The Sonos Brexit and pragmatic ways past it

Forum|Forum|6 years ago
January 23, 2020
570 replies
22878 views

I will start this thread with a few caveats:

First, this thread is not for rants. There are plenty here for those, and there is no bar on opening new ones.

Second, the thread is directed for the subset of users that have a large investment in legacy products, and are content to see their Sonos systems as music systems that offer stable streamed music from either a NAS or from the net, and have no expectation of more bells and whistles - just that things continue to work as they are working today. I happen to be in this boat as well, as someone that has three out of six zones running very well on legacy products that I simply cannot afford to jettison until the hardware dies.

Third, this thread is based on facts, some of which have been coming to light only over the last 48 or so hours. It is therefore incomplete to an extent, and may even be wrong in places. Feel free therefore to clarify/correct/add as necessary - and I specifically invite @Ryan S to do so. But, no rants please - they have a place, but this is not it.

All that said, this is the solution I intend to proceed with and recommend here:

Opt for a legacy system operation in May, that will run legacy and modern products, exactly as these run today; no faffing around with two networks. No more enhancements, but expecting Sonos to honestly fulfil their recent promise of all bug fixes that the legacy products can accommodate. Ditto for what needs to be done to accommodate changes driven by at least the mainstream service providers.

By a happy coincidence, all legacy products have line in jacks. So if something even happens at the streaming service end that cannot be accommodated in legacy products, I am confident of finding some device that can be wired to the line in jacks of these, that will still allow streaming from the culprit service to work including in grouped mode with all other products in the system.

The streaming from the local NAS will not have any issues in this mode, other than hardware failures including that of the NAS, and a key assumption here is that NAS changes will not need a Sonos software update.

Although Sonos has said that new products can be added to such a system, I do not see how this is possible once new products come installed with versions that are beyond the frozen legacy system one. Unless Sonos is not going to sell any new products in future with versions beyond the 2020 legacy one - I doubt that. And once a product comes with the latest version, adding it to a legacy system without rendering legacy products inoperable is going to be tricky because it will involve first separating the one system into two; I also admit to being a little fuzzy with this bit. In my case, this is all moot; I have no need for another zone. As an aside, I am someone therefore that is not of much interest to Sonos!

I also assume that if anyone at any time in the future wanted to jettison legacy products for any reason, all they will need to do is leave all such products powered off, invoke updates and the result will be a Sonos system updated to the day they do the invocation. The concern here for me is different - I need to have an ironclad way of NOT updating my system before I am ready to separate or jettison legacy products, and this needs more insights into how things will work on this front in future.

I am pretty sure that this way ahead will work in my use case and I suggest it will also work for many that are heavily invested in Sonos legacy products, that do not want to write it off or to trade up to new products just to retain all existing functionality.

Yes, it involves losing future enhancements/features, but once we accept that these essentially are music boxes that will keep doing all they do today, that should be an acceptable trade off, I suggest. It is to me, for sure.

So this way, this event will be just a minor inconvenience, and I expect to be able to use all my existing products till the hardware fails.

What this event has convince me though is to now look at/recommend smart systems that are truly modular in the sense that the smart bits can be periodically replaced at low cost, while the core “dumb” electronic hardware can be of such build/after sales support, that it justifies the higher investment in the consequent price, if better sound quality is also needed than what the smart front ends can alone provide. But that's for the future.

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chickentender

@chickentender @chickentender I get what you suggest about the big three, so good luck with that - not many of us can do what you are doing, and I certainly cannot.

Just a quick summary response to all that. I by no means am not involved in any or all the big-3. It’s merely that for audio purchases (hardware) and streaming interfaces (or even purchasing music) I do not use them. I have an android phone and Google in my house. My wife has an iPhone and Macbook. We both shop with Amazon (far too much - something we’ve been actively trying to scale back). I take privacy measures on various fronts but I also am not uptight about. For me it’s mostly just about giving my direct dollars for devices and services to companies whose business is audio first (Sonos) and not big tech in general. This is why I’ll never go full Google audio, or Amazon echo link etc.. I well understand why many do - it’s cost effective and often works reasonably well.

exdirtfarmer

Enthusiast II

@Kumar, thanks for the photo of your setup. Can you stream Spotify using an Amazon Echo Show or are you limited to Amazon?

