Android and Trueplay



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SONOS is attempting to measure the room characteristics. A simple wired microphone typically determines conditions at a spot -- and the wire is always too short -- or “I forgot where I stored the microphone” -- or the speaker is sitting on a high shelf (“how do I attach the microphone?”).

Admittedly, I don’t have a proper sample, but most SONOS users that I encounter have iDevices. SONOS would be aware of the actual percentages that use Android.

Sure, SONOS could sell a free standing wireless microphone. How much would you be willing to pay for such a device? Would you be grumbling that iDevice users would not need to purchase such a device? Should SONOS include such a device with each speaker? Of course this would imply raising prices to accommodate development, support (remember that SONOS offers “free” support), and production costs. And, for anyone who has an iDevice, there would eventually be extra junk for the recycle stream.

Hmmmm.  Bose and Samsung to name a couple of high end’s that have included necessary sound pick-up within the product.  For the ARC, how much could it cost to add a mic on a plug-in wire that would give you absolutely control over the sound pickup?

SONOS is attempting to measure the room characteristics. A simple wired microphone typically determines conditions at a spot -- and the wire is always too short -- or “I forgot where I stored the microphone” -- or the speaker is sitting on a high shelf (“how do I attach the microphone?”).

Admittedly, I don’t have a proper sample, but most SONOS users that I encounter have iDevices. SONOS would be aware of the actual percentages that use Android.

Sure, SONOS could sell a free standing wireless microphone. How much would you be willing to pay for such a device? Would you be grumbling that iDevice users would not need to purchase such a device? Should SONOS include such a device with each speaker? Of course this would imply raising prices to accommodate development, support (remember that SONOS offers “free” support), and production costs. And, for anyone who has an iDevice, there would eventually be extra junk for the recycle stream.

 

I’ve noticed that every time Apple comes out with a new iDevice, it’s several months before Sonos releases Trueplay support for the device.  That makes me think it’s not just a matter of calibrating the mic on the device in order to make trueplay function properly.  Also, whatever dev and testing that needs to be done outside of mic calibration. is not trivial, otherwise it would be released within a couple weeks at the most.    Also also, it seems possible, maybe likely, that if Sonos made their own mic device, that Sonos would offset the cost by stopping the continual dev and testing of trueplay via iDevices while also increasing the market size.  Obviously, that would make a lot of people unhappy as well.  

And one last thing.  These are essentially single use devices.  Example, someone who just set a home theatre with no plans for expansion will likely avoid buying the device. If installed professionally, the installer will tune it with his own device rather than selling one to the customer.  If you install yourself,  you may decide to go without, borrow  from a friend, or a buy a used one.  If you do buy one, you don’t need it afterwards, so you can sell it or just give it away.  The point is that the actual market size for this device is probably much smaller than the number of Sonos households.

 

Hmmmm.  Bose and Samsung to name a couple of high end’s that have included necessary sound pick-up within the product.  For the ARC, how much could it cost to add a mic on a plug-in wire that would give you absolutely control over the sound pickup?

 

Considering they’d have to retool the line to incorporate that new plug connection into an existing design, it would cost a considerable amount. 

Hmmmm.  Bose and Samsung to name a couple of high end’s that have included necessary sound pick-up within the product.  For the ARC, how much could it cost to add a mic on a plug-in wire that would give you absolutely control over the sound pickup?

 

I could be off on this, but I believe other tuning methods have you place the wired mic at the seating location and they tune from that.  Trueplay tuning is different.   Besides the fact that the Arc doesn’t have a port for such a mic, you probably would be required to connect the mic to your phone so that it could be waved around the room.

Clearly passionate defense of status quo. Nevertheless, for the global smartphone market, more than 70 percent are Android as of 2022, according to Statcounter.  Maybe Sonos is comfortable limiting themselves to half the US market?

Clearly passionate defense of status quo.

 

 

Should be pretty easy to logically debunk that defense then.

 

Nevertheless, for the global smartphone market, more than 70 percent are Android as of 2022, according to Statcounter.  Maybe Sonos is comfortable limiting themselves to half the US market?

Your link is to worldwide data.  Here is the US only data, showing android at around 44%.  However, neither is fully relevant since Sonos does not operate in every country in the world, and the demographic of typical Sonos customer likely does match the general population of smartphone user.  I mean, a 12 year old kid has a smartphone, but they aren’t buying Sonos anything   

But for the sake of argument, let’s say android is 50% of Sonos market.   You still have to factor in that many can borrow an idevice or choose to go without.  Suggesting that Sonos is limiting themselves to half the US market assumes android users can’t use Sonos, which is just not true.  And you still have to factor in the dev costs for the variety of mics on androids vs idevice.

