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Windows 10 Controller


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Tom_46 wrote:

chicks wrote:

Meanwhile, Android tablets with full touchscreen support for the Sonos app are so inexpensive it's not really a stretch to dedicate one or a few exclusively to the Sonos app...



I have an iPad mini so I do have access to an official app running machine. The problem with having a multi-zone system with only one controller is obvious though. While a phone stays with me, even around the home, a small tablet does not. When you have five zones there is always the problem of remembering where your dedicated tablet actually is. .



Only 1 controller. That is so easy to change. I have various zones. I have a controller in every room in a fixed place - where it lives. I always know where the controller is. Amazon cheap basic tablets and "old" phones/tablets. Really good as remote controls. I use them to control other stuff too and as general purpose media devices.
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If they don't care about the windows platform, they should at least open up their platform a bit more so external developers can jump in to fill the hoops. There are tons of developers that would love to write an external app for Sonos (not just the Windows platform, but developers in general).
I'd prefer a windows 10 app. The existing app performs well in almost all circumstances unless you're trying to use a touch screen in which case it's pretty terrible.

I'd really love to see something come of GeertvanHorrik's suggestion, opening up the platform so that developers like me can build some alternatives would be great. I'd love to build a minimal controller for my daughter that I could set to her speaker only and restrict to specific play lists.
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The way that Sonos could (or should?) do this is to embed the calls to the music services into their players. That way they can hide whatever they want to keep secret but still allow third-party developers to interact with everything they do.

I wrote a complete controller (Windows 10 universal). It supports everything except some third party music services because it requires certificate signing of the requests. If this would all happen inside the players instead of the controllers (which isn't very safe anyways), all problems for most developers would be solved.

So I hope someone at Sonos is listening / peeking into this thread, but I am not getting any hopes up... Then I can add the last missing piece and they don't even have to write a Universal Windows 10 app (because mine is freely available on the store anyway and has all the functionality except initial set up, true play configuration and certificate based authentication).

My point is: if Sonos just opens up their platform (hide sensitive details in the players instead of controllers), nobody would be complaining about an app, it would already be there (which in the long run saves Sonos resources).
As of todays Build conference there are over 270 active Windows 10 devices. Stop focusing on the phone as where the app is needed. Sonos just needs to support the Windows 10 application platform. To not do so would just be foolish of them. Hell they and even have one code base for all of there client/controller apps using Visual Studio with Xamarin.
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Develop a Windows 10 UWP App for God's Sake. We can get by, sure, but this is becoming a nuisance hardship for people that would like to "invest" more in the Sonos platform. At least we can resort to designing some stuff on our own using HomeRemote (thehomeremote dot com). Anyhow, I voted on the OP poll. I guess its better to air our grievances and have them heard by others than to just be ignored by Sonos. I bought my first Play:1 as an accessory to my smart home stuff. It is used as a speaker to announce things as they occur. I was pleasantly surprised by the sound that I want to buy more and complete a full setup across the house. I may need to consider other options, though. Seems weird to me. Perhaps the Windows 10 team was among those laid off at Sonos.
Julio wrote:

28 Votes? Sonos is not going to write an app for 28 votes. Come on people if you really want the app then you have to do something about it.
VOTE!!!!


Because its cumbersome to get here - no vote without registering and login...
GF wrote:

Julio wrote:

28 Votes? Sonos is not going to write an app for 28 votes. Come on people if you really want the app then you have to do something about it.
VOTE!!!!


Because its cumbersome to get here - no vote without registering and login...



Yeah, because if they allowed voting without registering, it would be HIGHLY indicative of actual Sonos users. ;)
People investigate before buying an expensive piece of equipment. I for example am looking into the Playbar + subwoofer and a play 1 for every room in the house. Sonos does not provide support which means i don't purchase Sonos.

In return Sonos does not provide an app because "demand" is low from windows mobile users.

Call it a vicious circle...
Hope is coming...
Microsoft just released a preview version called "Desktop App converter" (Project Centennial). This tool can convert regular win32 apps to Microsoft universal app so it can be used crossplatform, also on Windows 10 mobile. Then there is also Windows bridge for porting IOS apps...
Sonos already has a great win32 app. They just need to convert it.. No more excuses when the App converter is in a final state and ready for use.
I've held off buying a Sonos system due to lack of Windows 10 & Windows Mobile 10 support. With the new UWP app model I see no reason for Sonos not to support this huge platform base. Sonos + W10 + Onedrive integration would be amazing.
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Just my random 2cents and not much all. I finally just bought a Sonos Play:1 to test the waters. My primary concern was finding a speaker set I'd like and that would work with SmartThings. It certainly works well for that purpose. Now there is the issue of Windows support. The Win32 app is ok, but then so are all of the Sonos apps I've seen. So much navigation so much movement. I'm presently working on writing my own UI/APP via TheHomeRemote for my Windows 10 tablets and phones. I've already created custom "app" with tabs for my automation and security. I just need time to learn how the APIs work with Sonos. Until then, I've been trying Phonos. As far as interfaces go, its not the worst and it certainly works - but it does follow the general strange organization of all Sonos apps I've seen. I'm sure Sonos will support UWP, it just makes sense to rather than iterate on the Win32 app. I think I'm set to purchased the Soundbar, the woofer, and a few more Play1s - but it would make the decision a snap if the UWP was at least announced. Until I pull that trigger, I'm still searching for compatible and capable systems.
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Some of you have been asking about a native Windows Phone controller app for Sonos, and we’ve been slow to provide a clear answer. We’re sorry about that. The truth of the matter is that up until now we’ve been unclear internally on this very question. In fact, it’s been the source of many passionate debates because we recognize that some Sonos owners are also Windows Phone users.

