Our New Quality and Customer Experience Commitments

If you’re continuing to have issues with the App and/or your Sonos devices and can easily reproduce them, but perhaps haven’t yet contacted Sonos Support, then maybe just give them a call.

Here is the link to contact them…

https://support.sonos.com/s/contact

Their App seems to be working okay here, but I guess different setups, hardware and Home networks can vary.

If you’re continuing to have issues with the App and/or your Sonos devices and can easily reproduce them, but perhaps haven’t yet contacted Sonos Support, then maybe just give them a call.

Here is the link to contact them…

https://support.sonos.com/s/contact

Their App seems to be working okay here, but I guess different setups, hardware and Home networks can vary.

Yes and so can the software, the old version of which was working pretty much ok until they messed it up.  I would point out my app is working in both locations insofar as the functionality is actually there and if I am prepared to wait around for it to respond just when I am going out or can remember to think I will be going out in a few minutes so maybe I should turn the Sonos off, or to fiddle with unresponsiveness by closing it down and openign it again, turning wifi on and off, seperatign grouped speakers and grouping them again, just to get it to do what it should do, blah, blah, blah

When I have a spare hour or two I might try getting through to them to see if they come up with anything other than ‘it is issues with your network’.   Not so kindly disposed to Sonos as I used to be when they can do this sort of thing to their customers especially when they probably knew the cloud based app would cause some of these issues before they released it.

Aspects of the new Sonos App are not all cloud based - device/group volume-control, for example, is local.

If things are that unresponsive, then it could be a wide range of things, from poor device SNR levels, overlapping channels, channel-width, or not taking opportunity to use the faster 5Ghz band where available etc. … to intermittent mDNS/SsDP device discovery issues - so it’s certainly worth speaking to their Support Staff to see if they can maybe assist.

I certainly will at some point but it all started with the new app!

It all started with the new app! And I am just one of very many!

It all started with the new app! And I am just one of very many!

….

Not exactly.

It started with the new App and new firmware.

The App is just a fancy remote control that can’t impact a lot of the Sonos system,

The firmware is the heart of the system and impacts everything.

Oh please spare me the patronising  technical pedantry. Firmware probably  requiring the new app or visa versa. Yes. 

...Either way the app is not working as well as the ole one on two systems with no other obvious changes made. The majority of the changes were enforced by Sonos updates to firmware and app.

As mentioned, the Sonos App works okay here - see attached iPhone XR controller searching for your user name (in part) ‘Kevin B’ - I appreciate it’s actually no help to show you that the App works, but the message here that I’m selling, is to simply contact Sonos Support and maybe see if they can assist you to resolve your issues with the App. At the very least you can give them the information/diagnostic data that may lead to improving your own Sonos experience.

I do appreciate though we each may have different Home/Sonos setups with different network hardware/connections etc.

Anyhow, nothing ventured etc…

Ken_Griffiths wrote:

kevinboardley wrote:

...Either way the app is not working as well as the ole one on two systems with no other obvious changes made. The majority of the changes were enforced by Sonos updates to firmware and app.

As mentioned, the Sonos App works okay here - see attached iPhone XR controller searching for your user name (in part) ‘Kevin B’ - I appreciate it’s actually no help to show you that the App works, but the message here that I’m selling, is to simply contact Sonos Support and maybe see if they can assist you to resolve your issues with the App. At the very least you can give them the information/diagnostic data that may lead to improving your own Sonos experience.

I do appreciate though we each may have different Home/Sonos setups with different network hardware/connections etc.

Anyhow, nothing ventured etc…

 

Thanks. I am pleased that the app works fine for you. 

I will contact Sonos when I can find a couple fo spare hours.

But I haven't said I have any issues with search...once the app has connected to system. It is mainly unresponsiveness with regard to finding/connecting to speakers, grouping, ungrouping, volume changes, laggy display issues (artwork, actual track playing) etc etc. Once the connection is established the search works fine (not that one can usually do a lot with the results given other issues that are still ongoing like the huge numbers of ‘albums’ to scroll through becuase of the ‘compilation album’ issues.

