whole house, this announcement is very disappointing and have now made me rethink any future purchases as who is to say in another years time, SONOS decides to end of life other products.

 

This is truly a means to make more money.  BOSE looks like I am coming back to you.

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