In the end, however, we’ve made a decision that Sonos is not going to build a Windows Phone 8 app nor are we planning to build a Windows 10 “universal” app. We’ll of course continue to support the Windows desktop controller. We’re big fans of the work Microsoft is doing across many areas, including mobile, voice control, AI, VR and of course the Groove music service, available on Sonos.

We know this is super frustrating for Windows Phone owners anxious for more native apps on the platform, but like other companies we've had to place our bets. Our focus right now is on Voice and Paid Streaming Services, and we’re exploring quite a few innovative ways to experience and control your music – on your device and off.

We’ll be sure to keep this group informed of our progress.

Thanks,
Kenneth
Thanks for the definitive answer, Kenneth. It will obviously disappoint some, but at least they can now move on to a product which does support Windows mobile.
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Kenneth R wrote:

Some of you have been asking about a native Windows Phone controller app for Sonos...
Thanks,
Kenneth



At long last, I can unsubscribe from this forum. Thanks WP community! Can't say we didn't try.
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Thank you kenneth for this long overdue answer.
However I don't understand the decision. From my understanding it is quite easy to convert an ios app to windows? I guess you've discussed or even tried this option. I'm curious to know why you've decided not to use it?

Anyhow thanks for this great product. But now it accumulates to many no-gos for me. I'll see if others offer a better solution for me.
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I'm really surprised that the Sonos development team, have not considered a web-based interface, to work across all platforms, via the various web browsers that are installed on almost every PC/Mac/Mobile devices these days.

I assume there are some technical reasons why that cannot be done, because it does seem the obvious way forward. Most things sit server-side in today's development environment, with very little sat on the client-side.

It is a pity too, as the support dwindles for the CR100 and CR200 hardware controller that people will have to choose from a narrow list of either an Android or iOS device to conveniently manage their multi-room multi-speaker audio system. Having a Sonos controller on a PC or MAC is fine, but is not as convenient as a mobile device for everyday 'room to room' use.

I personally would have scrapped the PC/Mac development and expanded the mobile platform... Browser based if possible, to better future-proof the road ahead.

Sadly I'm not the one making the decisions.

Even though I am an iOS user myself, I do understand the disappointment that many people here feel, by Kenneth R's recent announcement.

Ken Griffiths
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Kenneth, you are stating: "made a decision that Sonos is not going to build a Windows Phone 8 app ". But you have all ready made the Phis Alpha beta.
https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/store/apps/phish-alpha/9wzdncrcww3f
With good ratings? Why kill it, when you have built it!

And the Windows Desktop Controller, that old fat lady, who really needs a tune-up to the present and the future. That is nothing to brag about.

Sonos your arrogance will kill you. You were first moveres, and at that time great. But now you are just milking your customers, and bringing nothing new to the table. One amongst many.
What do you think you are doing ?!?! Soon 300 MILLION Windows devices and you do not intend to make a decent Windows app?? The current UI is totally outdated. Just try to finetune the volume on a touchscreen display, Close to impossible!!

Give Windows 10 Mobile a try and see that this by definition outperformes Android and Ios and will definetely be growing.

Not to mention the fact that by building a universal app you only have to do it once to support both Windows 10 and Windows 10 Mobile....

SONOOOOOOOS WAKE UP !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
User580008 wrote:

Thunderbyte wrote:

Windows Mobile has a market share of 2-3 %, according to http://www.idc.com/prodserv/smartphone-os-market-share.jsp . It is not very economical to create a Sonos client for such a small minority. As Windows Mobile user, you should be aware of that and should have been aware before you purchased such a device.

Improving the Android and iOS client will reach way more people than a Windows client.

On your desktop you can use the desktop controller. Touchscreen Windows devices are still a minority as well, albeit possibly rising in number.

Surely there should only be android controllers based on this assumption then as IoS accounts for a tiny % of shipments too....

Maybe the whole situation will change with Windows 10, I would not yet count on it.

Julio wrote:

28 Votes? Sonos is not going to write an app for 28 votes. Come on people if you really want the app then you have to do something about it.
VOTE!!!!



