Hello. My name is Ben Smith and I head up Product Management for Experience, Software, and Developer Programs at Sonos.
I wanted to get more feedback from you all on your expectations for Shuffling tracks in your queue. I have reviewed the feedback on ask.sonos.com and received e-mails from a few of you (via our CEO John MacFarlane), but I wanted to get a better sense from those of you who use Shuffle, how your really want it to work.
When you select shuffle what do you want to happen? What don't you want to happen?
Thanks!
Ben
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Userlevel 7
+17
Ben - please don't be too hasty in "have the team deselect shuffle when the queue is cleared." Will this apply on when clearing the queue manually or also replacing the queue with new music ? I might well wish to replace the queue but have the new tracks still shuffle without having to press shuffle button again - especially since I have to listen to that first track again !! I think the best option is as Jason suggests which is both a 'shuffle and replace' option in addition to a straight 'replace without shuffle'
As I pointed out in my feedback on beta, I'd be happy for the currently playing track to continue if PLAYING but if I am paused, I'd like that track to be shuffled with the rest and a new track selected to play. Anyone else? I do also like the sound as add to playlist / replace playlist shuffle or add to playlist / replace playlist.
I have just submitted some beta feedback on one thing that really annoys me. Here is the scenario.
1. I create or load a playlist and hit shuffle. (The visibility of this shuffle is now great btw).
2. A while later, I want to switch to Radio so I hit pause on the queue and listen to radio.
3. When I want to go back to my shuffled playlist. The playlist is still in the queue but it is not paused on the position I left it in. So I end up having to guess where I was. Which is a pain!!
Hope this can be addressed.
1. I create or load a playlist and hit shuffle. (The visibility of this shuffle is now great btw).
2. A while later, I want to switch to Radio so I hit pause on the queue and listen to radio.
3. When I want to go back to my shuffled playlist. The playlist is still in the queue but it is not paused on the position I left it in. So I end up having to guess where I was. Which is a pain!!
Hope this can be addressed.
Ben,
I recently installed this beta version as my first participation in public beta. I've been using SONOS for more than four years and sent to SONOS my first complaint about shuffle performance more than three years ago. Personally, I'm pretty pleased with the shuffle enhancement. Operation is not fully intuitive, but it's pretty good and intuitiveness is helped a lot by the visibility of the shuffled order in the queue. Thank you for getting this done.
One further revision that I suggest is that functionality of the key to advance to the next track now needs to be changed to advance to the next track in the queue, regardless of whether it is a shuffled queue or a non-shuffled queue. Right now, when the "shuffle" mode is selected, when one attempts to advance to the next track, play skips to a pseudo-random location in the queue that looks like a residual response of the old shuffle program. Seems to me it should now advance to the next track displayed in the queue, whether that is a shuffled queue or a non-shuffled queue. It looks like the old shuffle program feature is messing up the new shuffle feature.
I've also submitted this suggestion via your beta feedback page.
I recently installed this beta version as my first participation in public beta. I've been using SONOS for more than four years and sent to SONOS my first complaint about shuffle performance more than three years ago. Personally, I'm pretty pleased with the shuffle enhancement. Operation is not fully intuitive, but it's pretty good and intuitiveness is helped a lot by the visibility of the shuffled order in the queue. Thank you for getting this done.
One further revision that I suggest is that functionality of the key to advance to the next track now needs to be changed to advance to the next track in the queue, regardless of whether it is a shuffled queue or a non-shuffled queue. Right now, when the "shuffle" mode is selected, when one attempts to advance to the next track, play skips to a pseudo-random location in the queue that looks like a residual response of the old shuffle program. Seems to me it should now advance to the next track displayed in the queue, whether that is a shuffled queue or a non-shuffled queue. It looks like the old shuffle program feature is messing up the new shuffle feature.
I've also submitted this suggestion via your beta feedback page.
Userlevel 1
I recently installed this beta version as my first participation in public beta. I've been using SONOS for more than four years and sent to SONOS my first complaint about shuffle performance more than three years ago. Personally, I'm pretty pleased with the shuffle enhancement. Operation is not fully intuitive, but it's pretty good and intuitiveness is helped a lot by the visibility of the shuffled order in the queue. Thank you for getting this done.
One further revision that I suggest is that functionality of the key to advance to the next track now needs to be changed to advance to the next track in the queue, regardless of whether it is a shuffled queue or a non-shuffled queue. Right now, when the "shuffle" mode is selected, when one attempts to advance to the next track, play skips to a pseudo-random location in the queue that looks like a residual response of the old shuffle program. Seems to me it should now advance to the next track displayed in the queue, whether that is a shuffled queue or a non-shuffled queue. It looks like the old shuffle program feature is messing up the new shuffle feature.
