Not sure if I'm saying anything new here, but I've come to the revelation that DTS should not be a technical issue (users can't tell the difference between it and DD) but a user experience issue. It's not about sound quality; it's about ease of use. Users shouldn't have to start threads, do expensive research, speak with support, etc. in order to play a video source with DTS.
Users can't tell the difference? Fine. But users sure as hell are frustrated when they have to research TVs, blu-ray players, switches and more just to make sure their Playbar or Playbase will work.
Pay the license fee. Support the codec. Make your users lives a little bit easier. (Isn't that what Sonos is all about?)
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I am not bringing my question up to be snarky or sarcastic in any way, I really don't know the answer. I've used a Playbar/5.1 setup for a couple of years now and have come across exactly zero instances where the lack of DTS support was a problem.
What sources are being used that are DTS-only (as opposed to offering 5.1 via DTS or Dolby 5.1)? In other words, which sources are there that play nothing through a Playbar because of Sonos' lack of DTS support?
to my knowledge, broadcast TV and streaming services offer Dolby. And DVDs/Blurays offer multiple audio options. The only thing I can think of that is DTS only is ripped DVDs/Blurays that are often pirated.
Again, not trying to push any buttons with people...I would like to better understand.
What sources are being used that are DTS-only (as opposed to offering 5.1 via DTS or Dolby 5.1)? In other words, which sources are there that play nothing through a Playbar because of Sonos' lack of DTS support?
to my knowledge, broadcast TV and streaming services offer Dolby. And DVDs/Blurays offer multiple audio options. The only thing I can think of that is DTS only is ripped DVDs/Blurays that are often pirated.
Again, not trying to push any buttons with people...I would like to better understand.
I'm not sure what the OP is trying to accomplish. UX, technical, philosophical, financial, lifestyle, religious, political; define it any sane or crazy way you like. Sonos isnt supporting DTS. Period. Semantical arguments aren't changing this fact. I came to grips with this (IMHO) bad decision years ago. Anyone else still pining over it should do the same.
Pay the license fee. Support the codec. Make your users lives a little bit easier. (Isn't that what Sonos is all about?)
You make a reasonable and compelling argument. IMO posts like yours may help persuade Sonos over time and you certainly shouldnt refrain from posting- ignore those telling you to shut up.
I couldn't agree more with the OP. I've already posted multiple replies in this forum how frustrating the lack of more modern audio formats is. The Sonos 5.1 has great sound & software otherwise.
I don't think the jdag has played many recent Blu-ray discs. Specially UHD discs. It's becoming more common for the older DD5.1 format to be omitted. It makes sense as DD5.1 is a lossy codec and is used for low bandwidth situations - like streaming.
Ryan from Sonos has posted here recently stating that Sonos is aiming their product at "modern" users who stream all of their video content. Apparently those of use who just bought the latest 4K TV & UHD Blu-ray player are behine the times - go figure?
I don't think the jdag has played many recent Blu-ray discs. Specially UHD discs. It's becoming more common for the older DD5.1 format to be omitted. It makes sense as DD5.1 is a lossy codec and is used for low bandwidth situations - like streaming.
Ryan from Sonos has posted here recently stating that Sonos is aiming their product at "modern" users who stream all of their video content. Apparently those of use who just bought the latest 4K TV & UHD Blu-ray player are behine the times - go figure?
You are 100% correct...I do not even have a physical disc player in my home any longer as I moved completely to streaming a couple of years back.
Your point though makes perfect sense, that if DD5.1 is not available on recent Bluray/UHD discs, it would be problematic.
BUT...
This DTS argument has been going on for a long time, since the Playbar was introduced. So there presumably are reasons beyond "recent" discs that people clamor for DTS support.
As mentioned earlier, I am not at all trying to be argumentative. I really would like to understand the need, because for me it is completely irrelevant.
Got'cha.
So this is why I think they really need to address this:
When I put a Blu-ray disc in to watch a movie, unless there is a DD5.1 soundtrack included I hear nothing on my Sonos 5.1 system. No sound. I have to change the audio to my TV's speakers (which don't sound very good). It's becoming more common for recent Blu-ray releases to omit the DD5.1 codec. Specially with the UHD discs. I just bought the new UHD release of Hacksaw Ridge and the used the DD5.1 codec for the Spanish language version! All the English channels are in DTS & Atmos.