I would love to see trueplay on android, or a separate mic device, personally.  I’m just saying that it’s not too surprising that Sonos hasn’t done this considering what we know.

 

 

SONOS is attempting to measure the room characteristics. A simple wired microphone typically determines conditions at a spot -- and the wire is always too short -- or “I forgot where I stored the microphone” -- or the speaker is sitting on a high shelf (“how do I attach the microphone?”).

Admittedly, I don’t have a proper sample, but most SONOS users that I encounter have iDevices. SONOS would be aware of the actual percentages that use Android.

Sure, SONOS could sell a free standing wireless microphone. How much would you be willing to pay for such a device? Would you be grumbling that iDevice users would not need to purchase such a device? Should SONOS include such a device with each speaker? Of course this would imply raising prices to accommodate development, support (remember that SONOS offers “free” support), and production costs. And, for anyone who has an iDevice, there would eventually be extra junk for the recycle stream.

Now I am not like other people.   If the cost is less than half of a new apple device, then I would be willing to buy something.  I am going to have 3-4 rooms with several devices so that is a reasonable expense.  I suggest enabling the Roam with microphone as a work around.  I would be willing to buy one.

Now I am not like other people.   If the cost is less than half of a new apple device, then I would be willing to buy something.  I am going to have 3-4 rooms with several devices so that is a reasonable expense.  I suggest enabling the Roam with microphone as a work around.  I would be willing to buy one.

I would be good with the Roams as tuning mic as well.  Not sure that that is possible, and I’m sure many would be offended by a $180 tuning mic.  If it were possible but the required code didn’t fit in with Roams other functions, I would even be ok with having to do a factory reset to put it in ‘tuning mode’.

Completely unrelated, but I also like the idea of putting the Roam in “voice remote” mode and bonding to Sonos room that does’t have any voice mics in it.  You can effectively do this now, but you have to remember to state the room name.  I really just think the form factor of the Roam, and think it could be used in many different ways.

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The reason I’d like a dedicated mike is I am tired of buying replacements for my Apple whatever when it ages out and Sonos drops support for it.

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Do you think Sonos could add the Samsung flagship models to run TruePlay? This would be very useful...

Anything is possible, but I have a few questions for you.

Do these Samsung models use the same microphone hardware within each model, or is there variability, even within each model line?

Which models are Samsung’s ‘flagship models’? 

What percentage of Sonos users have these Samsung devices, in order to make the effort of customizing the system to recognize just those models as TruePlay compliant worth the code effort? Corollary: why just Samsung, and not any other manufacturer’s flagship line?

What would Sonos’ customer support strategy be for all the Android users who don’t have those specific Samsung models, and would not be able to access TruePlay?

 

I would guess there are more discussion at Sonos on how they could drop trueplay in favor of using ‘quick trueplay’ for android AND apple...then there are discussions about expanding trueplay to non-Apple devices.

 

Baseless guess though.

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Make a Sonos USB mike that plugs into apple or Android, sell it for enough to make a tidy profit and stop supporting any internal mikes after a couple years/updates.

Never had the hassles with my Denon, Infinity or Yamaha external miles that I have had with the Apple ones, they just worked with no need to buy a new Apple device every couple years as the old one goes unsupported.

Would you be willing to submit your phone/pad to a local servicer for calibration? Would a fee be appropriate?

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Make a Sonos USB mike that plugs into apple or Android, sell it for enough to make a tidy profit and stop supporting any internal mikes after a couple years/updates.

Never had the hassles with my Denon, Infinity or Yamaha external miles that I have had with the Apple ones, they just worked with no need to buy a new Apple device every couple years as the old one goes unsupported.

I like this idea the best. It would be a shame to lose the full Trueplay function as I don’t think the quick tune is as good.

I’d be willing to buy such a device as I’m an Android user and bought a second hand iPad just to do proper Trueplay (I sometimes like to move my sonos stuff around so have used it many times). 

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Make a Sonos USB mike that plugs into apple or Android, sell it for enough to make a tidy profit and stop supporting any internal mikes after a couple years/updates.

I’m all for dropping support from Apple devices and redirecting resources to a solution that is more equitable. But I’d like them to consider using the mics inside Sonos Roam speakers for this job (future models if the current models are not up to the job). Perhaps they could support mics inside the Roam and also a plug-in mic for those who don’t own Roams.

