Sonos support for Apple Music's Lossless Audio

Further to the above:

I agree with the Apple Music head, Eddy Cue, when he goes on record to say that there is no audible sound quality difference/gain in lossless v AAC lossy, except for the rare 1 or 2 percent of people with golden ears, when listening via high quality headphones. Based on my experience with audiophile - as in expensive - kit first, and then on Sonos which replaced it. And headphones are a product that isn't in the Sonos portfolio at this time, it must be noted.

Given that, this entire thread including its title is just white noise that masks the signal of what the thread really should be about - What will it take for Sonos to do spatial audio such that it is heard in a typical domestic environment in the manner it is designed to be heard?

This is going to much more than more bits and bytes and will have to include hardware that is delivering the sound into the room. I can't see the latest Sonos One, stereo paired, doing spatial audio successfully. Or even the 5 pair, for example.

I have no exposure to Sonos TV products, so I can't answer the question if that present hardware, if supplied and capable of playing spatial audio streams, are capable of delivering the spatial audio experience in the manner heard on the AirPods pro, to the room they are in. But that seems to be the important question to ask/discuss, instead of getting distracted by mere lossless audio and how to persuade Sonos to play it. All THAT will achieve is more of a burden on the home WiFi network.

There is no way I have golden ears. Just a very transparent headphone set up but absolutely true it is not a mass market product so 98pc probably will have never heard such a system so will never know how much better a proper hifi system with lossless can sound and frankly. probably don’t Care.

 I certainly was not aware what a dramatic difference it could make until I treated myself to a Hi-Fi headphone set up during lockdown and only then when I switched to lossless and a better quality source than Sonos  it probably is only 1-2pc of the market at most though. It is not the Sonos mass market for sure and I accept that lossless can’t be appreciated on Somos and I need to look elsewhere for a better quality source than Sonos for hifi listening. 

What remains hilarious is that how many of the 2% still claim to hear differences from lossless even while using loudspeakers ( as opposed to headphones)  in their homes to do so - never mind how proper HiFi the speakers or the rest of their system may even genuinely be.

The hilarious bit is that the man putting out lossless via his service says there is no difference to be heard on even such systems. Even by the 2%.

Now only if a equally placed purveyor of Hi Res audio, the other snake oil, was to say this….

On Lossless, a copy/paste from the net:

QUOTE:

“The reality of lossless is: if you take 100 people and you take a stereo song in lossless and you take a song that’s been in Apple Music that’s compressed, I don’t know if it’s 99 or 98 can’t tell the difference. You can tell somebody, ‘Oh, you’re listening to a lossless [song],’ and they tell you, ‘Oh, wow. That sounds incredible.’ They’re just saying it because you told them it’s lossless and it sounds like the right thing to say, but you just can’t tell.”

— Eddy Cue, Apple’s SVP of Services (including Apple Music), on the reality of “lossless” digital music.

I’m sure this is all true — and in listening to the new lossless files for a few days, my ears believe it to be true as well (when I can get the streams to work, that is) — but it’s still amusing/surprising to hear Cue frame it this way at the launch of Apple’s offering.

:UNQUOTE

Let the games begin...

Absolutely to be honest I can hear no difference between lossy and lossless on my mid range hifi speakers system, mass market headphones/earbuds or using Sonos.  They are simply not transparent enough.
 

I can completely believe  that 98pc of the public are listening on mass market music devices and therefore can not tell the difference beitreten lossy and lissless. I most certainly can’t.
 

Transparent hi end hifi headphone are something else though. I can hear details I never knew was there before and there the effect is stunning.  CD quality was originally. chosen for a reason   Of course people only have a limited hearing range and no one in hifi claims otherwise so the arguments against hifi are spurious.  It is how natural it sounds within human hearing range that matters. Here
you should listen to manufacturers whete Sonos freely admits that it is not hifi.it is an excellent lifestyle product.  The sound is highly processed and distorted which sounds good on Sonos speakers which most people are satisfied with but it is not  hifi which is fair enough because it is not designed sold or marketed as hifi so I can see why they see the whole lossless and hi res spurious as it is for the mass market who are not interested in hifi  

I

Begs the Question… Why did we just obsolete our old Sonos kit and upgrade to S2 if no one will be able to hear the difference ?

Maybe time to dig out those old Play 5’s and downgrade everything to S1

I feel an email coming on to Sonos support…...

Hi Res on Sonos is much more a marketing check the box thing; S2 is meant to allow other advances, probably more for the sound for TV side of things. 

I can’t hear the difference between ALAC lossless and AAC lossy files on Sonos equipment let alone Hi-Res so suspect it is just marketing whcih is still relevant given tthe move of the main music streamer services to hi-res. Personally it needs some hign end equipment before I can hear the difference between lossy and lossless.24 bit files do sound better on hifi but suspect they are just better original recordings and i can’t hear the difference with hi res sample rates on hifi. So personally don’t see any benefit between lossy and lossless on Sonos let alone hi res but dramatic improvement in listening pleasure on hifi. My conclusion is it just isn’t relevant on Sonos from a listening poin tof view because it isn’t hifi but that is absolutely no criticism of Sonos because it doesn’t claim to be hifi. .   . 

I could not hear these differences even on a Harbeth C7 speaker pair driven by a Quad preamp/amp. 

Either this equipment was also not HiFi, or my ears are shot. 

No complaints, because this was a very liberating discovery.

I believe you. I can’t hear the difference between lossless and lossy on my hifi speakers using Sonos connect. The sound quality of my hifi is still way better than my Sonos system as it sounds a lot more natural than the processed sound of my Sonos system   Just in the same way as my Sonos sounds way better than Bluetooth speakers which sound way better than my mobile phone speakers. Every hifi user ive come across still prefers Sonos app for casual background listening which is its purpose just not for focused listening. Others don’t care. Each to their own. 
 

It is only on a very revealing headphone system that I can hear the difference and there it has made the difference between listening occasionally and every day and skipping lossy tracks. But the most dramatic difference has been swopping the Sonis connect for a usb cable which highlighted how dramatically the Sonos was limiting the sound quality of my headphones. The USB cable was a lot cheaper than the connect but you would still need a revealing system to appreciate the difference.  It is a completely different experience which enables you to get lost in the music and hear details you have never heard before. It is a relatively niche market though and I don’t doubt that there are better systems than mine that are even more revealing.

I fully appreciate that a lot of people will be entirely satisfied with the Sonos processed sound as I am for background music  but some people will also get s lot more pleasure from a more natural and accurate sound. it’s Personal preference.