Skip to main content
tonsure
Avid Contributor I
November 8, 2021

Apple Music lossless via S2?

  • November 8, 2021
  • 66 replies
  • 17996 views

I know this question has been asked (but apparently not answered) previously, but I thought I’d try again.

When listening to music directly through Apple Music on my Sonos speakers (via Airplay), I definitely notice improved quality with the new “lossless” quality offered by Apple. My ears, however, seem to think that the quality isn’t as high-fidelity when I listen to the same music via the S2 app (which, of course, is pulling the same music from my Apple Music subscription). However, I’m willing to admit that this perceived difference in quality may be psycho-somatic (since I’m still confused as to whether the S2 app is capable of accessing lossless files when it queries the Apple Music database).

Any chance either Apple or Sonos have provided an authoritative answer to this question? I.e. when S2 streams a file from Apple Music, is Apple giving them access to the lossless files? Or is Apple reserving those files for customers who are using the Apple Music interface? (For what it’s worth, I’ve noticed that music that I’ve listened to recently via the S2 app is showing-up on my Apple Music widget as “recently played”; so there’s definitely some background dialogue happening between the two apps).

Ps: the reason this matters— I would much rather use the S2 app to control music, as Airplay has unfortunately proven very unstable on my Sonos system (especially across multiple speakers) since moving to a new apartment—whereas S2 (for the most part) has been stable/reliable.

 

This topic has been closed for further comments. You can use the search bar to find a similar topic, or create a new one by clicking Create Topic at the top of the page.

66 replies

Trending Lyricist I
January 3, 2022

I also have a Yamaha WXA50 here to test and its MusicCast app shows the bit / sampling rate on any incoming audio from a NAS / Radio EXCEPT when you use Airplay, where it just goes blank. 

ratty
January 3, 2022

I also have a Yamaha WXA50 here to test and its MusicCast app shows the bit / sampling rate on any incoming audio from a NAS / Radio EXCEPT when you use Airplay, where it just goes blank. 

… which is not relevant to Sonos. Airplay encoding will depend on the characteristics of the target. Unless one can peek inside the system via the diagnostics (off limits to users) the stream bandwidth is the best, probably only, guide.

Trending Lyricist I
January 3, 2022

I also have a Yamaha WXA50 here to test and its MusicCast app shows the bit / sampling rate on any incoming audio from a NAS / Radio EXCEPT when you use Airplay, where it just goes blank. 

… which is not relevant to Sonos. Airplay encoding will depend on the characteristics of the target. Unless one can peek inside the system via the diagnostics (off limits to users) the stream bandwidth is the best, probably only, guide.

This is fascinating. Can you confirm that AirPlay alters it’s bitrate depending on the target then? What if I access Apple Music from within the Sonos app - wouldn’t that cut iOS out of handling the stream?

 

ratty
January 3, 2022

I also have a Yamaha WXA50 here to test and its MusicCast app shows the bit / sampling rate on any incoming audio from a NAS / Radio EXCEPT when you use Airplay, where it just goes blank. 

… which is not relevant to Sonos. Airplay encoding will depend on the characteristics of the target. Unless one can peek inside the system via the diagnostics (off limits to users) the stream bandwidth is the best, probably only, guide.

This is fascinating. Can you confirm that AirPlay alters it’s bitrate depending on the target then?

So I’m led to believe, but I'm not really a dedicated iPerson.

 

What if I access Apple Music from within the Sonos app - wouldn’t that cut iOS out of handling the stream?

Certainly. But at present Sonos doesn’t support Apple Music Lossless … hence this thread.

Trending Lyricist I
January 3, 2022

I also have a Yamaha WXA50 here to test and its MusicCast app shows the bit / sampling rate on any incoming audio from a NAS / Radio EXCEPT when you use Airplay, where it just goes blank. 

… which is not relevant to Sonos. Airplay encoding will depend on the characteristics of the target. Unless one can peek inside the system via the diagnostics (off limits to users) the stream bandwidth is the best, probably only, guide.

This is fascinating. Can you confirm that AirPlay alters it’s bitrate depending on the target then?

