Hey Sonos, @Scott - Sonos, @Jean C. 

As I write this, we’re on page 41. We’ve all noted that communication from Sonos has been spotty at best. Sonos seems to believe that we should all trust the company to get this right, even on little to no information. Here is what I would ask:
1. Acknowledge the problem(s) that Sonos is working on with the Arc.

2. Give us some idea of a time frame or at least what you are pursuing regarding a fix.

3. Extend the return window for customers beyond the 45 days for those who log a ticket with support.

There seem to be a number of users with this problem. Extending the return window gives us all confidence that we’re not going to be stuck with a subpar soundbar. It gives Sonos a bunch of users to test builds or updates on. I’m afraid if you don’t fix this soon or do something like suggested to give us some assurance, you’ll end up with a pile of used Arcs and lose the feedback you desperately need to make this product what it should be. Not to mention that anyone buying an Arc is also highly likely to buy additional Sonos product. This isn’t just a single sale, but your future customers that you are winning or losing depending on how you handle this.

Here is a snippet of the Compression graph from RTINGS.com in red it shows the Arc at high volume and on green it shows the Beam at high volume. There is a noticeable dip there for red, this is not what is expected at that range. Note this only happens at high volume. The other green (mostly flat line) is the Arc at 80dB SPL level (not as loud) which is flat as it is ideal. It is normal for speakers to struggle at higher volumes but theres a clear issue for the bass response for the Arc at high volume.

 

Here is the summary with the score, pretty poor score even lower than Beam and Playbar.

 

 

Here is another score that is lower than expected, and it points to the metallic sound/ tinny sound some are experiencing (theres another post for that issue)

 

Find it hard to believe SONOS didnt test these type of things before pushing the Arc out of the door. So it makes me wonder what is going on….

@Scott - Sonos @Jean C. 

So they pretty much applied the bandstop filter for higher volumes. No bass no problem. That’s great, Sonos!  You should know better than this.

Here is a snippet of the Compression graph from RTINGS.com in red it shows the Arc at high volume and on green it shows the Beam at high volume. There is a noticeable dip there for red, this is not what is expected at that range. Note this only happens at high volume. The other green (mostly flat line) is the Arc at 80dB SPL level (not as loud) which is flat as it is ideal. It is normal for speakers to struggle at higher volumes but theres a clear issue for the bass response for the Arc at high volume.

 

Here is the summary with the score, pretty poor score even lower than Beam and Playbar.

 

 

Here is another score that is lower than expected, and it points to the metallic sound/ tinny sound some are experiencing (theres another post for that issue)

 

Find it hard to believe SONOS didnt test these type of things before pushing the Arc out of the door. So it makes me wonder what is going on….

@Scott - Sonos @Jean C. 

So they pretty much applied the bandstop filter for higher volumes. No bass no problem. That’s great, Sonos!  You should know better than this.

This is also consistent with Peter Pee’s video where he shows the Arc smooths out at 120 hz, but struggles below that

My return window is arriving soon. The added sub takes away some of the shortcomings. However if the issues are not getting fixed, should I keep it or return it? I don't want to be stuck with a flawed product for which I paid a good amount of money. Should I return it and get a beam? 

I haven’t heard anything specifically saying they are working on this and have asked directly. I was told that a technician would be in touch with me that could speak more to that, but that hasn’t happened. I put in my original ticket on 6/26. Every time I contact support I get told that my case has been escalated and someone will be in touch, but it doesn’t happen. The automated email I get in response says in big bold letters across the bottom “No Call Escalation - Audio Issues”. All that to say, if you can live with it, they’ll probably get it right, eventually. I have a Beam and Arc and the Beam is warmer, has more fluid lows and is less fatiguing to listen to. It just doesn’t get that loud or fill a larger room.

Same with my case. Exactly the same process. Ugh

I’m in the same predicament, but already made up my mind: mine stays. I like the overall setup (arc, sub, play ones) too much to even think about waiting a few months to get a new one, and only if they fix it. 

I can create the conditions for highlighting the problem (turn off sub and surrounds and play songs with strong bass at high volume). But, if I’m honest, I only hear it if I go looking for it, it’s not something I experienced in my 3 weeks of normal usage (TV and music with sub and surrounds on).

So as much as it irks me to have paid a steep and full price for a potentially flawed product, I’m still happy I managed to grab one when I did (purchased the last in-store available one from Best Buy at the time, no stock anywhere since). At this point I really hope it's a software issue that will be fixed eventually, as I’ll keep it.

I agree with @And2.  I have an Arc + Sub3 in my finished basement and I really like it.  I agree with those that find the Arc a bit “bright” even in this configuration, but I don’t find that overly annoying.  I’m hoping an update in the future might reduce that a bit.  Upstairs in my living room (a lot smaller than my finished basement), I have a Beam + 2xPlay:1s which couldn’t be more perfect for that space.  So I’m still a fan of the Sonos ecosystem.

