Contributor I

S2 Update 14.12 Sub Issues

84 replies
14266 views

Hello,

With the recent 14.12 S2 Update there is a bug in the sub settings when using Trueplay, and I've pinpointed the problem. I wanted to pass along this information to the company to ensure that the specifics of the issue are known.

It’s likely that most people may not notice this, or bother asking Sonos about it, but this is a real difference between 14.12 and the previous versions.

My current setup has an Arc, Sub(Gen1), and 2 Play1's.
- Using a white noise generator to review these differences.
- I'm controlling the sub settings on my iPad Pro while recording on my iPhone 12 Pro Max.
- I've run Trueplay twice since the update, and get the same results both times.
  - Both Trueplay runs were with my iPhone as my iPad Pro does not have support yet.
Once updated to 14.12, you are prompted to re-run Trueplay. But Trueplay has a bug in this new update.
I tested the frequencies with Trueplay On and then Off without changing the volume on the App.
- The only setting modified is the "Sub Audio" setting that ranges from -15 to +15
These differences are absolutely unique to the 14.12 update
- I did not take pics, but have done similar tests before and the sub settings always increase/decrease all of the frequencies below the crossover
- In previous versions, 40hz was always the highest db of any frequency when bossting the sub volume.

Trueplay On with Bass and Treble set to 0:

Sub = 0:
- There is about a 4-5db reduction in the 30-60hz range and a boost in the 60-80hz range compared to Trueplay off
Sub = +15:
- Here is where you see the issue. Sub 50hz doesn't change much at all even boosting the sub setting to the max
- There is a huge boost in the 60-80hz range where it is now the dominate frequency range of the sub

Trueplay Off with Bass, and Treble set to 0:

Sub = 0
- You can already see a difference in that the <50hz frequencies are higher and it's a pretty flat wave.
Sub = +15
- Notice that now the dominate frequency range is the 35-50hz.
- The 60-80hz is still boosted, but it does not ever overtake the lower frequencies
Lastly, here is a grouped view showing these pictures side by side so you can really see the difference.
- It also includes going -15 on the sub
Could it be a High Pass Filter setting that is getting triggered when you run TruePlay?
If you do not like the way your system sounds after 14.12, turn off Trueplay.
- It will not be as good as what you are used to as Trueplay will adjust more to your room and leave less peaks/valleys throughout the spectrum.
- But it will still be more like what you are used to hearing.

I can provide more information if needed, but hopefully this helps pinpoint the issue for everyone.

Thank you for your time,

Robert

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S

Sveti

Lyricist III

Hello,

With the recent 14.12 S2 Update there is a bug in the sub settings when using Trueplay, and I've pinpointed the problem. I wanted to pass along this information to the company to ensure that the specifics of the issue are known.

It’s likely that most people may not notice this, or bother asking Sonos about it, but this is a real difference between 14.12 and the previous versions.

My current setup has an Arc, Sub(Gen1), and 2 Play1's.
- Using a white noise generator to review these differences.
- I'm controlling the sub settings on my iPad Pro while recording on my iPhone 12 Pro Max.
- I've run Trueplay twice since the update, and get the same results both times.
  - Both Trueplay runs were with my iPhone as my iPad Pro does not have support yet.
Once updated to 14.12, you are prompted to re-run Trueplay. But Trueplay has a bug in this new update.
I tested the frequencies with Trueplay On and then Off without changing the volume on the App.
- The only setting modified is the "Sub Audio" setting that ranges from -15 to +15
These differences are absolutely unique to the 14.12 update
- I did not take pics, but have done similar tests before and the sub settings always increase/decrease all of the frequencies below the crossover
- In previous versions, 40hz was always the highest db of any frequency when bossting the sub volume.

Trueplay On with Bass and Treble set to 0:

Sub = 0:
- There is about a 4-5db reduction in the 30-60hz range and a boost in the 60-80hz range compared to Trueplay off
Sub = +15:
- Here is where you see the issue. Sub 50hz doesn't change much at all even boosting the sub setting to the max
- There is a huge boost in the 60-80hz range where it is now the dominate frequency range of the sub

Trueplay Off with Bass, and Treble set to 0:

Sub = 0
- You can already see a difference in that the <50hz frequencies are higher and it's a pretty flat wave.
Sub = +15
- Notice that now the dominate frequency range is the 35-50hz.
- The 60-80hz is still boosted, but it does not ever overtake the lower frequencies
Lastly, here is a grouped view showing these pictures side by side so you can really see the difference.
- It also includes going -15 on the sub
Could it be a High Pass Filter setting that is getting triggered when you run TruePlay?
If you do not like the way your system sounds after 14.12, turn off Trueplay.
- It will not be as good as what you are used to as Trueplay will adjust more to your room and leave less peaks/valleys throughout the spectrum.
- But it will still be more like what you are used to hearing.