So I’m led to believe, but I'm not really a dedicated iPerson.

 

What if I access Apple Music from within the Sonos app - wouldn’t that cut iOS out of handling the stream?

Certainly. But at present Sonos doesn’t support Apple Music Lossless … hence this thread.

Why is Sonos fully ‘in with Apple’ by offering AP2 and now supports ‘hi res’ audio but then wouldn’t support Apple Lossless?

Anybody from Sonos on this forum that can clarify?

ratty
January 3, 2022

Why is Sonos fully ‘in with Apple’ by offering AP2 and now supports ‘hi res’ audio but then wouldn’t support Apple Lossless?

Anybody from Sonos on this forum that can clarify?

We don’t need further clarification. See https://support.sonos.com/s/article/3282

What is the streaming rate and streaming format for Apple Music on Sonos?
64kbps HE-AAC, 128kbps AAC, 256kbps AAC

 

As for when or if Apple Music Lossless will be supported that would be dependent on Apple. It’s the service which works to Sonos’ API.

If the parties are working on it you certainly wouldn’t have that confirmed here by Sonos staff. They don’t pre-announce. Rather like Apple in fact.

‘Hi res’ (so-called, in this case 24-bit) audio is available from Amazon and Qobuz because they made it so.

Trending Lyricist I
January 3, 2022

Why is Sonos fully ‘in with Apple’ by offering AP2 and now supports ‘hi res’ audio but then wouldn’t support Apple Lossless?

Anybody from Sonos on this forum that can clarify?

We don’t need further clarification. See https://support.sonos.com/s/article/3282

What is the streaming rate and streaming format for Apple Music on Sonos?
64kbps HE-AAC, 128kbps AAC, 256kbps AAC

 

As for when or if Apple Music Lossless will be supported that would be dependent on Apple. It’s the service which works to Sonos’ API.

If the parties are working on it you certainly wouldn’t have that confirmed here by Sonos staff. They don’t pre-announce. Rather like Apple in fact.

‘Hi res’ (so-called, in this case 24-bit) audio is available from Amazon and Qobuz because they made it so.

Appreciate your responses.

 

Bizarre that Apple wouldn’t make lossless available on such a popular and premium brand like Sonos. Crazy in fact.

January 3, 2022

Bizarre that Apple wouldn’t make lossless available on such a popular and premium brand like Sonos. Crazy in fact.

I have a different issue with Apple Music, it won’t let me use the native app - which I prefer to the one in the Sonos app - with either Sonos or Echo in such a way that the music stream switches to those devices once selected on the native app, bypassing the phone once that is done, for music play. Both Amazon Music and Spotify allow this, so I just moved over to Spotify and in few days, I got used to that native app and now prefer it. As far as music libraries are concerned, I suspect all three would be pretty much the same.

I can’t hear any difference between Spotify or Apple lossy streams, or, for that matter, when I play the same albums ripped in Apple lossless format from my CD collection, so sound quality isn't a concern.

Trending Lyricist I
January 3, 2022

Bizarre that Apple wouldn’t make lossless available on such a popular and premium brand like Sonos. Crazy in fact.

I have a different issue with Apple Music, it won’t let me use the native app - which I prefer to the one in the Sonos app - with either Sonos or Echo in such a way that the music stream switches to those devices once selected on the native app, bypassing the phone once that is done, for music play. Both Amazon Music and Spotify allow this, so I just moved over to Spotify and in few days, I got used to that native app and now prefer it. As far as music libraries are concerned, I suspect all three would be pretty much the same.

I can’t hear any difference between Spotify or Apple lossy streams, or, for that matter, when I play the same albums ripped in Apple lossless format from my CD collection, so sound quality isn't a concern.

What’s your audio setup?

January 3, 2022

What’s your audio setup?

Some zones have Connect Amps driving Quad/KEF speakers, while one zone is a Sonos play 1 pair + Sub. The Echo Show units are to confer voice command when needed, as well as album art, wired to Sonos line in jacks because the Sonos Alexa integration will probably never make it to India.