All the things that many other people are complaining about.  For most it seems, these became problems with the rollout of the new app/firmware over the exact same network setups that were working pretty well with the old app/firmware.  However you look at that, regardless of individiual system/network variables, something that was baiscally working was broken by the rollout of the new app/firmware for many users.  Unless all these people are just making it up. Which if course they are not. 

I’m not seeing the latency issues you mention ​@kevinboardley. I don’t have issues with mDNS/SSDP ‘device discovery’ either - that’s clear in the previous post, which shows the Sonos ‘rooms’ are all connected in a matter of seconds after opening the App from a fully closed state. Similarly I don’t see the issues with grouping/ungrouping, volume adjustment etc. like you mention.

I tend to run the compatible Sonos devices ‘steered’ onto the faster 5Ghz WiFi bands (6AX mesh) where available and ensure their SNR readings (in every case) are set at 45dB, or higher.  I don’t wire anything Sonos, but do have a core wired network backhaul. IP addresses are reserved high up in the subnet to keep them out the way of other DHCP assigned addresses and the 2.4Ghz band uses non-overlapping channels with a channel-width of 20MHz only to help keep interference to a minimum.

So those are the sort of things Sonos Support maybe able to assist you with, if that proves necessary. Maybe some of those basic network improvements will go onto help eradicate some of the latency you describe.🤞There are a number of settings with some mobile controllers that can help improve Sonos device discovery too in some cases and Support Staff apparently have tools at their disposal that can maybe assist with those things aswell once you provide them with the diagnostic data and information about your setup.

Anyhow I hope you are able to get the matters you are seeing sorted with the Sonos Support Staff.

Ken, I would like to understand a bit more before I contact Sonos.  Despite being fairly IT literate, I fear that many of your strategies to make Sonos work well may be way beyond my capabilities and/or inclination in terms of effort just to listen to a music library (in common with most others who buy Sonos I suspect). I can just hear my friends saying ‘get a life’.

But can you please explain?

1. ‘steered’ onto the faster 5Ghz WiFi bands (6AX mesh)”” - I understand the first bit and could probably do that.  But what is 6AX Mesh? 
2. ensure their SNR readings (in every case) are set at 45dB, or higher” - ?  how would this be achieved?
3. “nothing wired but  do have a core wired network backhaul”” - backhaul? what does this mean?
4. reserved IP Addresses high up in the subnet to keep them out the way of other DHCP assigned addresses” - I think I did once try assigning IP addresses and as far as I recall on it’s own it didn’t seem to make the slightest bit of difference and that was with the old app/firmware BUT remind me, where is this done? Via router.
5. “2.4Ghz band uses non-overlapping channels with a channel-width of 20MHz only to help keep interference to a minimum” - I sort of understand the gist; again how is this achieved in a big city environment where there are many devices connected all around which compete for the available bandwidth on various frequencies? (this is location of one of my systems - the other being in a rural area with only one or two competing neighbours and even then much farther away than in the city location).  Both systems show all the lagginess issues.
6. Do I need a particular router/network standard to implement some of your sugggestions?  I have a FritzBox 7530 with a repeater, which I think is configured correctly but am unable to ascertain if devices are using the repeater or not.

Try as I might I suspect I will not find any of these sorts of configuration steps mentioned in the Sonos sales pitch in their website or elsewhere, the configuration guides etc, and for very good reason.  Because if they did mention these sorts of requirements, it would affect their sales.