I plan to keep my system on legacy software and see how long things keep working. After that, not sure what I’ll do. Being on a continuous “upgrade” cycle is not appealing. I own a Connect Amp (actually ZP-120), Connect and gen 1 Play 5. I also own 2 new Sonos Amps, a product I really like as I use it with both TVs because I dislike sound bars. We love the ease of use of Sonos. It’s the one piece of tech my wife has no trouble using. I always knew this day would come, but I guess I avoided thinking through the implications. This is a real disaster for Sonos. I’ve used their products for 12 years, but have started looking at other options - a situation I couldn’t have imagined 2 weeks ago. I don’t know how they’ll sell their more expensive products now. I aspired to own a stereo pair of gen 2 Play 5s. I have 1 now, but won’t be buying a companion for it as my current one could be “retired” by Sonos in just 3 years. I also was thinking about 1 more Amp, but that won’t be happening either. Sonos really needs to come up with a solid solution to this, but they don’t have much time. I don’t see how this won’t significantly impact their business. Wondering how much time my 4 Play 1s and my Sub have left.

I’d imagine, as we’ve been discussing, if you’re remaining entirely legacy in your network, you have many years left for all your stuff. If you want a Play:5, look to the used market. I just had an offer accepted for 100 bucks… Quite the bargain. If you’re currently happy with how everything works and aren't aching for some sort of new API enhancement or voice feature, then I reckon you’re good to go. In fact, these legacy system could be far more stable for all of us remaining with them - fewer updates and changes mean fewer opportunities for for a wrench in the works as updates roll out.

Agreed. Purchase some spares and get them all on the same software and you should be able to carry on for a long time.

Powered by Firmware/Software 8.4 with Classic Blue Desktop Controller + CR100 + Ipod Dock + Homeseer 3 Sonos UPNP Plugin by dcorsus

K

KumarAuthor

The difference is the hardware”s best before date has been set to expire in May.

There is no choice but to ride it out and beg for a software install tool to be delivered before the servers shutdown.

Then we can continue to use the hardware as it is and attempt to keep it all running even after the Servers stop delivering Legacy. That day will come.

We can beg till the cows come home, but what then? I would say it is safe to assume that it isn't happening, so what with that assumption in place? Why do some big bang now instead of doing it as/if/when that delivery stops?

exdirtfarmer

Enthusiast II

I have no problem with current abilities. I had it locked at the version ?? to be able to use my CR100s for a long time but in a weak moment decided to update because I had tablets laying around which waited for another purpose. Which turned out to be not a great idea. I prefer the legacy devices like the ZP100/ZP120/Connect Amp for their design.and was curious if they block the ability to add those down the road.

They wont be turning any more devices off, they just may not allow them on the same network as the NEXT GENERATION Software. Everything should just plug along as is.

Powered by Firmware/Software 8.4 with Classic Blue Desktop Controller + CR100 + Ipod Dock + Homeseer 3 Sonos UPNP Plugin by dcorsus

exdirtfarmer

Enthusiast II

The difference is the hardware”s best before date has been set to expire in May.

There is no choice but to ride it out and beg for a software install tool to be delivered before the servers shutdown.

Then we can continue to use the hardware as it is and attempt to keep it all running even after the Servers stop delivering Legacy. That day will come.

We can beg till the cows come home, but what then? I would say it is safe to assume that it isn't happening, so what with that assumption in place? Why do some big bang now instead of doing it as/if/when that delivery stops?

We can only try. Based on the track record of SONOS, it probably won’t happen, but they have painted themselves in a bit of a corner, so it can’t hurt to bring the topic to attention again.

I won’t be doing any big bang thing here but I know that the clock is now ticking on my current $7000 multi zone audio delivery system. It would be prudent to plan and budget for a rebuild in then next 3-5 years. The NEXT GENERATION SONOS will be assessed, but I think I will be running more speaker wire this time. I can’t afford to replace my entire system every 5-7years.

Powered by Firmware/Software 8.4 with Classic Blue Desktop Controller + CR100 + Ipod Dock + Homeseer 3 Sonos UPNP Plugin by dcorsus

M

Meezer

Lyricist III

I confess to not having read everything/anything on these threads, so pardon any redundancy.

