Enthusiast II

Era 300 rear driver is silent (with Arc Ultra)

393 replies
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First things first. This is not a rant. This is an expalation of a problem, which reduces the experience in 3D audio a lot. For background: I'm a sound engineer and music producer and I don't wanna sound arrogant, but I know what I'm talking about. (I'm a really nice and funny guy :D)

So lets get to the problem then :D

NO I'M NOT TALKING ABOUT THE FRONT FACING DRIVER

for better understanding watch this VIDEO

This bug appeared the moment I switched the Arc with the Arc Ultra. Before I made the switch I was on the 16.1 app and firmware. So I don't know if the Ultra causes the problem or the app/firmware. Before the switch everything was running as it should.

So, since there is not much of a topic around this, I'm curious if I am still one of a few who have this bug or one of a few who noticed it.

I made this post in Reddit, but not everyone is on Reddit and the more people know, the faster Sonos can work on it. Reddit discussion

I didn't saw any review which mentioned it.
As you can see in the video, the rear driver is completly silenent when the Era 300's are paired with the Arc Ultra. Also Truplay isn't "sweeping" the driver either. (Timestamp 0:44)
So the mesurement isn't right.
First I thought it could be a feature instead of a bug, but it doens't fit the Dolby Atmos recommendations like this. You won't get sound from "behind" your seating position.
And I remember Sonos self promoted it how it should work, where the rear driver is playing.

DOLBY ATMOS LAYOUT

Sound from side driver/channel should boucing off your side walls, rear driver/channel bouncing off the back wall of your seating position and height channel obviosly bouncing off your ceiling. Thats why you should position them facing forward. At the moment you don't get the immersion that sound is coming from behind you, since the driver is silent.

I tested every setting, played the Dolby Atmos testfile (MKV [TrueHD Atmos] and MP4 [EAC3 + joc Atmos]) from different sources (TV Plex app, Nvidia Shield, from a USB through TV) Same result everytime.

If someone could test this behavior and can confirm this, it would be very nice. Sonos can't fix something they don't know and if most people doens't recognize doens't mean something isn't wrong.

Currently I'm running app version 80.12.04 (Android) and 80.12.03 (iPhone) and firmware version 81.1-58210.
If you don't have this problem, what version are you running?

And last but not least: IF this ever getting fixed, the experience with Arc Ultra and Era 300 will be much better! I love my Sonos products soundwise and Arc Ultra is sounding really good, but it could be much better.

Have a nice day

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Pinned Reply By Jamie A

Hi all, thank you all for your patience.

I was going to post at the same time as Keith on Reddit, however I wasn’t able to. I see that the link to the reddit post has already been copied here, but just to confirm what you've already discovered, this is expected behaviour as explained by our audio team.

I’m happy to forward any questions and feedback you have, as well as forward this as a feature request.

The side tweeters on the Arc Ultra are “overpowering” the bonded rear surrounds.
Side channels are virtualized by both the Arc Ultra and Era 300’s. While you can use “Surround Audio” features to dial in the sound level of your preference there are a few important things to keep in mind:

Surround TV Level and Music Level Slider Behavior: The surround level sliders adjust the sound level for both the Arc Ultra and the surround channels equally. This is the intended behavior.

Using Surround Distance Setting to Adjust Rear Sound Levels: The surround distance setting can be modified to influence the output level from the rear speakers relative to the sound bar:

Setting it to “Less than 2 feet (0.6m)” reduces the volume from the rear speakers.
Setting it to “More than 10 feet (3m)” increases the volume from the rear speakers.

Perceptible Differences: While the surround distance slider adjusts the levels equally for both the Arc Ultra and the surround speakers, testing has indicated that listeners may perceive differences in the sound from the listening position, as described above.

Impact of Trueplay: The surround distance setting is disabled when Trueplay is active, as Trueplay automatically corrects for this. To adjust the surround distance, Trueplay must first be disabled.

There is no audible output from inner woofers when Era 300 is bonded as rear surrounds.
This is by design. The rear speakers are designed to disperse sound throughout the room, rather than directing it to the listener exclusively.

The Era 300 plays rear channel audio through its height array.
This, too, is by design. The Era 300’s DSP (Digital Signal Processing) leverages either the rear height tweeter OR the outward-facing tweeter/woofer to create the intended sound experience. Because of this, when you play the Dolby test track, you might notice that rear height channel as being active during rear-channel playback. This is expected.

Edit: Modified the wording on the 2nd and 3rd bolded points to closer match the wording in the app.

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D

Dan01

Lyricist I

Here is my take on it from a software engineer.

It is not what everyone, including myself, wants to hear but Sonos engineers probably did know about the bug with the era 300s and surround sound before they were released.

It would have been flagged either by the engineers or by QC. The bug would have then gone up the chain of management and a decision made about if it’s a ‘showstopper’ or not and the impact of pushing back the release date of the arc ultra would have on the business. Also the likelihood of people noticing the bug before it is fixed.

The bit that concerns me is why haven’t respected review companies like rtings done a review on the immersive setup. Also respected YouTubers like PeterPee haven’t mentioned it either. It’s either luck that they haven’t done one yet or other reasons……but how damming would an extremely poor review, which is what it would achieve currently, be for the company and its flagship product going forward.

Full transparency - I am a Sonos fan boy and have been for years. I have a set of era 300s ready to setup for my new home cinema but am holding back until this issue is resolved. I am also lucky that I have not really experienced any of the app issues.

S

Spaxx24

Trending Lyricist II

The bit that concerns me is why haven’t respected review companies like rtings done a review on the immersive setup. Also respected YouTubers like PeterPee haven’t mentioned it either. It’s either luck that they haven’t done one yet or other reasons……but how damming would an extremely poor review, which is what it would achieve currently, be for the company and its flagship product going forward.