I realize that with the Sonos system is not going to do a good job of replicating the performance of a good Atmos or DTS sound track. I just want it to be able to accept this codec and make use of it's 6 channels. Remember, his system is not cheap. It should be able to do this simple task that every other soundbar surround system on the market can do.
So this is why I think they really need to address this:
When I put a Blu-ray disc in to watch a movie, unless there is a DD5.1 soundtrack included I hear nothing on my Sonos 5.1 system. No sound. I have to change the audio to my TV's speakers (which don't sound very good). It's becoming more common for recent Blu-ray releases to omit the DD5.1 codec. Specially with the UHD discs. I just bought the new UHD release of Hacksaw Ridge and the used the DD5.1 codec for the Spanish language version! All the English channels are in DTS & Atmos.
I realize that with the Sonos system is not going to do a good job of replicating the performance of a good Atmos or DTS sound track. I just want it to be able to accept this codec and make use of it's 6 channels. Remember, his system is not cheap. It should be able to do this simple task that every other soundbar surround system on the market can do.
So this is why I think they really need to address this:
When I put a Blu-ray disc in to watch a movie, unless there is a DD5.1 soundtrack included I hear nothing on my Sonos 5.1 system. No sound. I have to change the audio to my TV's speakers (which don't sound very good). It's becoming more common for recent Blu-ray releases to omit the DD5.1 codec. Specially with the UHD discs. I just bought the new UHD release of Hacksaw Ridge and the used the DD5.1 codec for the Spanish language version! All the English channels are in DTS & Atmos.
I realize that with the Sonos system is not going to do a good job of replicating the performance of a good Atmos or DTS sound track. I just want it to be able to accept this codec and make use of it's 6 channels. Remember, his system is not cheap. It should be able to do this simple task that every other soundbar surround system on the market can do.
You are the 1st person I've ever seen state the case in this way. Albeit, I haven't really been overly interested in the DTS argument so have not been very attentive to it.
Pretty much every other complaint has been based on the foundation of "I want DTS because it is 2017".
Sonos have pretty much said they don't see people who actually play physical media as intended customers. Staggering.
I understand that Sonos is focused on streamed content, and that is fine for me for audio. However, where I live the fastest internet available is still ADSL and a 6Mb down/0.8Mb upload at that. This does not allow me to stream any HD video without significant buffering issues. So, I am stuck with physical media if I want to watch HD video content. I presume there are still many people without access to high enough internet speeds for HD video streaming, and I am not alone in this...
About 30% of the US has 0 providers that meet the 25/3 Mbps broadband definition from the US FCC. This is 30% of the United States that aren't likely to be streaming video from Netflix, Hulu, Amazon, and other sources (yes, I know Netflix really only needs about 5-6 Mbps down, but in areas that don't meet the 25/3 standard, the choice is usually below 5 Mbps, maybe 10 Mbps if lucky). Sonos has more or less alienated 30% of the US with regard to their product by not including DTS support, since yes, it's mostly DVD and Blu-Ray discs that have DTS audio on them.
And even in more populated areas where streaming is very much possible, there are still plenty of people that will go to a Redbox kiosk and rent a disc for $2.
I said it in another post and I'll say it again here. There's no reason for a system as expensive as Sonos to not have support for DTS. Samsung and Vizio have (admittedly not 100% wire-free, but pretty close) 5.1 surround sound soundbar systems that are half the cost of a Playbar alone, much less a Playbar and 2 Play:1's, and they both support DTS. Whatever Sonos' reason is for not supporting DTS, they need to get over it and include support for this codec to make their customers' lives easier. Oh, and Vizio's soundbar system includes Google Cast streaming functionality built-in too.
Supporting PCM 5.1 would also be good, since nearly EVERYTHING that handles surround sound has the ability to send a PCM 5.1 signal, regardless of the source format. If they supported PCM 5.1, then nearly everyone would have nothing to worry about as far as the source audio format is concerned. Talk about making things easy!
Couldn't agree more.
The entry level person who wants to get going on the theater experience buys an AVR and hooks it up to their existing two stereo speakers. Then they add a center channel. A sub follows. Then eventually they wire in a pair of rear surround speakers. Sonos can keep up with that, though our separation is lacking.
Thats where things diverge.