​@kevinboardley,

I can already see a ‘potential’ issue with your network and that’s with your WiFi range extender as those are often mentioned on the Sonos system requirements as being part of an incompatible network setup and that’s before I begin answering your questions, Not least such extenders in some cases can interrupt the mDNS/SSDP device discovery packets I mentioned earlier. I would personally blacklist your mobile controller and Sonos products from using that network AP just as a first step - better still switch to a WiFi mesh system instead - WiFi 6AX is a standard of WiFi by the way similar to WiFi 5 or WiFi 6E etc.

Sonos is most compatible these days with WiFi 5AC

Anyhow back to your other questions…

See this link for Sonos device SNR levels when running Sonos devices on a WiFi network:

https://support.sonos.com/en-us/article/understanding-the-network-details-section-in-the-sonos-app

It shows where to find the SNR level of your Sonos products and their connection to the 2.4Ghz or 5Ghz band - ideally if it’s possible you want to get all, or the majority, of your devices onto the faster 5Ghz band with an SNR reading of 45dB or higher. Device discovery is only as fast as your slowest Sonos player that responds to the controller,  so ensure you have strong connections. A WiFi repeater in this regard might be an obstacle to discovery here.

Note not all Sonos products can connect using 5Ghz band, but most can - I’ll post a list here later.

Steering devices onto the 5Ghz band can be done in most routers, simply by blacklisting their MAC addresses for the 2.4Ghz band in the router settings. YMMV - I don’t know your router brand, but have seen them mentioned before here in this community often with problems associated to them.

Reserving IP addresses so that they are fixed on the network is done on the router DHCP reservation table and whilst not essential, it can assist with device discovery and is particularly helpful when Sonos products are updated in one fell swoop. It stops IP addresses getting duplicated with some routers.

Backhaul - Mesh Hub access points are wired back to the same switch - it can be the router switch or (as in my case) a large switch adjacent to the router. Although devices are wireless to the nearest AP, the communication is mostly wired back to the router.

In a big city, scan and find the least used 2.4Ghz band from channels 1, 6 or 11 and use the least used for your 2.4Ghz band. Set the channel-width to 20Mhz only to help keep interference to a minimum. Again these changes are all done in the router configuration pages and in some cases your ISP support or possibly Sonos Support maybe able to assist you make these changes, if necessary.

My own thoughts are that your WiFi extender may possibly be a part of your current issues, but that’s just a guess on my part.

​@kevinboardley,
As mentioned in my last post…

These Sonos products support a 5Ghz WiFi connection:

• Play:1
• Play:3
• Play:5 (Gen 2)
• Sub (Gen 1)
• Sub (Gen 2)
• Era 100
• Era 300
• Move 2
• Roam
• Roam 2
• Roam SL
• Five
• Move
• One (Gen 1)
• One (Gen 2)
• One SL
• Port
• Arc Ultra
• Sub (Gen 3 & 4)
• Sub Mini
• SYMFONISK Bookshelf (Gen 2)
• SYMFONISK Floor lamp
• SYMFONISK Picture frame
• SYMFONISK Table lamp (Gen 2)
• SYMFONISK Bookshelf (Gen 1)

Thanks for that Ken.  But wow.  One really can need a lot of time, energy and expertise to get Sonos to work! Possibly needing to contact my ISP, Sonos as well as configuring through my router!!!  Just to play some music!  Hmmmm.

I don’t understand a lot of what you said.  Feel like I am embarking on a long learning curve. Where to start….

My second system (in the rural area) uses same router model but has no repeater in the setup; that system has the same issues.    Might this be one of the things you mention in your answer above?  Don;t want to go throwing good money after bad.

In terms of “blacklisting my mobile controller and Sonos products from using that network AP just as a first step, that is presumably done in my router somewhere...but I cannot see anything in my router set up pages that obviously tells me that a device is using either main router or extender. They just seem to be one, if I am interpreting correctly.

“better still switch to a WiFi mesh system instead - WiFi 6AX is a standard of WiFi” does that mean changing my router?

