Please note that we’ve created a new thread with some clarifications to questions that have come up several times in this thread. Please see here to continue the discussion if you still have any questions. The information contained in this thread is outdated and may no longer be accurate.
We have some important news regarding our oldest Sonos devices shared on the Sonos Blog today. The text of that blog post is being included here for your convenience:
Starting in May 2020, some of our oldest products will no longer receive software updates or new features. We want to explain why and your options.
When we first set out almost 20 years ago to invent the technology to easily listen to any song in any room, most of the ways we listen to music today did not exist. In fact, the first Sonos products were introduced before the first iPhone was announced and when Myspace still ruled social media.
In order to invent multi-room music and smart speakers, we combined the worlds of high-fidelity audio and computing. Every Sonos product has a microprocessor, flash memory, and other hardware components typically found in computers and smartphones.
Since launching our first products, technology has advanced at an exponential rate; from streaming services and voice assistants to wireless networking and Bluetooth capabilities. Through all of this transformation, we have continued delivering new features via software updates. We’re extremely proud of the fact that we build products that last a long time, and that listeners continue to enjoy them. In fact, 92% of the products we’ve ever shipped are still in use today. That is unheard of in the world of consumer electronics. However, we’ve now come to a point where some of the oldest products have been stretched to their technical limits in terms of memory and processing power.
This coming May, these legacy products—our original Zone Players, Connect, and Connect:Amp (launched in 2006; includes versions sold until 2015), first-generation Play:5 (launched 2009), CR200 (launched 2009), and Bridge (launched 2007)—will no longer receive software updates or new features.
Today the Sonos experience relies on an interconnected ecosystem, giving you access to more than 100 streaming services, voice assistants, and control options like Apple AirPlay 2. Without new software updates, access to services and overall functionality of your sound system will eventually be disrupted, particularly as partners evolve their technology.
To help you through this transition, we’re providing two options:
Option 1: Continue using these legacy products, recognizing that your system will no longer receive software updates and new features.
Option 2: Trade up to a new Sonos product with a 30% credit for each legacy product you replace.
If you’re not sure if your products are affected, you can check in the System tab in your sonos.com-account
If you choose to participate in the trade up program, your legacy products will be put in Recycle Mode, a state that deletes personally identifiable information and prepares these products for e-recycling. Recycle Mode also protects unsuspecting people from buying legacy products that are approaching the end of their useful life and won’t provide the Sonos experience customers expect today. Recycle Mode will only apply to the legacy products listed above.
We ask that you take your legacy products to a nearby certified e-recycling facility. This is the most environmentally friendly way to recycle. That said, if there isn’t a facility in your area, we are happy to pay for you to ship your products back to Sonos for responsible recycling.
Ideally all our products would last forever, but for now we’re limited by the existing technology. Our responsibility here is threefold: build products that last a long time; continually look for ways to make our products more environmentally friendly through materials, packaging, and our supply chain and take responsibility for helping you through the transition once products near the end of their useful life.
We’ve always believed in freedom of choice, whether that means choosing a certain streaming service or way to control your listening experience. We hope the choices provided here—continuing to use these products without new software updates or trading up to our modern products—enable you to make the choice that’s right for you.
We are honored to have a place in your home and want to make sure that we help continue to bring the best experience we can, even when products reach the end of their useful life.
So while everybody is talking about sustainability and avoiding unnecessary waste - SONOS is planning on making a business model out of bricking perfectly working products just to push out even more plastic and waste.
This is one of the worst examples of thinking profit above planet. NOBODY believes your story behind this nightmare. This is nothing but a sales exercise.
Shame on you!
How long before ALL Connects are defined as Legacy? Or the earlier Play:1’s?
Sonos have always downplayed the internal changes whenever someone noticed a slight change on an existing model. Seems those changes were more significant than they are letting on?
My trust in Sonos is simply gone - this is an extraordinarily sad day for what was once such a reliable and (comparatively) trustworthy brand.
You can use this to make an educated guess
Makes grim reading for my Playbar, Play:3 and multitude of Play:1's..