I can provide more information if needed, but hopefully this helps pinpoint the issue for everyone.

Thank you for your time,

Robert

Sonos fix the sub tuning now! The new Arc dsp might be personal preference overall but the sub having strongly reduced sub bass output is obviously just to reduce the gap to the sub mini. That is horrible behavior and I highly doubt that this is just a bug. This fits the story line too well. Shame on you product managers at Sonos!

M

marinheira

Avid Contributor I

I confirm this. Sound seems globally better, but something is wrong with TruePlay calibration of the Sub.

My Sub Gen 3 seems to disappear with TruePlay on, and comes back to life if I turn TruPlay off.

Is there any moderator out there that can forward this to whoever has the responsibility and the power to fix this?

Sonos product are hands down superior, but ruining them with these disastrous updates just turn them into very unreliable products after all.

Before the update sound was very good, except, maybe the center channel on the Arc, that was a bit weak with Atoms contents.

Right now dialogues seem way better but they almost muted the sub.

R

ropfeilAuthor

Contributor I

Hello,

Sorry I haven’t replied to your questions yet. I’ve been busy with work. I unfortunately don’t have any pics of the graphs from before the update. I have messed around with it previously and the pre-update Trueplay was much more like the Trueplay Off in my post. The frequencies had less peaks and valleys, but 100% the Sub Audio tuning modified the 40hz the most.

It’s actually the reason why I returned the Gen3 sub and got a Gen1 sub instead. I thought the 40hz was too much in the Gen3, but in the Gen1 it is a few db less. That makes a huge difference for me in that I can turn up the sub without the 40hz drowning out the 60-80hz.

But the latest update goes a whole different direction. At it’s peak, the 60hz is 20db more than the 40hz when Trueplay is On. When Trueplay is off, the 40hz is 4-6db more than the 60hz. So a 24+db swing between Trueplay Off and On.

I was hoping that this would be picked up by support. I’ve tried waiting in the chat, but get stuck in a queue and can’t be at this computer all the time. But it looks like no one from the company has posted so I’ll try to do the chat again tonight.

If someone gets in before then, please point them to this post and then let us know what is said.

Dogdad

Headliner III

Hello,

Sorry I haven’t replied to your questions yet. I’ve been busy with work. I unfortunately don’t have any pics of the graphs from before the update. I have messed around with it previously and the pre-update Trueplay was much more like the Trueplay Off in my post. The frequencies had less peaks and valleys, but 100% the Sub Audio tuning modified the 40hz the most.

It’s actually the reason why I returned the Gen3 sub and got a Gen1 sub instead. I thought the 40hz was too much in the Gen3, but in the Gen1 it is a few db less. That makes a huge difference for me in that I can turn up the sub without the 40hz drowning out the 60-80hz.

But the latest update goes a whole different direction. At it’s peak, the 60hz is 20db more than the 40hz when Trueplay is On. When Trueplay is off, the 40hz is 4-6db more than the 60hz. So a 24+db swing between Trueplay Off and On.

I was hoping that this would be picked up by support. I’ve tried waiting in the chat, but get stuck in a queue and can’t be at this computer all the time. But it looks like no one from the company has posted so I’ll try to do the chat again tonight.

If someone gets in before then, please point them to this post and then let us know what is said.

Go to YouTube and look at Peter Pee’s breakdown on all this crap with the arc and such. He did the spectrum before and after the upgrade and shows videos of the testing.

R

ropfeilAuthor

Contributor I

Hello,

Sorry I haven’t replied to your questions yet. I’ve been busy with work. I unfortunately don’t have any pics of the graphs from before the update. I have messed around with it previously and the pre-update Trueplay was much more like the Trueplay Off in my post. The frequencies had less peaks and valleys, but 100% the Sub Audio tuning modified the 40hz the most.

It’s actually the reason why I returned the Gen3 sub and got a Gen1 sub instead. I thought the 40hz was too much in the Gen3, but in the Gen1 it is a few db less. That makes a huge difference for me in that I can turn up the sub without the 40hz drowning out the 60-80hz.

But the latest update goes a whole different direction. At it’s peak, the 60hz is 20db more than the 40hz when Trueplay is On. When Trueplay is off, the 40hz is 4-6db more than the 60hz. So a 24+db swing between Trueplay Off and On.