I honestly think they just didnt notice. I didnt notice it until this thread (at first I didnt even read it proper and just tested that rear channels made a noice, so I thought everything worked, it wasnt until weeks later I read it again and realized it was coming from the wrong channel, and not being disabled 100%) and I downloaded the test files. I cant say I really even notice it during movies now even. Maybe I’m just a bad listener :)

dominikleiAuthor

Enthusiast II

I got a feedback from Sonos support germany today. I just copy it.

The Era 300 is designed to disperse sound throughout the room rather than directing it solely at the user.
The Era 300's DSP (Digital Signal Processing) leverages either the rear height tweeter Or the outward-facing tweeter/woofer to create the intended sound experience.
When playing a Dolby test track, some customers may notice the rear height channel active during rear-channel playback. This behavior is intentional and part of the designed sound experience

I don't know what to think about that tbh.

@Corry P is that true? because you said you were aware of the PROBLEM, but apparently it is a feature, not a but?

S

Spaxx24

Trending Lyricist II

I got a feedback from Sonos support germany today. I just copy it.

The Era 300 is designed to disperse sound throughout the room rather than directing it solely at the user.
The Era 300's DSP (Digital Signal Processing) leverages either the rear height tweeter Or the outward-facing tweeter/woofer to create the intended sound experience.
When playing a Dolby test track, some customers may notice the rear height channel active during rear-channel playback. This behavior is intentional and part of the designed sound experience

I don't know what to think about that tbh.

@Corry P is that true? because you said you were aware of the PROBLEM, but apparently it is a feature, not a but?

From experience in working in CS I would say this is most likely wrong. CS is usally great for solving normal problems, but when something is actually wrong on the product side it is useless

What I have noticed though is that when I for example watch a football game(real football ofc, not NA-soccer) sound does seem to come through the inner speaker.

S

superlollo

Enthusiast II

I got a feedback from Sonos support germany today. I just copy it.

The Era 300 is designed to disperse sound throughout the room rather than directing it solely at the user.
The Era 300's DSP (Digital Signal Processing) leverages either the rear height tweeter Or the outward-facing tweeter/woofer to create the intended sound experience.
When playing a Dolby test track, some customers may notice the rear height channel active during rear-channel playback. This behavior is intentional and part of the designed sound experience

I don't know what to think about that tbh.

@Corry P is that true? because you said you were aware of the PROBLEM, but apparently it is a feature, not a but?

can’t imagine this being true, why did they add the inner tweeter to the Era 300 if it’s never to be used?

@Corry P can we have an official statement on this? Is this being recognized as a problem and is it actively being worked on by the developers?

dominikleiAuthor

Enthusiast II

I replied to the Sonos support, because that answer was really unsatisfying.
Here is a quick ChatGPT translation from german to english:

Unfortunately, this is not what I had hoped for, and I believe many other users won't be satisfied either.

This behavior of the Era 300 doesn't just occur with the Arc Ultra but also with the Arc Gen1 and Beam Gen2, where the balance suffers even more than with the Ultra. Moreover, it is technically incorrect, and the design of the Era 300 was never intended for this. As I mentioned during our first conversation, this wasn’t the case before, and if it was changed, as you said, with the launch of the Ultra, for the Ultra, why does it also affect the original Arc and Beam Gen2? Attached, you will find a photo illustrating how the Era 300 should function correctly and as Sonos has often described it. Photo

I fully understand that reflections are utilized, but a tweeter reflects much better than a midrange driver. That’s why the high channels in the Arc Ultra were switched from midrange drivers (as in the Arc Gen1) to tweeters. Disabling these in the Era 300 to have them reflect upwards is simply not correct and can cause disturbances in some movie scenes in the form of phase issues or distortions. This happens because, in the current setup, two signals or channels are routed through one Tweeter (the height tweeters).

When playing back 5.1 or 7.1 content, I can even understand this change. It’s a nice gimmick to also have 3D audio immersion. However, with Dolby Atmos, compressing two signals or channels through one Tweeter seems very problematic from a technical perspective.

Just to be clear, I am not criticizing the Sonos employee, he is just telling me, what the Sonos team told him.
However, I strongly criticize Sonos decision, as it is technically questionable, and several people here and on Reddit are complaining about it.

S

Spaxx24

Trending Lyricist II

It will be interesting to see some kind of response again. But personally in more inclined to "Trust" what Corey wrote before

dominikleiAuthor

Enthusiast II

I just added something to the mail.

What is also questionable is why the inner side of the speakers, that is, the rear channel, is not measured during Trueplay. As a result, the desired volume of the midrange speaker cannot be measured at all in this case.
Somehow, the whole thing seems incomplete.

Additionally, an employee posted in the Sonos forum that Sonos is aware of a bug but does not know when it will be fixed. These statements don’t really match up.

Please fix this 😭 I just want my Era 300 as before, they performed so much better without this "feature" or bug or whatever.

G

GuitarSuperstar

Lead Maestro

@dominiklei Did that Sonos employee explain why the inside driver doesn’t fire when playing a non-Atmos 7.1 test tones audio track? The rear surround channel still plays from the top driver.

"Receive with simplicity everything that happens to you." - Rashi

A

aprajs

Lyricist II

Just logged in to mention that I’m experiencing the same issue—Arc Ultra with Era 300. This is unbelievable. It’s like buying a Ferrari and discovering it’s limited to 50 mph driving on 4 cylinders, because some engineers didn’t have time to activate the other four cylinders.

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