I bet everything without Airplay connectivity is due for the chopping block sooner rather than later..
Absolutely furious - the new products don’t add anything I want. I run speakers in my bedroom with a ZP100 and to my expensive home stereo with ZP80 (+ 2 other ZP80’s). I also recently bought a Sonos Beam for my TV which doesn’t work properly either I might add - keeps making my Sony Bravia reboot.
This is a mercenary cash grab. They could have easily put a fork in their programming code for legacy products and continued to support them. I’m an ex programmer. They just want a perpetual income stream.
I won’t be coming to the party and falling for their scam any more. Never again will I buy Sonos and I’ll be telling everyone of my friends what they have done. I guessed this would happen in another post here in the past and sure enough despite people saying it wouldn’t happen they have done exactly what I thought they’d do. Shysters.
Simply a stupid business decision. If the consequences are as presented in this announcement, and no legacy compatibility is provided by May, I have bought my last Sonos device. Let’s wait and see...
Immediate impact is, that all extensions to my Sonos system were just put on hold until further notice… and while waiting, I have started educating myself with Bluesound and Linn, and maybe some other options too.
I am truly surprised if this announcement does not hurt Sonos sales. But even if it does not, my direction is out unless things change by May.
The trade discount of 30% is a joke - in practise it means : buy your device again if you wish to continue using it!
Well what a huge announcement.
When I buy Hi-Fi equipment I expect it to last a lifetime. With a brand like Sonos that's what I expected, a quality sound system that would last a long time.
With this news, it has eventual system bricking written all over it.
This is just gouging your customer base.
Offering a 30% rebate is also a joke.
Sonos had better guarantee that they won't be bricking legacy equipment.
I certainly won't upgrading my existing equipment nor purchasing any addition Sonos gear unless there are guarantees that legacy gear won't be bricked.
And why would I buy any more of your products to replace my ZP100 and ZP80’s - you'll just stop supporting them too.
I wouldn’t trust Sonos now as far as I could throw them.
They should be developing their software so it can see older hardware and provide the reduced feature set to them. That doesn’t include taking away a feature it already has and managed perfectly well…. streaming a music service provider. That requires ZERO extra cpu/memory power.
That’s exactly correct, and it’s obvious they’re lying if they say it’s impossible.
However what it would be for them is “unprofitable”, where holding people ransom will be profitable provided enough customers simply acquiesce.
The environmental vandalism alone is absolutely outrageous, it’s not like the new Sonos units are built from the recycled units, and much of the finite resources will end up in landfill.
Letting them get away with this behaviour and make a profit from it would just embolden other companies to do the same.
This is incredible behaviour from the company! I would understand a need to replace the bridge to update entire system or taking products to ”hard updates” but to force sell with a threat of entire system becoming obsolete is outrageous. I have close to ten different peaces and latest ones bought as late a october. The rebate and the process is insufficient for upgrade. I strongly urge the company to shape up and start acting responsibly. For me to spend €1000 to maintain current system is serious enough to consider leaving Sonos all together.
I have re-worded the email that Sonos sent me as an open letter reply to them…..
Your loyal customer base requires attention From May, a lot of your loyal customers will have some units classified as legacy and no longer receive software updates and new features. This will affect your share price.
Please note that because Sonos customers are loyal, it does not mean that we will continue to buy your products. If modern products that remain connected to legacy products after May, do not update, then your company is likely to fail.
You have options
Develop a method so that the system can continue using legacy products even if that means reducing functionality on those legacy products. Most of us just want them to play good music.
You can continue down your current business model. However, in May 2020, if our systems no longer receive software updates and new features then over time, this is likely to disrupt access to your revenue and ultimately the performance of your stock.
Trade up legacy products Recognise your early adopters, champions and advocates with a much more generous trade up offer. Also be mindful of the environment. Deliberately bricking hardware via your trade up scheme is wasteful and unethical. Consider hardware upgrades or not bricking at all.
