Avid Contributor I

Apple Music lossless via S2?

Forum|Forum|4 years ago
November 8, 2021
66 replies
17996 views

I know this question has been asked (but apparently not answered) previously, but I thought I’d try again.

When listening to music directly through Apple Music on my Sonos speakers (via Airplay), I definitely notice improved quality with the new “lossless” quality offered by Apple. My ears, however, seem to think that the quality isn’t as high-fidelity when I listen to the same music via the S2 app (which, of course, is pulling the same music from my Apple Music subscription). However, I’m willing to admit that this perceived difference in quality may be psycho-somatic (since I’m still confused as to whether the S2 app is capable of accessing lossless files when it queries the Apple Music database).

Any chance either Apple or Sonos have provided an authoritative answer to this question? I.e. when S2 streams a file from Apple Music, is Apple giving them access to the lossless files? Or is Apple reserving those files for customers who are using the Apple Music interface? (For what it’s worth, I’ve noticed that music that I’ve listened to recently via the S2 app is showing-up on my Apple Music widget as “recently played”; so there’s definitely some background dialogue happening between the two apps).

Ps: the reason this matters— I would much rather use the S2 app to control music, as Airplay has unfortunately proven very unstable on my Sonos system (especially across multiple speakers) since moving to a new apartment—whereas S2 (for the most part) has been stable/reliable.

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jgatie

Airplay is going to apply any DSP’s the Apple Music app on the phone is using, whereas Sonos is playing the raw data. So it may be the case that it sounds different. Look under the Settings in the Apple Music app, specifically the Sound Quality and Effects settings.

tonsureAuthor

Avid Contributor I

Airplay is going to apply any DSP’s the Apple Music app on the phone is using, whereas Sonos is playing the raw data. So it may be the case that it sounds different. Look under the Settings in the Apple Music app, specifically the Sound Quality and Effects settings.

Actually: that’s precisely my question. Is S2 actually playing the raw (lossless) files? Or is Apple only reserving access to those lossless files for those who are listening via the Apple Music app. (To clarify: the music, to my ears, sounds “better” through Apple Music, not through S2—so this has nothing to do with settings on my Apple Music app. It has to do with S2’s access to source files).

jgatie

Actually: that’s precisely my question. Is S2 actually playing the raw (lossless) files? Or is Apple only reserving access to those lossless files for those who are listening via the Apple Music app. (To clarify: the music, to my ears, sounds “better” through Apple Music, not through S2—so this has nothing to do with settings on my Apple Music app. It has to do with S2’s access to source files).

Why would you think any DSP being applied by the Apple Music app couldn’t make the Airplay sound better? They don’t put DSP processing in to make it sound worse (even though to some ears it may). They put those DSP’s in because some people like them, and without knowing what DSP is turned on, you can’t know if you like them or not, hence why I asked.

Though if you doubt Sonos is actually getting the same quality files, you can use a bandwidth monitor to see the size of each file as it is being streamed.

ratty

As far as I’m aware Sonos doesn’t yet support Apple Music lossless for direct play.

Using the Apple Music app on an iDevice along with Airplay would in theory permit a lossless path.

jgatie

As far as I’m aware Sonos doesn’t yet support Apple Music lossless for direct play.

Using the Apple Music app on an iDevice along with Airplay would in theory permit a lossless path.

Really? I learn something new every day. Glad to be corrected.

ratty

Of course there’s still the possibility for EQ to introduce variations, so I’ll concede that ‘lossless’ could be a debatable point there. I meant that there shouldn’t need to be lossy compression in the chain.

S

Sonorous

Trending Lyricist I

When Apple Music Lossless first rolled out, there was a lot of evidence that what was being streamed over AirPlay 2 was in fact lossy AAC and not ALAC.

I’m not sure if they have remedied this situation, but as of a few months ago, you could not be guaranteed that streaming from Apple Music to Sonos was lossless through either the native app or the Sonos app.

ratty

It would be odd to send AAC over Airplay if the native Apple Music app was streaming in as ALAC. Why incur the processing overhead of psycho-acoustic lossy compression when it’s totally unnecessary?

According to https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AirPlay#Protocols Airplay uses ALAC. I don’t subscribe to Apple Music but I do have Deezer HiFi (FLAC), and bandwidth measurements of the Airplay traffic support the assertion that it’s ALAC.