I’m not sure how well a USB based solution would be accepted because “everything is wireless now, right?” There would be demand for a Bluetooth device.

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I was thinking of a USB device that would plug into the USB port on a phone or tablet and work just as the internal mike option does now.

It would be easy to design an external mike that provided more accurate readings too. Put it on a short extender to get it away from phone and fingers, lowering close in reflected sound.

I’d worry a bit about Bluetooth, both sound quality passed to the App and possible delays in sending it.

 

 

Well, I have purchased a Sonos Arc and though I was going nuts when I couldn't figure out how to calibrate the speaker. I must say I am somewhat disappointed to find this out. Even with A Google Pixel 7 Pro, I am amazed this is not supported or that there is no wired hardware solution. 

I feel I am regretting not going for the Sony HT-A7000 now :(. 

Quite frankly this is all *!

I come from the audiophile industry.  Sonos could easily create a calibration file *.CAL for each phone which could be downloaded and used in a phone.  You need an anechoic chamber and a decent computer system.  It is no hard.  Many companies provide this service.  This is simply silly cos-savings and laziness.

Alternatively, they could release a stand-alone USB mic for $50 which could be used to provide this feature.  Come on Sonos - get your head out of your * and be the company you proclaim to be.  Don’t make me regret buying your $1,000 products!

*Moderator Note: Modified in accordance with the Community Code of Conduct.*

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Sonos could easily create a calibration file *.CAL for each phone

Do you have any idea about the number of different Android phones or the number of different microphones used in identically named phones?

 

The only viable solution is the external mike.

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I’m with @Stanley_4 and others on this. Why don’t Sonos partner up with a decent USB mic manufacturer (if they don’t want to make their own) and calibrate to that mic in the same way they do for each new apple device mic. That way people who want to invest in the additional hardware can without it impacting those who don’t.

The guesswork about “there must be something else” is just guesswork unless Sonos have explained that there is something else at play. 

My situation is I have no iOS devices, and not many people who visit the house have them. When someone does I don’t want to have to ask them to borrow their phone, install Sonos on it, add to the network and then wonder if all the dirt around their phone mic is going to affect the tuning process. I imagine it would! So do I then get out an old toothbrush to remove their cover and try cleaning the mic hole(s)? All while the perplexed owner of phone is wondering why I’m going through all this so my “really expensive” speaker will sound good. No thanks.

I’ve spent a lot of money on Sonos over the years, starting with 2 gen 1 Play 5s around 2010. Their speakers are great but I want them to perform to the best of their ability without the hassle of borrowing phones and wondering at the accuracy of the tuning. Never mind the stick I get from my Bose loving and iPhone wielding brother. 

I have 2 Fives, Arc+sub+2xPlay1s and 6xOnes/Play1s. Every time I adjust a speaker position (more often for the ones) I would need to retune. Every time a room’s soft furnishings are changed I should probably retune as well. 

As it stands only 2 of my 8 sonos rooms are tuned and the only frequent visitor with an iPhone is a farmer...I would need more than a toothbrush to clean that phone! I have looked at buying an older iOS device just to tune but the fact it will eventually be obsolete rules that out - I’m not into throw away purchases.

Have Sonos explained, other than the mic thing, what the blockers are? If not it’s a little hard to defend their long standing position on this. Maybe their seniors have lots of Apple shares and this “technical constraint” suits them fine? 😉

I get that iOS device owners out there think this isn’t that big a deal. And maybe Android device owners, who aren’t that fussy about how it sounds, don’t mind either. I spent money on these speakers because I am fussy….maybe fussy android users are fringe case! 😅

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I have a really nice iPod 4, only used to tune my Sonos about a dozen times. Now too old.

I have a used iPad for now but that will be my last Apple device, I’ll just give up on Trueplay when it is obsoleted.

Android microphones can vary across multiple production runs of the same model. A database of serial numbers would be required to match microphone calibration data with a given Android phone. And a phone from each batch of microphones would be needed to calibrate a batch. I doubt if the phone manufacturers would cooperate with the calibration endeavor. And someone would spend a lot of time buying phones and calibrating hundreds of production runs.

Another approach would be to take the phone to a calibration center. If the phone was purchased from a  nearby dealer, this could be a practical option, otherwise not.

Would you be willing to pay for this calibration service?

Another option would be a onetime calibration of an Android using an iPhone/iPad as the reference. In my opinion this would be a halfway solution because an iPhone/iPad is not a laboratory instrument and the SONOS system operator is not a trained lab technician.

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