Sonos support for Apple Music's Lossless Audio

Technical team from another manufacturer whose talking to Apple now saying Apple Music lossless should be availaible on AirPlay on 24/48 as soon as it is enabled which sounds promising. Would be nice to also have integrated into Sonos as other equipment users want but Sonos app very basic compared to Apple app   So with lossless incoming on AirPlay and hi res already available via USB cable with Apple Music excellent UI and Music algorithms at no extra cost my glass is more than half Full. Sonos app integrated and hi res via WiFi would be nice to haves. More importantly as listen moreenjoying the subtle improvement in sound quality particularly between lossy and lossless. Although the difference in sound quality is small the impact on me getting into the Music is significant as the music just sounds more real and natural. 

Listening to Apple Music lossless some more on hifi via USB cable is sounding way better than Sonos connect. Just gone up a level. Cable also a lot cheaper than a port so definitely the best way to connect Apple Music to Hi-Fi until if and when Sonos comes up with a hi res port upgrade that doesn’t distort the sound. 

Does anyone know if the LINE IN signal on the Sonos Amp (latest gen) goes through ADC/DAC processing steps before it’s sent to the speakers?

My sense is yes, since you can stream it through the house and it needs to delay the local audio to sync with the rest of the network. i.e. the analog input can’t be a simple pass through to the speakers. 

But I’d love to be proven wrong as it could be a viable solution for hi-res Apple Music until support is built into the Sonos software.

I think the line in wil go through the DAC as it is an analogue line in and the only way to avoid the Sonos processing the sound is to have a digital souce in and use the digital out with fixed volume. As the Port doesn’t have a digital USB input then hi res from Apple to Sonos isn’t possible at moment. Potentially you could use a lighting/USB  to RCA adapter to play Apple lossless to the Port. If it is just delaying/buffering sound then it is not processing the sound as I understand it.

At the moment playing direct from iphone via CCK adapter and USB cable to my DAC is sounding way better than lossless CD rip files via Sonos so if you can connect direct to a DAC and avoid going via Sonos that is what i recommend. 

My feeling is will not take long for Apple to anable 24/48 on Airplay but no intergated solution anytime soon and if you want Apple Music hi res then best look elsewhere than Sonos as that is not its market.   

I think that I have finally come up with a solution for streaming Apple Music to Sonos that is a fully lossless playback chain.

When I stream Apple Lossless from my iPhone to an Apple TV 4K, the Apple TV consistently shows that it is playing either lossless or hi-res audio. I attached the Apple TV to an HDMI splitter with a digital display that gives you information on the audio and video streams, and the Apple TV puts out a fixed 24/48 over HDMI.

Using an AmazonBasics HDMI Audio Extractor, I can output the audio over SPDIF. I haven't been able to find tech specs on the audio extractor, but if it can handle 4K video, I assume it can handle 2-channel 24/48 audio.

Right now I am running SPDIF into a Sonos Amp via the Sonos optical to HDMI Arc adapter. For as kludgy a solution as this is, it sounds pretty good, and I am able to stream from Apple Music to the Apple TV 4K without routing the signal through a TV.

I assume that everything is getting resampled to 24/48 and I am routing HDMI to optical SPDIF to HDMI Arc, but I think I finally confidently have a lossless playback chain from Apple Music to Sonos.

That should work. A very niche solution though.    Curious what Apple will do. They always specified hi res content from providers. The implementation of lossless and hi res on Apple Music is excellent. It sounds really good and I much prefer the Apple UI and alogoriths are excellent having trialled all other streaming services My radio station and new music really. Sound like personally created for me. 
 

But all other services are better integrated with other manufacturers hardware. Given their reluctance to share API then AirPlay upgrade is my guess. 

Me too and I hope everyone on this forum will do likewise

Living with Apple Music lossless 

i don’t want to listen to lossy files anymore on hifi  don’t notice difference listening on Sonos or out and about

24 bit recordings bit sound better than 16 but on hifi beyond that not convinced

 Bits might be bits but in practice Sonos is not a good enough source for good hifi    Playing Apple Music lossless files from iPhone rather than via Sonos has been difference between wanting to listen occasionally and at every opportunity  Sonos for everyday use round house absolutely  For focused listening to hi fi  just no  I was really missing out big time using Sonos as hi fi source  

so in conclusion I think whether Sonos get Apple Music lossless is irrelevant  it isn’t revealing enough  Most of my casual listening will be on Sonos but for a hifi streamer I will be looking elsewhere given the dramatic sound quality difference  

I finally got to listen to spatial audio on an IPhone+airpods pro, and that led me to do some reading on this new feature that led me to the linked interview with the head of Apple Services/Music, Eddy Cue.

https://www.macrumors.com/2021/06/08/eddy-cue-spatial-audio-interview/

His comments seem spot on with respect to how - in his opinion - lossless cannot be distinguished from AAC lossy by over 98% of people including him, in a blind test. And where it can, in another interview, he notes that it takes very high quality headphones and a special 1 to 2 percent of people with the right ears - I suppose because otherwise room acoustics will wash away any very minute audible difference. So much for running after just more bits and bytes then…

His comments on spatial audio also seem to tally with my listening to comparison samples available on Apple Music - the difference is very audible and to an extent that I can see it surviving without headphones, as long as all the right kit is used downstream, in a domestic environment.

Now whether that different sound will be preferred to what is the existing presentation of stereo music as a sound stage in front of the listener will be a personal preference, and I am sure there are some that will not want to listen to music where it feels that one is standing on stage in the middle of the band. Others might prefer that new experience.

So although he uses HDTV as an analogy for how vast the difference is with spatial audio, no one that watches HDTV then ends up preferring the standard version. To that extent, the analogy may fail.

Yes I would fully agree there is no way I can hear the difference between lossless and lossy on Sonos and regular headphones/earbuds  or outside 

 I have a very high quality headphone set up and moving to lossless and hi res is a subtle difference in sound quality which makes a dramatic difference in listening pleasure. It just sounds way less compressed and more lifelike but only with high quality headphones. I just skip the few remaining lossy filed and replace with lossless versions as they are now so disappointing in comparison. It may well be that the dramatic improvement in  listening pleasure is also due to moving away from Sonos as the source as it simply isn’t a good enough source for quality hifi. But I would completely agree that it is a niche market currently so I can see why Sonos and Apple Music are not bothered about it. It is a shame though given the dramatic difference in listening pleasure.it really is a wow experience and a pity more people don’t get the opportunity to hear it  

i would also agree the Dolby Atmos sounds more distinctly different but I’ve switched it off as to me sounds very forced and distorted and much prefer the high res versions of the files but that may well be different on other headphones more specifically designed for Dolby atoms.