The AVR user can adventure into the higher formats. Add in a discrete rear center. A pair of back effects channels. A pair of front surrounds. Pull out the ladder and put up some ceiling channels. Its only limited by the processing and amp channels built into that AVR.
Meanwhile, Sonos is still at 5.1, telling us that "the majority" of people want to stream media, and that is limited to DD decoding. Well, if you make a decision to limit your product line in that way, the only people who will buy it are those who fit your description. If you only build open cockpit vehicles, "the majority" of your customers will be those who can make use of that limitation.
I realize that the Sonos system is not going to do a good job of replicating the performance of a good Atmos or DTS sound track. I just want it to be able to accept this codec and make use of it's 6 channels. Remember, this system is not cheap. It should be able to do this simple task that every other soundbar surround system on the market can do.
You're completely correct. There are sound bars that are quite a bit wider than this one, with better separation and far better sound quality for less money. Or, a decent Denon or Marantz AVR with the entry-level Audyssey EQ, along with half a dozen quality bookshelf/wall speakers and a sub can be had for the same money we spend on Sonos HT, and that AVR can be joined to anything that uses WiFi. The drawback is having to hide all those speaker wires, plus make space for the AVR. I bought the Sonos system because I wanted to go wireless specifically for home theater, and now I'm finding out about one limitation after another.
I said it in another post and I'll say it again here. There's no reason for a system as expensive as Sonos to not have support for DTS. Samsung and Vizio have (admittedly not 100% wire-free, but pretty close) 5.1 surround sound soundbar systems that are half the cost of a Playbar alone, much less a Playbar and 2 Play:1's, and they both support DTS. Whatever Sonos' reason is for not supporting DTS, they need to get over it and include support for this codec to make their customers' lives easier. Oh, and Vizio's soundbar system includes Google Cast streaming functionality built-in too.
Supporting PCM 5.1 would also be good, since nearly EVERYTHING that handles surround sound has the ability to send a PCM 5.1 signal, regardless of the source format. If they supported PCM 5.1, then nearly everyone would have nothing to worry about as far as the source audio format is concerned. Talk about making things easy!
Sonos apologists have pointed out that the optical link is a technical limitation, but rather than try to help us raise demand for expanding future revisions of the hardware to include more format-friendly interfaces, they say enjoy Sonos as-is, because its good enough "for what it is". Oddly, that same argument exists whenever one experiences limitations on any consumer-facing product, whether its audio, video, automobiles, novels, whatever.
Quite a few people here have asked for a proper home theater setup, and one approach we discussed was being able to use 5 Plays of your choice with a Sub, and the whole thing handled by some kind of outboard decoder or whatever was needed to get the signal broken up into the proper channels and distributed to them. And, as I mentioned above, it would be nice to have a "magic box" that can handle processing all those different codecs and allow us to add channels. One user here even coined the term "SUPER:CONNECT", which is as apt a name for that concept as any I can think of. Regardless of what you call it, that concept is so enticing and would grab so much mind and market share from wired systems I can't believe Sonos hasn't pursued it. In fact, just partner up with one of the companies that already licenses the appropriate codecs and has experience with building processors, and either do a co-branding or allow that company to access the Sonos wireless protocols, release their own product, and pay Sonos for the privilege?
Others here have noted the obsession Sonos exhibits with streaming functionality vs up-to-date home theater codecs. Personally, I don't care if Sonos plays Apple Music, or Spotify, or Pandora, or any other streaming setup. I never use that stuff, I never will. I am well aware others do, and that is a valid market for Sonos to pursue. But they already have the functionality and its now being fine-tuned. How about the rest of us that still lack expandable home theater?
Thats where things diverge.
The AVR user can adventure into the higher formats. Add in a discrete rear center. A pair of back effects channels. A pair of front surrounds. Pull out the ladder and put up some ceiling channels. Its only limited by the processing and amp channels built into that AVR.
Meanwhile, Sonos is still at 5.1, telling us that "the majority" of people want to stream media, and that is limited to DD decoding. Well, if you make a decision to limit your product line in that way, the only people who will buy it are those who fit your description. If you only build open cockpit vehicles, "the majority" of your customers will be those who can make use of that limitation.
You're completely correct. There are sound bars that are quite a bit wider than this one, with better separation and far better sound quality for less money. Or, a decent Denon or Marantz AVR with the entry-level Audyssey EQ, along with half a dozen quality bookshelf/wall speakers and a sub can be had for the same money we spend on Sonos HT, and that AVR can be joined to anything that uses WiFi. The drawback is having to hide all those speaker wires, plus make space for the AVR. I bought the Sonos system because I wanted to go wireless specifically for home theater, and now I'm finding out about one limitation after another.