Subject to terms and conditions. More information Read this article to learn more about what the end of software updates means for your company performance, and please contact us if you have any additional questions.
This is the 3rd or 4th time Sonos has pulled this not supporting Legacy products that I know of. I am sure there are more instances because I do not read the forums that much. Seems like there are alot more people affected by it this time round though.
Its a cash grab and a huge waste of perfectly good equipment. It will happen again too.
Will never trust this company again.
This is sad on so many fronts. I was concerned that the trade up programme was an attempt to poison the 2nd hand market. After all it was only a matter of time before bricked products were being sold.
Now the fact that all my ‘Modern’ products will stop receiving updates unless I remove my legacy products, makes me feel like the sword of damocles hangs over my investment. The day the Play:1’s are retired will wipe out a lot of equipment.
The fact is Sonos have a working mesh system now that by and large is very good. All the old equipment supports it. Are they really trying to say that they are going to make changes to thier own system that renders it incompatible with the earlier versions?...there is absolutely no reason for this unless the modern equipment is so close to the edge that they cannot accodate the code to support both the legacy sonosnet and whatever fantastic unrequested features they are planning. Simply put there is no need to stop upgrades to ‘Modern’ devices simply because a legacy device exists.
If and it is a big if, there is a technical reason why the current generation will not be able to stay compatible with the classic sonosnet and the ‘new’ future then the solution is simple. Introduce a SonosHub. SonosHub can then register any legacy products, talk to them using the existing protocols and translate between the classic sonosnet and whatever it evolves into.
Make it cheap enough and I figure many of us would accept that the SonosHub will require periodic upgrades. So as long as you have a SonosHub that is no older than say 5 years it will keep all your existing Sonos gear alive without freezing the support of ‘modern’ equipment. An income stream, and customers that are not worried about the next wave of disconinued products.
Alternatively let the community do the heavy lifting. Give us the ability to develop our own software and upload it to our devices and we will fix this problem of legacy support in no time.
I think Sonos is missing the major hit on reputation that this represents. Their products are not cheap, but have had a reputation of lasting a long while. Today that is evaporating.
I'm sure if they brought out a "Legacy Hub" (which is an excellent idea!) there would be a few complaints but expecting people to "upgrade" 10+ units in some cases is mind boggling.
They really have screwed this up big time shooting the people who made Sonos the company they are today straight in the foot.
Most of my gear is in "Phase 2" obsolescence by the look of it and clock's ticking..
Still really upset about this. Look Sonos, I get that you can’t provide updates for my 2006 ZP-80 forever but you have made a total mess of this.
Problem 1: The newer model is ridiculously expensive and 13+ years later you don’t even have up-to-date WiFi
Problem 2: Having to upgrade the whole system at once
Problem 3: Not giving us enough notice. Anything less than a year is an insult.
I’d love to see Sonos thrive and prosper against the tech giants like Amazon. But Amazon like most successful business are fanatical about making their customers happy. Sonos, you are insulting your customers. This is going to cost you dearly.
Sonos was a premium product in the years 2006-2014 when I bought most of my devices - all suddenly obsolete. The new hardware doesn’t cut it frankly, with only 2.4Ghz WiFi and some ports removed here and there. And increased price!
Supposing I’m willing to upgrade anyway, then you need to make old and new compatible. I get that an old Sonos player might struggle running a big software application that knows about 100 music streaming service. I don’t get why you can’t make a Sonos application that knows one thing: how to stream music from new Sonos players.
Imagine that, a new virtual music service, let’s call it “Sonosify”. Fork the software. Branch A supports legacy devices with security updates, integration into “Sonosify”, ability to play/pause/group etc. - i.e. multi-room audio as we have now. Branch B is the brain, only capable of running on newer Sonos hardware. It can cope with streaming services and voice assistants.
Then, any user who wants updates for all the streaming services just needs to buy one Sonos device from the new generation. Sure, you can still end of life the old ones, but it can be gradually, with plenty of notice.
If that idea is not possible, at least fix the other things. Give people plenty of warning. Update your hardware or cut the cost.
