I think this is my build date: 2004, so April of 2020?

Still waiting on the new one to be delivered.  Hope it comes before my afternoon meetings so I can plug it in right away and test.

New one arrived and hooked up. 

2007 (so July 2020) is on the back above the Arc logo, so you can compare the previous post with my old build, if I’m even providing the right information on that. 

Initially I thought it might have sounded a little better.  I didn’t trueplay tune, I didn’t add my surrounds and just listened to the clips I’ve found where the bass sound muddy for me.  I played those clips and they sounded maybe a little better?  I tried to turn the bass up to +5 to amplify the muddy bass and it didn’t seem as apparent.  I turned it back down to 0 after that.

I then Trueplayed (iPhone 6s) and added my surrounds and immediately noticed the same sound as my previous Arc.  (EQ is reset from this and I didn’t adjust it)

I’ll be shipping back my old Arc as it’s required and keeping this new Arc but sadly have to report that I think it sounds the same as the previous one.  Perhaps it’s Sonos expectations that they sound like this and you need a sub to truly hear it sound good, which is a big bummer.

My hope is that the rumored future ‘testing’ that was mentioned on Reddit is true and that we still have tweaks/issues they are addressing and that the support teams are a bit disconnected from that. 

If I was within my return window, I would likely return it but sadly I’m not.  I have to put my faith into Sonos and hope that some future testing comes that improve things… crossing my fingers.

That's unfortunately just about what I suspected the case would be for you bbalz. I still beleive that whilst the Arc can hold its own at lower volumes it has always been intended to be used with the sub. I think Sonos have shot themselves in the foot here a bit as it was advertised as a standalone unit and whilst it may satisfy a majority of people there are those of us it doesn't. Rightly so we have the right to complain when such a large amount of money has been spent on the Arc for it to sound poor at anything above 30% volume. Sonos seem to think they have fixed the issue, I think not.

So I have now installed a Samsung system (with sub) and there is no doubt about it the 2 systems are chalk and cheese. On the Samsung bar the speech is clearer, the sounstage appears wider and whilst the bass at lower volumes is less pronounced (but in a good way), at higher volumes...well you may as well be sitting in a cinema, the floor and sofa literally vibrate and shake. I had a smile on my face everytime I thought about it yesterday!

I will be returning my Arc now and whilst I realise I could possibly have added the sub to get a similar experience it would have meant spending another £600 to do so. I bought the whole new system for £800 so this means I haven't had to spend anymore or need to be disappointed with the £800 I have spent.

I really feel for all those invested in Sonos and feel let down by the Arc 'upgrade', which for some has turned out to be more of a downgrade. For those without a problem you are the lucky ones or perhaps just prefer not to hear it given the amount invested in the brand. If I've learnt something from this community (and other Sonos related forums) it's that a fair few Sonos owners will love their equipment whatever the company throws at them. Brand snobbery brings out a lot of idiots and I'm sure alot of you on here will no the ones I'm talking about. Me, I'm happy to not be involved in such infantile games and will vote with my ears not a name that makes you seem elite, your not.

I'll be checking in now and again (without comment) to see if anything can be done to salvage the bass problem only for interest, like many others I fear the hardware is at its limit. I wish you all well and genuinely hope you find a resolution whichever path you may take. 

Aside from muddy bass issue some are having. The way you’re describing the Samsung bass, makes me think you have some sort of unreasonable expectation from a soundbar. “Makes the room shake” legit needs a subwoofer to do that. You cannot have a soundbar that does that. Unless it’s very big and has big woofers. That was not the design decision that sonos made. I hope people fix their muddy bass problems! For sure it shouldn’t rattle or distort past 30 percent mine certainly doesn’t. But a soundbar won’t make the room shake, the playbar didn’t de beam certainly does not.

i think your issue is you think sonos is too expensive for the sound. Which might be a valid comment. You can certainly find soundbars wirh subwoofers to make the room shake for much cheaper. For sonos people are paying for other things. If they want the room to shake they know they need a subwoofer. Or at the very least a play 5 for great bass performance.

the playbar and arc are adequate for movies in how much bass they have especially in medium to smaller rooms. Now keep in mind I am not saying muddy bass or distorted bass is expected from a soundbar. BUT room shaking bass isn’t either 

I also tested a Samsung q80 I think, without the sub it was absolutely useless ... more tone deaf than Arc. I belive that all soundbars need a sub and Sonos should have sold it that way. 

Yeah that is a SONOS marketing decision, doing a sub plus arc combo would have been more expensive at least $1500 and some people dont want to spend that much. Also, MANY are happy with the Arc bass output without a sub.  Regardless, I think no one should have expectations of a subwoofer out of a soundbar. I repeat I am not saying muddy bass is acceptable or distorting at normal volumes. Not at all. BUT I see people here saying oh X soundbar with a sub rattles my room that is what I wanted! No, you will never get that out of a soundbar no matter if it’s $2500 like the Seinheiser Ambeo - that does have very good bass but it is HUGE.

How was it with the sub? I also believe that beam plus sub gen 2 (which you can get for a similar price of Arc around Black Friday) will sound better than standalone Arc. 