Oh! Seems you found all the 28 people using Windows mobile! Congrats! ;)



Get your facts together !!! By making a Universal Windows App, they get both Windows AND Windows Mobile.... Combined still easily the nunber ONE OS worldwide !!
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Thanks for a definitive answer. At this point it's a relief to have an answer, even if it was far to long coming.
Dirk_11 wrote:

By making a Universal Windows App, they get both Windows AND Windows Mobile.... Combined still easily the nunber ONE OS worldwide !!


Actually the current number one desktop OS is Win7. Win10 is way behind, and only marginally ahead of Win8/8.1 or XP. A universal app would be no use to the majority of Windows users.
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Kenneth R wrote:

In the end, however, we’ve made a decision that Sonos is not going to build a Windows Phone 8 app nor are we planning to build a Windows 10 “universal” app. We’ll of course continue to support the Windows desktop controller.


Surely you're not serious? Not only have you decided that you won't build an app for the [deprecated] Windows Phone OS (which, btw, is completely understandable - even in the regions where WP had "taken off" it was 10% of market share at most) but you've also decided not to build a UWP app which will run on, as of Build 2016 - i.e. a couple weeks ago, 270 million devices? Are you kidding me? Like it or not, desktop apps are quickly becoming legacy apps and while this move probably won't affect your bottom line today it sure will tomorrow - people are already less willing to install legacy apps than a store app and this is a trend that will only continue going forward.

Kenneth R wrote:

We know this is super frustrating for Windows Phone owners anxious for more native apps on the platform, but like other companies we've had to place our bets. Our focus right now is on Voice and Paid Streaming Services, and we’re exploring quite a few innovative ways to experience and control your music – on your device and off.


It's not frustrating for Windows Phone users, well, I'm sure it is, but that's the part of the market you can afford to forget about. It is however super frustrating for the 270 million, current and active, users of Windows 10 devices (which include, but is not limited to, Windows 10 Mobile, the Surface line of computers, Xbox One's - almost all of whom are proven time and time again to spend more per capita than the average consumer).

While the legacy app works it really needs an overhaul in terms of design, but perhaps more so in general UX and discoverability. Continuing to pour money into desktop apps in this day and age makes no sense what so ever. Cut your losses and rewrite it as a UWP app, the way Microsoft is "forcing" users to upgrade to Windows 10 there won't be many XP, Vista, Windows 7 or 8 users left soon anyway - at least not ones who own or intend on owning a Sonos system, because, interestingly, those are also likely to spend more money than the "average" Joe. And sure, you may not like having this image of catering mostly to the higher-end markets, but as long as you have the kind of condescending staff you do in your UK offices that's exactly the type of image you are purveying - at least here in Europe.

Kenneth R wrote:

We’ll be sure to keep this group informed of our progress.


Progress towards what? You've just said you are not going to cater to Windows users going forward - what makes you think said group of people would be the least interested in your progress?

Oh well, thanks for the definite answer, at least I now know not to bother investing further in your products - which, to be honest, I hadn't done in the past few years anyway due to the lack of the Windows Phone controller (or publically accessible APIs allowing GOOD QUALITY 3rd party apps). I've just ordered another couple Amazon Echo's, and while they don't do multi-room audio like Sonos (yet) I feel confident I can MacGyver a solution based on these and some RPi's which will give me the outstanding voice control provided by Alexa as well as streaming music, audiobooks (you no longer even support Audible...), news read out loud.. The more I think about it the better it sounds.

Mr. Thomas wrote:

https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/store/apps/phish-alpha/9wzdncrcww3f
With good ratings? Why kill it, when you have built it!

Sonos your arrogance will kill you. You were first moveres, and at that time great. But now you are just milking your customers, and bringing nothing new to the table. One amongst many.


More than likely because they're already struggling to survive in todays changed landscape. People, and no, not just the audiophile people Sonos UK would like to cater for. but people in general, are now buying Amazon Echo's and similar products en-masse. Sonos have already started letting people go.

Some years ago, Sonos had the edge because of their integration with audio services and high-quality speakers, but over the past few years the field has become crowded with competitors and Sonos no longer stands out - and even less so now, when they are actively trying to limit their user base.

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Apparently you don't allow animated GIFs, so I removed the inline image.
--/edit---
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Well that is thoroughly rubbish. However as a previous posted stated maybe sonos could look into a web app and remove be platform agnostic, lowering development cost/time which clearly is required at sonos.
I have just learned of this announcement and wanted to post and register my disappointment with this decision. To frame this as only a problem with Windows phone users (of which I am one) is to miss the 270 million+ Windows 10 devices which are now going to miss out on a decent touch capable Sonos interface. Anyway, I will as usual vote with my wallet and certainly not be augmenting my Sonos system with new units. I had already suspected that I was buying into a product that was on a slow decline after the recent announcements of layoffs and 'refocusing', but this only reinforces the view that Sonos is not long for this world.

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