I think a major problem is that SONOS needs to better explain the specifics of the impact, the reasons for the impact on legacy systems, and the options going forward from here.
(1) What I am hearing is that they need to update the SONOS control app on the smart phone. And that changes to the app will require some matching changes to the software on the SONOS devices. And that they won’t make those needed matching changes to the legacy devices. (the functional impact is discussed later) Is that a correct summary? (a) It is not clear if the changes are not technically possible (lack of memory?) or if SONOS just don’t want to make that investment. It would be good to hear an answer to that. (b) why is it not possible for the app to be programmed with a compatibility mode to work with legacy devices just as it does prior to the May 2020 cutoff?
(2) If I update a control app after May2020, what exactly is the impact on that app working with the legacy devices? Is there some guide as to what functionality might be lost? For example, perhaps only certain new streaming services may not be available, though streaming from my NAS based music collection would be OK. Or it may be that even basic communication between unmatched app and devices would be lost (turning the legacy devices into expensive bricks)?
(3) If we do not update our SONOS smartphone/tablet control app after the May2020 cutoff, then the app will continue to work with our devices indefinitely after that point, though any newly discovered bugs will not be fixed. This can be accomplished by turning off the “Update Automatically” setting and not manually approving any app updates. Is that a correct summary?
(4) The catch is that without new software updates, our frozen control app would no longer be able to support the newer devices, even with old functionality? SONOS statements imply that there is likely more lost than just new functionality (which many of us do not care about), but could impact current functionality. Is that correct?
Would the frozen legacy control app be able to work with the newer “modern” SONOS devices, limited to old functionality? Would it matter whether the “modern” devices have newer software updates? It would be good to have a clear answer on that.
(5) Further, there is a possibility that SONOS will provide for download of the pre-May2020 control application for use on any new smart device, should I change smart phone or tablet in the future.(or need to delete/reload in a recovery situation). Is that correct, and when would we see that as an available download?
(6) Is it possible to use two different smart devices, one with the frozen legacy app and one with the current supported app. In that case, I should be able to control and update “modern” SONOS devices from one while using the legacy app to control, at least, the legacy devices and perhaps even all my SONOS devices (with old function scope)?
(7) SONOS is saying all of this is driven by the major music streaming servers changing their interfaces. It is not clear if they are talking about control interfaces or about streaming protocols. If the impact of the streaming servers changes is a control interface used only by the SONOS control app, than SONOS should be able to isolate that impact to the control app and still maintain backwards compatibility with the SONOS devices. Correct? Or does the SONOS device need to work with that same changed streaming service control interface?
If the impact is directly to the software in the SONOS network which is doing the streaming, then only that streaming device needs to be modern. The streaming SONOS device should be able to forward that music content to the other SONOS players/speakers using the old protocols. All of my devices have te ability to stream from the server, but I gather for any particular music stream, only one handles that streaming and passes the content to the rest (in a synchronized fashion).
This is an important point since, if true, you would only need to ensure that there is one “modern” SONOS device, in the network, for each different streaming source, in order to handle any streaming interface issues. I only use one source at a time, so I would only need one “modern” device. (I am making some educated guesses about the overall design of the SONOS network). Is there validity to what I am saying?
************************************** The customers just need to better understanding of the situation and what alternate paths we have going forward. Doing so can be a big win for both SONOS and their customers **************************************
@Michael Arones, thanks for taking the time to write up such detailed questions. Several of these are questions that will be answered later this year when we have more to share. For people who keep their legacy devices and have a fully legacy system, or maybe mixed with modern, we don’t expect any immediate impact from ending the software updates. These systems will continue to work as they do today, or in May, but will not receive future updates. As mentioned before, changes that are made to technology in the future, particularly by music service and voice partners, can cause access to those services or features to be disrupted. This would be mostly in connection protocol on the back end, not just visual changes in their apps.
“Several of these are questions that will be answered later this year”
Errr Sorry, I think you need to be answering them now or very quickly!