I agree with you if you want adequate speech and good bass this will sound better. It has the great sonos sub! But if you care about atmos, and better soundstage and clearer speech then Arc is way to go. This is why i think it is very subjective. I greatly appreciated the speech improvement over the playbar coming to arc.

That’s terrible to hear the issue is still present on a July build soundbar. I’ve said it b4 I’m fine with lack of bass from the stand alone Arc. But I’m not fine with the quality of the bass. It’s flubby and distorted.

I should only have to buy a sub if I want more bass, NOT to fix distorted bass. Many people have reported the Beam and Playbar don’t have this issue without a sub. I still think something wacky is going on with the DSP / Crossover.

Frustrating.

i run the sonos arc + rears without a sub and for my 35 square meter living room the bass is even too strong and space-filling. If I had a sub, I would have to set it to minus 7 and that's why sonos decided to offer the arc without a sub. a right decision for me. sonos developed the arc without the sub for people who live in a medium-sized flat, and for those of us who own a house and are allowed to live without neighbors, sonos offers the subwoofer. everything done right.

Absolutely okay for movies when you have Samsung Sub, clearly a wide sound image.  Then it had some shortcomings such as 50% sound volume when playing spotify.  The bottom line is that I let my wife choose.  Told the price for the party cost and she always complains about my purchases.  She thought Arc with sub sounded better on both film and music which is important to us.  Samsung was good but set against each other Sonos sub sounds very nice.  The sad thing is that it remains a bit of a base problem for the arc and with the sub it costs like a smaller car!

Yeah, anyone who owns a large(ish) standalone house who thinks ANY soundbar will have sufficient bass without a sub is delusional.

That said, it sounds like there are some issues with the QUALITY of the bass (not quantity) that many are experiencing for whatever reason and that these issues aren’t present on smaller/older Sonos soundbars such as the Beam.  That’s a problem.

That would be like an auto manufacturer releasing a $25,000 vehicle which outperformed their $50,000 model in every aspect.  I can’t imagine that was Sonos’s intent with the release of the Arc, but many people say the Beam currently sounds better.  Again, that’s a problem.

Problem is not the lack of bass, but the muddy and thud type nature of the bass. I am not sure if this can be fixed by DSP given the size of the woofers in the Arc. For deep and clean bass, sub is the way to go. The update did get rid of the wobbling and farting bass to a great extent.

I do not deny that we humans differ in our perception, only what some users complain here is very difficult to understand for a company like Sonos. i'm sure that if the sound engineers understood what muddy bass means, they would solve this problem too. a bass tone or a bass signal cannot be spongy for a soundbar like the arc. its quantization can be inconsistent, which would be fatal, in other words, the bass drum can be heard for milliseconds earlier than the bass. a sound engineer can fix this problem, but no farting bass. a company like sonos can make the mistake instead of class d amplifiers to build in weaker amplifiers so that the boxes with the low frequencies would be overwhelmed, which in our case the arc is not. Then there is the question of definition: what is farting bass, what is dirty bass, how do I defend dull bass? if the beam sounded better to some than the arc, then not because the arc sounded worse, but because the physics of the beam was the right choice for the target group because 11 class d boxes cannot sound worse than 8 class d boxes. So we're talking about different perceptions, different target groups. updates will not fix bass problems in the future, but rather frequency ranges will be shifted and with each shift our perception will also shift. 

(sorry if bad english, i work with the google translator)

Im just hoping and am pretty sure the sound engineers and customer relations are on different pages i can see the appeal for marketing to call the issue fixed and put it out there while the guys in the back room are hopefully fine tuning things. Just hope this info is trickling back to them.

I wouldn’t be too eager with the new testing that’s happening.  There’s no movement on the the muddy bass that is happening.  All that is being routed through the ‘care team’ so expect to be asked the same questions, RMA units over and over.

Sonos update 12.0.5 just been released. Dunno if it sorts out your bass issues or not ‍♂️ 

Just says it’s “Performance enhancement and improved reliability” in the Apple Store 

There also is a firmware update, it’s now build 58180080.

curious to know if we have to do a new Trueplay

I tend to retune after update. Whether you do need to or not, I’m not sure 

Each time there’s an update the support people who I’ve been dealing with since the beginning tell me to remove my surrounds and re-tune the Arc by itself and see how it sounds… send diagnostics. Add the surrounds, see if the sound is better/worse and send more diagnostics. 

haven't had luck either way myself and according to @portwash, apparently they aren’t looking into the muddy or wobbly bass with the new testing that is happening and just routing you to the support team.

in time it’ll probably be addressed but almost wish they’d just give me a 30% off for a sub and I think I’d just buy it to be done with all the testing they’re asking me to do 

After the new update and new Trueplay it does not sound better, bass is terrible

Yeah it’s still sounding really terrible. Completely unlistenable.

While I understand some people think the bass isn’t quite there and not as good as it should be. I’m very baffled by this type of comments. Because 1) I would never say it’s unlistenable and others that have heard mine don’t think so either. (Maybe you can argue not performing at the $800) but terrible garbage unlistenable certainly NOT.

2. kind of wondering why someone would buy a speaker for $800 and think it’s unlistenable and garbage and keep it?? Oh well…

Agreed. Mine is great. They talk about paid reviews - these guys sound like paid trolls.