Avid Contributor I

Apple Music lossless via S2?

Forum|Forum|4 years ago
November 8, 2021
66 replies
17996 views

I know this question has been asked (but apparently not answered) previously, but I thought I’d try again.

When listening to music directly through Apple Music on my Sonos speakers (via Airplay), I definitely notice improved quality with the new “lossless” quality offered by Apple. My ears, however, seem to think that the quality isn’t as high-fidelity when I listen to the same music via the S2 app (which, of course, is pulling the same music from my Apple Music subscription). However, I’m willing to admit that this perceived difference in quality may be psycho-somatic (since I’m still confused as to whether the S2 app is capable of accessing lossless files when it queries the Apple Music database).

Any chance either Apple or Sonos have provided an authoritative answer to this question? I.e. when S2 streams a file from Apple Music, is Apple giving them access to the lossless files? Or is Apple reserving those files for customers who are using the Apple Music interface? (For what it’s worth, I’ve noticed that music that I’ve listened to recently via the S2 app is showing-up on my Apple Music widget as “recently played”; so there’s definitely some background dialogue happening between the two apps).

Ps: the reason this matters— I would much rather use the S2 app to control music, as Airplay has unfortunately proven very unstable on my Sonos system (especially across multiple speakers) since moving to a new apartment—whereas S2 (for the most part) has been stable/reliable.

This topic has been closed for further comments. You can use the search bar to find a similar topic, or create a new one by clicking Create Topic at the top of the page.

Show previous replies

S

Sonorous

Trending Lyricist I

How can I check bandwidth? What people were claiming was that the Apple Music App was converting lossless to AAC before streaming via Airplay. Wouldn’t necessarily apply to Deezer.

ratty

How can I check bandwidth?

It depends on your network. I was using the bandwidth monitor on a router running Tomato.

What people were claiming was that the Apple Music App was converting lossless to AAC before streaming via Airplay.

A quick scan of the Audiophile Style post suggests the results could be dependent on the app and the Airplay2 target. I have no way to compare, since my only target is Sonos and I have no Apple Music content on my iPad apart from the free U2/Songs Of Innocence album which appears to be in 256kbps AAC. Maybe if the Apple Music app is fed a lossless stream it would then send it on to Sonos as lossless. That would be logical, but I have no way to tell.

What I can note, however, is that the Airplay traffic looks totally different from the Apple Music app compared to Deezer. The former is sent in chunks averaging about 280kbps (which is logical given the U2 AAC256 content), whereas the traffic from Deezer is a steady stream averaging ~1Mbps. The Deezer traffic also has all the hallmarks of lossless compression, in that the bitrate rises and falls depending on the complexity of the music.

G

Gert_4

Prominent Collaborator I

Yes Appel Music sounds much better on Sonos when using the Appel Music App and using Airplay2.

I am listening via a Port and yes I have disconnected the EQ setting in the Appel Music App and set the App to Lossless.

K

Kumar

The head of Apple Music is on record as saying that he/his team cannot pick out AAC v ALAC served via Apple Music in a blind listening test, except perhaps via high quality headphones.

It is of course possible that some people can hear what Apple folks themselves cannot but this may be something to keep in mind while pursuing Apple lossless.

K

Kumar

However, I’m willing to admit that this perceived difference in quality may be psycho-somatic (since I’m still confused as to whether the S2 app is capable of accessing lossless files when it queries the Apple Music database).

Another equally valid reason you are hearing a difference could be if the sound levels for the compared alternatives are not identical down to 0.1dB. The louder will sound better, even if the louder is by just 0.1dB.

The solution to this issue suggests itself - just bump up the volume controls a notch on the less loud alternative.

K

kithytom

Avid Contributor I

I was trying to easily airplay lossless tracks from apple music on my iPhone to my sonos but apparently that’s no possible. here is the test:

I’m wondering what’s the roadblock.

Airplay protocol restriction?

Wifi transfer speed limitation?

Lazy Apple Engineers?

Lazy Sonos Engineers?

K

kithytom

Avid Contributor I

Yes Appel Music sounds much better on Sonos when using the Appel Music App and using Airplay2.

I am listening via a Port and yes I have disconnected the EQ setting in the Appel Music App and set the App to Lossless.

Both S2 → Airplay or Apple Music (set Lossless) → Airplay will result in non-lossless playback on Sonos devices. How come you could perceive the difference?

G

Gert_4

Prominent Collaborator I

I experience a more airy, open and distinct dynamic sound.

And of course I know everything about "Kumar’s" countless and many times written standard, - but correct, “sound leveling” answer.

But in this case you perhaps can get around this sound level problem

And perhaps it may not have anything to do with the Sonos App, but it may still be connected.

If you go to the iPad's Settings under Music and then to sound quality you could, when playing, switch between the Lossless sound and the Standard sound.

And yes, there is a short interruption when you the change the sound quality setting, but I sense an improvement of the sound when I "switch" to the Lossless Sound.

And I do not think, that this possible sound change, could be noticed on any Sonos speakers, but playing via a Port and a good sound system, I do sense a sound change for the better.

Just another thing, when I play a “normal” sound source via Airplay2, my Ipad does not get very hot, but when I play Lossless from the Apple Music App, the back of my Ipad gets hot, this may indicate that the iPad works extra hard when it plays Lossless.

But whether the Appel Music App also sends Lossless to my Port I do not know, but I as “tonsure”, who started this tread, I am also experiencing a sound improvement, - but I could be wrong.

K

Kumar

I experience a more airy, open and distinct dynamic sound.

And of course I know everything about "Kumar’s" countless and many times written standard, - but correct, “sound leveling” answer.

But in this case you perhaps can get around this sound level problem

Perhaps I have not understood the reply posted, but in response to the last sentence quoted would it not be simpler to just use the volume control?

G

Gert_4

Prominent Collaborator I

I experience a more airy, open and distinct dynamic sound.

And of course I know everything about "Kumar’s" countless and many times written standard, - but correct, “sound leveling” answer.

But in this case you perhaps can get around this sound level problem

Perhaps I have not understood the reply posted, but in response to the last sentence quoted would it not be simpler to just use the volume control?

The music from the Appel Music App plays via Port.

In the iPad's Music quality setting, you simply switch Lossless on or off.

The music plays all the time with the same volume.

You just turn the Lossless stream on or off.

When you do this, the Music continues to play, except that it is very briefly muted when you switch from the standard sound to Lossless or the other way around.

Hope this makes sense.

Show more replies

Sign up

Login to the community