I doubt I’m on my own here but I certainly won't be hanging around… I’m already looking at alternatives and with the view of ditching Sonos. Later this year is no good to me or Sonos, by then I’ll not have Sonos and Sonos may not have that many customers left.
It is time to fork:
Keep going on the current track and add whatever you want for new devices.
A fork of the current release of the code with continued support for your loyal customers, which remains updated to assure current functionality.
If Sonos is no longer capable or willing to maintain the fork just release it as Open Source software and let the community keep the devices working.
NeedSleep, Registration date is not the date Sonos sold the device, it is the date the current owner registered it.
I don’t think it is. I have had my system since well before 2017 (2007 some units) but they show as being registered in 2017 in my account. It’s very odd.
The annoying part is having to cough up another AU$1048 (US$716) to maintain support on 2 x Play 5 Gen1.
My Sonos respect is disappearing the same as my Apple respect has been lost.
I wouldn’t put it past Sonos to deliverately kill the performance of the Play 5 Gen 1 with a “sneaky mal-update”
When you add the original outlay of US$1000 for the original 2 x Play 5 Gen 1 to the “bargain” price of US$717 of the 2 x Play Gen2 - I get US$1717 for 2 speakers - not such a great deal.
Am I wrong to be thinking this way?
I bought two play:5 devices in 2014 that still work perfectly. I‘m supposed to ditch them now (sooner or later) and replace for two gen2 devices for the SAME price I paid in 2015. And that is including the 30% rebate.
The worst thing about this whole disaster: I totally don‘t believe Sonos that it‘s not technically possible to provide continuous support for these devices to at least maintain the current functionality. It‘s a lie and you know it. Totally lost my trust in a company that I previously didn‘t consider to be on the dark side of the force.
Indeed shameful attitude to what was a leading tech company. Totally unacceptable.
A sad day indeed !
i have 7 Sonos products that will be ‘obsolete’.
i will, of course, never buy a Sonos product again.
30% discount ? Change the words: 70% rip off !
R.I.P.
# boycottsonos take to twitter and social media f*** sonos
@Ryan S
Like many people on this forum I was incredibly disappointed by the announcement that my Sonos Amps have just been relegated to being paperweights.
A simple question:
On the basis that all other Sonos products will invariably become end of life at some stage, how long have my original Play:1 speakers got left before they're also rendered obsolete?
Where’s Greta when you need her?
My Bose cube surround system lasted over 22 years and was still working when I swapped it for my Sonos sub, play bar and play 1’s.
interesting my play 1 won’t be bricked and it’s older than the 2 play 5’s I have, no replacement lol.
Sonos you idiots.
Oh, and before you reply "we have no plans to stop supporting other devices", I assume you had no plan to stop supporting the ones announced today but it happened. And it will happen to other devices.
So please, while Sonos still has a few loyal supporters, how about being up front about other devices that contain limited memory or older components (which I think was the bullsh1t excuse for today's announcement), as I'm 100% sure Sonos knows which other items are at high risk of obsolescence.
If anything this has exposed the underlying weakness in their code. No one is expecting the older devices to support the newer features, but the fact they are unwilling or unable to gracefully depreciate these older models speaks volumes.
They would rather spend more resources on developing the new hardware than developing a solution that demonstrates they really do value Sustainability and Responsibility as much as their marketing BS suggests.
The 30% ”trade-up” off full RRP is a joke - we know they can afford more - particularly since the Port and Amp are so overpriced. Plus if it was unpalatable before this announcement, it’s downright repulsive to consider rewarding Sonos for this strategy by throwing good money after bad.
What really sucks though is that I’m sure their PR and marketing drones are busy reassuring management that this blowback is all fine and expected and a necessary step towards an inexplicably better Sonos? It’s just so depressing.
Agreed. A lot of people, including myself, bought into Sonos because they didn’t build in obsolescence like other tech companies. Now they have.
I also have two Play 5 Gen 1’s so replacement will cost £700. Even the “trade-in” is disingenuous. The current selling prices on ebay are higher than the 30% they’re offering.
