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tonsure
Avid Contributor I
November 8, 2021

Apple Music lossless via S2?

  • November 8, 2021
  • 66 replies
  • 17996 views

I know this question has been asked (but apparently not answered) previously, but I thought I’d try again.

When listening to music directly through Apple Music on my Sonos speakers (via Airplay), I definitely notice improved quality with the new “lossless” quality offered by Apple. My ears, however, seem to think that the quality isn’t as high-fidelity when I listen to the same music via the S2 app (which, of course, is pulling the same music from my Apple Music subscription). However, I’m willing to admit that this perceived difference in quality may be psycho-somatic (since I’m still confused as to whether the S2 app is capable of accessing lossless files when it queries the Apple Music database).

Any chance either Apple or Sonos have provided an authoritative answer to this question? I.e. when S2 streams a file from Apple Music, is Apple giving them access to the lossless files? Or is Apple reserving those files for customers who are using the Apple Music interface? (For what it’s worth, I’ve noticed that music that I’ve listened to recently via the S2 app is showing-up on my Apple Music widget as “recently played”; so there’s definitely some background dialogue happening between the two apps).

Ps: the reason this matters— I would much rather use the S2 app to control music, as Airplay has unfortunately proven very unstable on my Sonos system (especially across multiple speakers) since moving to a new apartment—whereas S2 (for the most part) has been stable/reliable.

 

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66 replies

Lyricist II
December 3, 2021

That is true.  I have found most of these focus on apple devices and also too many of them are on headphones, very few on AVRs and DAPs (I have been trying to establish which DAP has bitperfect USB output and allows installation and operation of Apple Music - no luck so far)  I subscribed to Apple music for a bit on android.  I used Airplay 2 and chromecast (and a USB DAC).  I wasn’t able to measure, but I was convinced I was getting 256AAC in both cases.  I am trying to find a workaround (someone in here posted something similar which I thought was quite smart - checking router data vs Airplayed data and comparing the two.  I have installed Glasswire - not sure if it will do what I want, but worth a try.

ratty
December 3, 2021

I wish someone would simply measure the bandwidth of the Airplay stream sent by Apple Music when playing lossless (as I did with Deezer). That would confirm it one way or the other.

As I have a trial subscription to Apple Music I got around to measuring it.

When ostensibly playing ‘Lossless’ on the iPad Apple Music app the AirPlay stream to a Sonos player averaged only ~300kbps over 10 minutes. It was also pretty steady, not rising and falling with the music complexity. It looks like AAC256. 

By contrast the AirPlay stream from the Deezer app when playing lossless is around 1Mbps, i.e. ALAC.

Lyricist II
December 3, 2021

That is foolproof

Trending Lyricist I
January 3, 2022

I wish someone would simply measure the bandwidth of the Airplay stream sent by Apple Music when playing lossless (as I did with Deezer). That would confirm it one way or the other.

As I have a trial subscription to Apple Music I got around to measuring it.

When ostensibly playing ‘Lossless’ on the iPad Apple Music app the AirPlay stream to a Sonos player averaged only ~300kbps over 10 minutes. It was also pretty steady, not rising and falling with the music complexity. It looks like AAC256. 

By contrast the AirPlay stream from the Deezer app when playing lossless is around 1Mbps, i.e. ALAC.

This is pretty confusing - why would Apple allow a rival music service to send superior quality audio than their own Music app over their own protocol?

 

Is there no way then to get lossless Apple Music to a AP2 enabled Sonos Amp either via iOS or S2 app?

Trending Lyricist I
January 3, 2022

I wish someone would simply measure the bandwidth of the Airplay stream sent by Apple Music when playing lossless (as I did with Deezer). That would confirm it one way or the other.

An easier and more conclusive way would be if anyone has a DAC that shows the incoming bitrate to just run this test? Many DACs do.

Lyricist II
January 3, 2022

I wish someone would simply measure the bandwidth of the Airplay stream sent by Apple Music when playing lossless (as I did with Deezer). That would confirm it one way or the other.

An easier and more conclusive way would be if anyone has a DAC that shows the incoming bitrate to just run this test? Many DACs do.

Which DAC has this capability - to show incoming bitrate?  I have searched extensively and have been unable to find one.

ratty
January 3, 2022

I wish someone would simply measure the bandwidth of the Airplay stream sent by Apple Music when playing lossless (as I did with Deezer). That would confirm it one way or the other.

An easier and more conclusive way would be if anyone has a DAC that shows the incoming bitrate to just run this test? Many DACs do.

A DAC connected where exactly? A Port outputs 24/44.1 PCM on its S/PDIF regardless of the original source content. 

Trending Lyricist I
January 3, 2022

I wish someone would simply measure the bandwidth of the Airplay stream sent by Apple Music when playing lossless (as I did with Deezer). That would confirm it one way or the other.

An easier and more conclusive way would be if anyone has a DAC that shows the incoming bitrate to just run this test? Many DACs do.

Which DAC has this capability - to show incoming bitrate?  I have searched extensively and have been unable to find one.

 

Check this out:

 

Trending Lyricist I
January 3, 2022

I’m not bothered about anything over 16/44 as I just don’t buy the hires thing. I’ve tried a lot it on some decent DACs and Amp (Arcam, Linn etc) wired from a NAS and can hear no difference.

 

I’ve kept my main Monitor Audio speakers but now use Sonos Amp and soundbars / subs  around the house because it just works and has the best app and Apple compatibility - we’re a heavy  Apple household and everyone needs easy access.

 

But - would be a shame to learn that AAC is all that’s available as I do believe there is a difference to 16/44

January 3, 2022

 I just don’t buy the hires thing.

But - would be a shame to learn that AAC is all that’s available as I do believe there is a difference to 16/44

There I agree with you, where Hi Res is concerned. As to the second, Apple themselves say that there is no difference in a level matched blind test between Apple lossless and lossy, that their engineers can hear. There are some reports though, that Apple lossless streams run a little hotter so as to deliver a slightly higher sound level at the same volume control setting on the kit. If so, that will make an audible difference, but that is easy to fix.