Supporting PCM 5.1 would also be good, since nearly EVERYTHING that handles surround sound has the ability to send a PCM 5.1 signal, regardless of the source format. If they supported PCM 5.1, then nearly everyone would have nothing to worry about as far as the source audio format is concerned. Talk about making things easy!
Sonos apologists have pointed out that the optical link is a technical limitation, but rather than try to help us raise demand for expanding future revisions of the hardware to include more format-friendly interfaces, they say enjoy Sonos as-is, because its good enough "for what it is". Oddly, that same argument exists whenever one experiences limitations on any consumer-facing product, whether its audio, video, automobiles, novels, whatever.
Quite a few people here have asked for a proper home theater setup, and one approach we discussed was being able to use 5 Plays of your choice with a Sub, and the whole thing handled by some kind of outboard decoder or whatever was needed to get the signal broken up into the proper channels and distributed to them. And, as I mentioned above, it would be nice to have a "magic box" that can handle processing all those different codecs and allow us to add channels. One user here even coined the term "SUPER:CONNECT", which is as apt a name for that concept as any I can think of. Regardless of what you call it, that concept is so enticing and would grab so much mind and market share from wired systems I can't believe Sonos hasn't pursued it. In fact, just partner up with one of the companies that already licenses the appropriate codecs and has experience with building processors, and either do a co-branding or allow that company to access the Sonos wireless protocols, release their own product, and pay Sonos for the privilege?
Others here have noted the obsession Sonos exhibits with streaming functionality vs up-to-date home theater codecs. Personally, I don't care if Sonos plays Apple Music, or Spotify, or Pandora, or any other streaming setup. I never use that stuff, I never will. I am well aware others do, and that is a valid market for Sonos to pursue. But they already have the functionality and its now being fine-tuned. How about the rest of us that still lack expandable home theater?
This is exactly the point I was trying to make. It's not about sound quality (DTS vs DD), it's about ease-of-use. DTS just happens to be one of the most common codecs out there so that's why it gets mentioned over and over in these forums.
My thoughts on the issue at hand.
About two years ago I had done an extensive research on soundbars and HT. I really wanted Sonos but went with Bose soundtouch 130 instead for this sole reason that is lack of support for codecs by Sonos.
After reading this thread I kinda regret that purchase because since setting up the Bose system all I have done is stream content. I don't own a blueray player nor a cd player for that matter.
I am looking to buy a music system and for the last couple of months I have been researching what's on offer and to me Sonos still comes out on top.
That's why I regret getting the bose, not that it sounds or behaves badly but rather, I would have liked two have one system throughout the house.
But I guess I fall into the (modern) user demographic Sonos is referring to.
But for those who do enjoy blueray, uhd and all that good stuff which I certainly enjoy when exposed to it.
I feel for you and understand your complaints completely.
I didn't realize how much I use streaming until I read this thread ;)
On the other hand I have a fairly big tv room and if I were to go all out hometheater I would probably not use Sonos anyhow.
It would be some epic Denon or Yamaha avr with the full monty speaker kit to accompany it.
Just my two cents.
About two years ago I had done an extensive research on soundbars and HT. I really wanted Sonos but went with Bose soundtouch 130 instead for this sole reason that is lack of support for codecs by Sonos.
After reading this thread I kinda regret that purchase because since setting up the Bose system all I have done is stream content. I don't own a blueray player nor a cd player for that matter.
I am looking to buy a music system and for the last couple of months I have been researching what's on offer and to me Sonos still comes out on top.
That's why I regret getting the bose, not that it sounds or behaves badly but rather, I would have liked two have one system throughout the house.
But I guess I fall into the (modern) user demographic Sonos is referring to.
But for those who do enjoy blueray, uhd and all that good stuff which I certainly enjoy when exposed to it.
I feel for you and understand your complaints completely.
I didn't realize how much I use streaming until I read this thread ;)
On the other hand I have a fairly big tv room and if I were to go all out hometheater I would probably not use Sonos anyhow.
It would be some epic Denon or Yamaha avr with the full monty speaker kit to accompany it.
Just my two cents.
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