I have a CR200 that is part of an evolving ten year old multi-component system, with components classified as both legacy and current. The CR200 stopped updating a long time ago and is on software version 7 something. The balance of the system is up to date and on software 10 something. The CR200 works, the legacy products work, the non-legacy products work and the whole kit works together. It is therefore possible to make this happen, Sonos is doing it now. How? I have no clue, but they can and do.

No, I can’t talk to my CR200 but I suspect it does not have much to say. I just want to listen to music throughout the house and if that requires my pushIng a couple of buttons once in a while, I can cope. I want to keep what I have and enjoy the system as long as possible. If eventually some services either don’t function or deteriorate due to changes by third parties like Spotify or TuneIn, I will deal with it at that point.

By all means Sonos, introduce Play 2.0’s that won’t function with my current components but will talk to cats and play tracks streamed from the Borg. Have at it, but please leave my existing investment alone.

K

KumarAuthor

They wont be turning any more devices off, they just may not allow them on the same network as the NEXT GENERATION Software. Everything should just plug along as is.

There is no may about that - it is absolutely confirmed that nex gen Sonos can be in the home along with legacy products only as two separate systems that cannot intersect anywhere. Indeed, if they could do so, that is the end of every legitimate rant, and we can go back to business as usual. Who knows, they may still do it inspite of all the claims by them and their followers that this is not possible. In two days they changed their stance and pledged to keep legacy systems going with present functionality as opposed to the starting position of letting these wither on the vine, untended.

To be honest, anyone with the vision to take a long term/big picture view will understand that having legacy products alive and kicking vigorously even at a frozen functionality, but in the same play pen as nex gen Sonos is a far more substantial testimonial to the uniqueness of Sonos, more than it was before this event, when the claim of Sonos to be so where backward compatibility is concerned hadn’t been truly tested. If it is just a matter of cost, that is an investment that will pay off many times over with future sales from both existing and new owners. If the only reason to not do this is because it is impractical, a visionary leader would work with his team to make it practical. The truly hard part here has already been achieved - to build products that can match their audiophile cousins for longevity.

Instead a myopic view that...getting into rant mode, so I will stop here!

K

KumarAuthor

I have a CR200 that is part of an evolving ten year old multi-component system, with components classified as both legacy and current. The CR200 stopped updating a long time ago and is on software version 7 something. The balance of the system is up to date and on software 10 something. The CR200 works, the legacy products work, the non-legacy products work and the whole kit works together. It is therefore possible to make this happen, Sonos is doing it now. How? I have no clue, but they can and do.

I don’t know the CR200, never had it. But before responding to anything else, I have to stop you at the quoted, because this is something that goes completely against what I know about Sonos. I will have to ask someone else to step in to confirm what you say because according to me, this is impossible, for two versions to coexist.

And if they do, explain to me how they do and why this is different from what Sonos now says isn't possible.

K

KumarAuthor

I prefer the legacy devices like the ZP100/ZP120/Connect Amp for their design.and was curious if they block the ability to add those down the road.

I have not seen this to be said anywhere. Only a Connect Amp made after 2015, once it gets to a version after the legacy version, cannot be added. Of course, it should not have been bricked for recycling for a 30% claim.

So if you have a legacy system mode operating, and you want to add one of the above that are at or before that system version, the dedicated to legacy system app that is promised will allow you to add these products to the legacy system. At any time in the future.

@Ryan S / @Edward R - to please object if I am wrong.

K

KumarAuthor

Split system warning!

I wrote this on another thread just now and am copying that here, because the warning is very relevant here as well:

Split systems sound good in theory, but will rapidly become very tiresome to operate. I don't see anyone use these for long. The problem is that then the only option will be to go to one system with modern products, and dump the legacy products. Because the modern products won't make it back to any unified system that has legacy products in it.

One therefore needs to be very careful in opting for splits. I anticipate that many won’t, discover this truth too late, and then there will be another firestorm like this one.

PS:In that thread I was advised that I may be jumping the gun; before being given that advice, I had already flagged my response to @Ryan S for confirmation in the thread where I posted the above. If he disagrees with any of the above - I will post my eating of the above words on this thread.

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