I completely understand how folks with only the Arc are very disappointed at this point.

Well?  Is the replacement ARC the same?

The replacement Arc arrived eventually today (Thanks DHL) set it up, and the two surrounds, went through trueplay and loaded up 6 underground, its better but still has a long way to go to beat the bass and treble on the beam. Loaded some songs and that had improved even with bass on max at 50% volume. Top end a bit like fingernails down a blackboard.

Guess I will get the sub eventually

Had you tested out your previous Arc with the 12.0.1 update before returning it?  If so, and your new Arc doesn’t have the muddy bass problem, then this would point to a hardware problem--perhaps with a certain batch.  Unless the bass problem is really just being covered up by the 12.0.1 firmware.

Don’t the comments from Rtings (a few posts up) pretty much confirm that all Sonos did was “cover up” the bass issue with 12.0.1? That was my interpretation anyway.

Yes, but what I wanted to determine was whether @AndyWUK thinks that his new Arc with 12.0.1 firmware sounds better than his previous Arc with 12.0.1 firmware.

Setup my return for the Arc today. I found a Playbar locally and just going to do that until they figure this out. My hope was for a single unit for movies and music - aka no sub. I did put them side by side and the Playbar has marginally better bass than the Arc FWIW. Sound was a little warmer ish. It’s really hard to compare the Arc with anything because of the surround effects of it - the image is so wide. The Arc definitely has a lot more power and headroom, but still thuds out. Maybe they’ll get this worked out, but definitely feel burned by the entire process with Sonos. All the back and forth, waiting on hold, only to get told I’m having my case escalated, but never getting any information. It’s been 2 weeks since my first ticket and still no response from the technician I was promised. Good luck all with your Arcs. I can stomach adding a sub to the Playbar a lot more than an $800 Arc.

I dont agree with this. An user here said that but don’t take that as a fact. RTINGS said very clearly the update improved things. Not sure was “cover up” means in this case. How do you cover up an issue by improving it? The user mentioned a bandgap filter which basically blocks out a range of frequencies, yet I am not sure were they're getting this information from. Anyways that is what DSP is, a bunch of processing and this goes into all SONOS Speakers. So the hope, if theres no hardware design issue, is that the final and intended DSP tweeks are able to filter out and undesired frequency response to flatten it out. 

In the plots I shared, this can be seen perfectly. The goal would be a flatter sound that doesn’t deviate from ideal performance, we know this is not possible or even a thing on any soundbar though. For example look at the Q90R samsung soundbar comparison. Now this is not a fair comparison because this shows performance with a subwoofer which will pereform much better in the lower freqs. I suspect the arc with the Sub look as good if not better than this red line (they haven’t tested it yet). Q90R comes with sub but it is pricier as well (not as pricey as sonos whole 5.1 system though)

Anyways there is clearly something weird going on in the 40 - 50 Hz range with the Arc (without a sub) it was improved with the update but still looks off.

That being said, the issues show up at MAX SPL which means max volume level, there is distortion. Most people, including me, wont really push the sound past 70% or so so they might not even experience these issues. However, we certainly expect more out of SONOS engineering. This is not acceptable, competitors or even other SONOS products can perform better at high volume. So that is where we set the bar for this new SONOS flagship

Had you tested out your previous Arc with the 12.0.1 update before returning it?  If so, and your new Arc doesn’t have the muddy bass problem, then this would point to a hardware problem--perhaps with a certain batch.  Unless the bass problem is really just being covered up by the 12.0.1 firmware.

 

Don’t the comments from Rtings (a few posts up) pretty much confirm that all Sonos did was “cover up” the bass issue with 12.0.1? That was my interpretation anyway.

I dont agree with this. An user here said that but don’t take that as a fact. RTINGS said very clearly the update improved things. Not sure was “cover up” means in this case. How do you cover up an issue by improving it? The user mentioned a bandgap filter which basically blocks out a range of frequencies, yet I am not sure were they're getting this information from. Anyways that is what DSP is, a bunch of processing and this goes into all SONOS Speakers. So the hope, if theres no hardware design issue, is that the final and intended DSP tweeks are able to filter out and undesired frequency response to flatten it out. 

 

In the plots I shared, this can be seen perfectly. The goal would be a flatter sound that doesn’t deviate from ideal performance, we know this is not possible or even a thing on any soundbar though. For example look at the Q90R samsung soundbar comparison. Now this is not a fair comparison because this shows performance with a subwoofer which will pereform much better in the lower freqs. I suspect the arc with the Sub look as good if not better than this red line (they haven’t tested it yet). Q90R comes with sub but it is pricier as well (not as pricey as sonos whole 5.1 system though)

Anyways there is clearly something weird going on in the 40 - 50 Hz range with the Arc (without a sub) it was improved with the update but still looks off.