I was hoping that this would be picked up by support. I’ve tried waiting in the chat, but get stuck in a queue and can’t be at this computer all the time. But it looks like no one from the company has posted so I’ll try to do the chat again tonight.

If someone gets in before then, please point them to this post and then let us know what is said.

Go to YouTube and look at Peter Pee’s breakdown on all this crap with the arc and such. He did the spectrum before and after the upgrade and shows videos of the testing.

His is only the arc though. I think any issues with the arc are completely different than this issue with the sub itself.

I think the arc changes are much more subtle than the sub, but they are different in an known attempt to help with the the center channel dialog volume and to provide better spatial awareness.

The sub changes are unannounced and yet they are drastically different than before. Which it why it looks like a bug to me.

I haven’t really spent time on whether I like the arc more now. My initial listen I did, but not so sure at the moment.

I really need to test it without the sub as the changes to the sub are overpowering and it makes it more difficult to A/B.

R

ropfeilAuthor

Contributor I

I was able to spend some time and talk with the Support team. This has been escalated to their specialists and they’ll take a look and let us know what they find. Thanks everyone for commenting and confirming what I was hearing and seeing in the frequency charts.

M

marinheira

Avid Contributor I

Hello,

Sorry I haven’t replied to your questions yet. I’ve been busy with work. I unfortunately don’t have any pics of the graphs from before the update. I have messed around with it previously and the pre-update Trueplay was much more like the Trueplay Off in my post. The frequencies had less peaks and valleys, but 100% the Sub Audio tuning modified the 40hz the most.

It’s actually the reason why I returned the Gen3 sub and got a Gen1 sub instead. I thought the 40hz was too much in the Gen3, but in the Gen1 it is a few db less. That makes a huge difference for me in that I can turn up the sub without the 40hz drowning out the 60-80hz.

But the latest update goes a whole different direction. At it’s peak, the 60hz is 20db more than the 40hz when Trueplay is On. When Trueplay is off, the 40hz is 4-6db more than the 60hz. So a 24+db swing between Trueplay Off and On.

I was hoping that this would be picked up by support. I’ve tried waiting in the chat, but get stuck in a queue and can’t be at this computer all the time. But it looks like no one from the company has posted so I’ll try to do the chat again tonight.

If someone gets in before then, please point them to this post and then let us know what is said.

I’ve been on support chat for about 2 hours last night.

After all th me troubleshooting steps performed, with no changes to the system, I shared this post with the support representative.
According to him, he shared this thread with the development team so they can check.
Let’s hope this help us getting the issues sorted out.
Fingers crossed.

A

arcosin

Enthusiast II

I was able to spend some time and talk with the Support team. This has been escalated to their specialists and they’ll take a look and let us know what they find. Thanks everyone for commenting and confirming what I was hearing and seeing in the frequency charts.

We all know what escalating to the “specialists” mean in this company.

R

ropfeilAuthor

Contributor I

I was able to spend some time and talk with the Support team. This has been escalated to their specialists and they’ll take a look and let us know what they find. Thanks everyone for commenting and confirming what I was hearing and seeing in the frequency charts.

We all know what escalating to the “specialists” mean in this company.

Had a similar discussion in Reddit, but will post here too.

I get the frustration from consumers when dealing with support but I also know how it works within support and understand their side as well.

I work in software and sit between support and engineering. I am the “Specialist” when support can’t figure out the problem. When issues come in, there is a lot of natural hesitation to believe the person who is complaining.

There are so many cases where someone complains about an issue like “my sub low end is gone!” Only to find out the sub is turned off in the app, or it’s not plugged in, or they are playing ‘And Justice For All’ which may not have any frequency below 100hz.

If you work in support long enough you’ll end up with that attitude whether you realize it or not. It takes a conscious effort to not do it.

You need someone at the company that will see the problem and push support and engineering to actually look at it and not just brush it off.

Knowing this, I set out to try and provide enough info so that someone who understands the in and outs of the code will read it and understand there is an issue.

Hopefully that person exists at Sonos.

skullc

Prodigy III

@ropfeil i have the issues with all my sonos speakers and have contacted support with all the information I could having worked on IT support the more information you the faster the fix.

Both my 5's and sub plus my moves have no bass heavy mids and a decidedly poor sound signature as my arc has

Turning truplay off helps but isn't ideal support has a case open for me and I have supplied multiple diagnostics to them

Fingers crossed

Network= livewire cpe pro 3 +eero 6 pro wireless

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