Don’t think I’m revealing anythgng I shouldn’t here:

Image deleted

Well I’m only trying to assist you here Kevin to get your Sonos setup working from the info you provide, you would likely find that speaking to Sonos Support might be your best bet, as they apparently have tools at their disposal that can often assist.

I appreciate some things may sound a little over the top, but that’s just the fact of things when trying to troubleshoot a system that isn’t working, from a distance and communicating via a forum.

By the way it’s not the case for everyone, in the case of many of our family and friends, their Sonos setup works fine with little, or no, network configuration changes, but I guess everyone’s setup is different.

Whilst I’ve expressed a few of the changes I would make to your setup, (oh and I can think of some other things too besides the ones I’ve covered so far) you may go onto find that when you speak to Sonos Support that only one or two changes are necessary, or Sonos may need to perhaps change things their end with an App/Firmware update etc. 

Anyhow I was just trying to assist but it’s really a matter for you if you want to try to get the issues resolved. I think a call to Sonos Support would be the best step to take and see what they may advise.

Thanks

That’s okay, no worries - just to quickly mention the image of your router you posted (briefly) before you removed it struck me that you were in fact using SonosNet - as I say I’m not familiar with that brand of router, but thats what appeared to be the case, in which instance you might want to consider changing that and use your own WiFi signal instead of the internal connection. Anyhow see what Sonos Support advise. Mention the WiFi extender to them aswell.👍

Will do

If I am using SonosNet, I don’t think it’s anything to do specifically with the FritzBox Router supplied by my ISP.  Didn’t Sonos devices used to use SonosNet (a proprietry MESH developed by Sonos)?  Can you tell me where that was obvious to you

The names to the right are just names I have applied to the device in my router to quickly identify each device listed there….I am not using a Boost at this location which I think is required for using SonosNet?

I do have ione wired speaker in this setup.  Does that activate SonosNet?

Yes some (not all) Sonos devices initiate SonosNet when wired - the giveaway in your router configuration pages is the fact they are showing a 100MB/s LAN connection. 

SonosNet is slow these days (by comparison to modern WiFi networks) - it uses the slower 2.4Ghz band - that’s not to say it might be fine, just there are other faster opportunities - as an example. if I link a laptop to a speaker running over SonosNet, I’m lucky if I can get 12MB/s on a good day - on a WiFi mesh setup I can get 600+MB/s on the 5Ghz band with that same laptop.

If you do decide to stick with SonosNet ensure the wired device is linked directly to the router only and is set at least 1 metre away from the router, or any other wireless device. Set its channel in the Sonos App to a completely different non-overlapping channel too compared to the router channel. Make sure the router is using a non-overlapping channel aswell, with a channel-width of 20Mhz, as mentioned earlier. Alternatively, try running all on your router WiFi instead - on a 5Ghz channel if possible and with decent SNR levels showing in the Sonos App. Every little adjustment may help resolve your issues.

Thanks Ken.  Starting to get a feel for the task ahead.

Just as a counterpoint, there are others of us who prefer a 2.4 GHz connection, which provides enough bandwidth for music, and offers a greater distance and penetration than a 5Ghz signal does. 

I happen to still run SonosNet, using a BOOST, as I don’t have a speaker near my router that could be wired. I happen to like having my music ‘separated’ from other network use, although it may not really make any difference. 

I don’t think I would use SonosNet in a city/built-up area as the 5Ghz band is often faster, with far less interference - but the speed difference/responsiveness alone and Sonos device discovery, is just noticeably quicker.

I found it far more noticeable when stepping back to SonosNet, albeit briefly, it was like stepping back from a new fast PC, or mobile device, to a real old one and realising just how slow the old one was compared to the new.

It’s horses for courses though, I guess.

I tried once to persuade a friend to upgrade his Windows PC and his response was "Why would I, I can’t type any faster than I do now”. Which is fair comment I guess. He was happy to wait the 8 minutes, or so, for it to boot up too etc. Installs & Updates seemed to take forever, but c'est la vie.