That being said, the issues show up at MAX SPL which means max volume level, there is distortion. Most people, including me, wont really push the sound past 70% or so so they might not even experience these issues. However, we certainly expect more out of SONOS engineering. This is not acceptable, competitors or even other SONOS products can perform better at high volume. So that is where we set the bar for this new SONOS flagship

Q90R with sub and surround is $999, while the Sonos 5.1 setup is double the cost. Q90R also has 2 4k pass-through ports and supports all sound formats. It does not need any more software updates to make it future proof cause it already is (with eARC). It only lacks airplay 2, but who will play an extra $900 to get that functionality? People argue that Sonos has long term software support, but those updates will only make up for the feature gap between Q90R and Arc. Plus no software update can fix the lack of ports.

“Q90R with sub and surround is $999,...”

Q90R’s surround speakers also include up-firing drivers which might increase the Atmos affect.  I’m hoping Sonos comes out with something like this eventually. Once they’ve addressed all the Arc problems of course...

And you are not dependant on the modern tv to get the atmos sound.

Hello Jordan, l too had the same experience with the Arc. I took mine back to the shop and exchanged for a beam. I find the beam better and at half the price. I still detect harshness/bright dialogue in the sound,bot certainly no worse than the Arc! I think a lot of it has to do with the tuning,but it shouldn’t. Maybe bright sound is inherent in Sonos products.

The Arc has up-firing drivers already.  Not sure what the point of comparison is here...

Had you tested out your previous Arc with the 12.0.1 update before returning it?  If so, and your new Arc doesn’t have the muddy bass problem, then this would point to a hardware problem--perhaps with a certain batch.  Unless the bass problem is really just being covered up by the 12.0.1 firmware.

 

Don’t the comments from Rtings (a few posts up) pretty much confirm that all Sonos did was “cover up” the bass issue with 12.0.1? That was my interpretation anyway.

I dont agree with this. An user here said that but don’t take that as a fact. RTINGS said very clearly the update improved things. Not sure was “cover up” means in this case. How do you cover up an issue by improving it? The user mentioned a bandgap filter which basically blocks out a range of frequencies, yet I am not sure were they're getting this information from. Anyways that is what DSP is, a bunch of processing and this goes into all SONOS Speakers. So the hope, if theres no hardware design issue, is that the final and intended DSP tweeks are able to filter out and undesired frequency response to flatten it out. 

 

In the plots I shared, this can be seen perfectly. The goal would be a flatter sound that doesn’t deviate from ideal performance, we know this is not possible or even a thing on any soundbar though. For example look at the Q90R samsung soundbar comparison. Now this is not a fair comparison because this shows performance with a subwoofer which will pereform much better in the lower freqs. I suspect the arc with the Sub look as good if not better than this red line (they haven’t tested it yet). Q90R comes with sub but it is pricier as well (not as pricey as sonos whole 5.1 system though)

Anyways there is clearly something weird going on in the 40 - 50 Hz range with the Arc (without a sub) it was improved with the update but still looks off.

That being said, the issues show up at MAX SPL which means max volume level, there is distortion. Most people, including me, wont really push the sound past 70% or so so they might not even experience these issues. However, we certainly expect more out of SONOS engineering. This is not acceptable, competitors or even other SONOS products can perform better at high volume. So that is where we set the bar for this new SONOS flagship

There is a belief that Sonos cut the bass significantly to eliminate the issue (i.e. if there is no bass, there is no distorted bass). See https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8VtO4Qc5NaY (see beginning at 7:00 minutes for a minute or so).  I think that was the quick fix while they continue to work on the issue, which makes sense.  I don’t think it’s a “cover up” or anything crazy like that.

I believe he is referring to the surround speakers having up-firing speakers, and the possibility of Sonos creating a One with an up-firing Atmos speaker as a surround option.

Replying to @ewolkoff 

The Q90 has up-firing drivers in the soundbar and surround speakers which gives you a 7.1.4 configuration. I’ve never tested the Q90, but the up-firing drivers in the surrounds should you give a better height effect.

if Sonos offered up-firing drivers in the surrounds, you’d then have a 5.x.4 configuration. Another nice enhancement would be for Sonos to enable you to designate an Amp and some number of speakers as up-firing height speakers OR an Amp and some number of ceiling speakers as down-firing height speakers.

Gotcha thanks.  Very interesting.  I hopped onto Samsung’s website to see this and saw that the reviews on Samsung.com are very mediocre (~3 stars).  When you dive into them, there are a ton of 1 star reviews when the soundbar came out because it had all kinds of connectivity, reliability, and sound issues.  The newer reviews are really good because Samsung worked on firmware for almost a year to perfect it.  Early adopters always bear the brunt of these issues, but I am sure Sonos will continue to work to improve the Arc.  Just something to keep in mind. 

There were also complaints with the playbar initially. It was sort of a new thing and the sound was tuned for a while after. Now after 7 years people forget that.