I've also submitted this suggestion via your beta feedback page.
Thanks John! Will look into this.
I recently installed this beta version as my first participation in public beta. I've been using SONOS for more than four years and sent to SONOS my first complaint about shuffle performance more than three years ago. Personally, I'm pretty pleased with the shuffle enhancement. Operation is not fully intuitive, but it's pretty good and intuitiveness is helped a lot by the visibility of the shuffled order in the queue. Thank you for getting this done.
One further revision that I suggest is that functionality of the key to advance to the next track now needs to be changed to advance to the next track in the queue, regardless of whether it is a shuffled queue or a non-shuffled queue. Right now, when the "shuffle" mode is selected, when one attempts to advance to the next track, play skips to a pseudo-random location in the queue that looks like a residual response of the old shuffle program. Seems to me it should now advance to the next track displayed in the queue, whether that is a shuffled queue or a non-shuffled queue. It looks like the old shuffle program feature is messing up the new shuffle feature.
I've also submitted this suggestion via your beta feedback page.
Hi John,
I am on beta as well and can't reproduce this...? I am using the Sonos Controller on Windows and when I click the advance track button it does just advance to the next track in the queue whether I am listening to shuffled list or not.
Stuart
I recently installed this beta version as my first participation in public beta. I've been using SONOS for more than four years and sent to SONOS my first complaint about shuffle performance more than three years ago. Personally, I'm pretty pleased with the shuffle enhancement. Operation is not fully intuitive, but it's pretty good and intuitiveness is helped a lot by the visibility of the shuffled order in the queue. Thank you for getting this done.
One further revision that I suggest is that functionality of the key to advance to the next track now needs to be changed to advance to the next track in the queue, regardless of whether it is a shuffled queue or a non-shuffled queue. Right now, when the "shuffle" mode is selected, when one attempts to advance to the next track, play skips to a pseudo-random location in the queue that looks like a residual response of the old shuffle program. Seems to me it should now advance to the next track displayed in the queue, whether that is a shuffled queue or a non-shuffled queue. It looks like the old shuffle program feature is messing up the new shuffle feature.
I've also submitted this suggestion via your beta feedback page.
Stuart and Ben,
I have gone back again to check this, and for some reason I also cannot reproduce that response. It seemIt seems to work now exactly as I suggested it should. Maybe I was misinterpreting what I was seeing. It seemIt seems to work now exactly as I suggested it should. Sorry for my confusion, and thanks again for the improvement.
Im seeing no difference in behaviour on the new 5.4 beta for windows.
Clicking the shuffle button doesn't re-arrange the queue in any way.
i am loading a Spotify playlist into the play queue.
Clicking the shuffle button doesn't re-arrange the queue in any way.
i am loading a Spotify playlist into the play queue.
Clicking the shuffle button doesn't re-arrange the queue in any way.
i am loading a Spotify playlist into the play queue.
Hi Jay,
You have start the playback and then click on the shuffle button. You can immediately see the order changes.
Also, If you keep toggling the switch you can see how the sort order changes every time.
Let us know if this works for you.
Clicking the shuffle button doesn't re-arrange the queue in any way.
i am loading a Spotify playlist into the play queue.
Makes sense, but that doesn't happen for me i'm afraid.
Running Sonos Controller for Windows, Version 5.4, Build 29489160.
I added the Spotify playlist to the queue, pressed play and the queue was not shuffled. Each time I press the button the Next song changes but the queue remains static.
Clicking the shuffle button doesn't re-arrange the queue in any way.
i am loading a Spotify playlist into the play queue.
I just downloaded the 5.4 beta and I don't see the queue in the shuffled order. I see the song title under next on the now playing screen, but the queue does not show that as next when I look there. This is for a queue loaded from Amazon. - Android Controller
Clicking the shuffle button doesn't re-arrange the queue in any way.
i am loading a Spotify playlist into the play queue.
Quick snapshot from my WIndows controller. Watch Title, Next Title and the queue order when i toggle the shuffle button.
Clicking the shuffle button doesn't re-arrange the queue in any way.
i am loading a Spotify playlist into the play queue.
I got mine working I had to download the release from the sonos beta site and then perform the update once I installed it on my phone. Now the queue matches the order of the songs. YAY!!
Userlevel 2
I apologize for not reading all prior comments to see if this is already addressed.
I would love to be able to have a full "Music Library" shuffle. Searching for this, and for the shuffle feature in Sonos in general, is what brought me to this page.
My music library is too large for a single queue. I know a lot of people wouldn't want repeated tracks until all have played, but for this feature I personally would not care, realizing there may be restrictions. I have songs I've never listened to in my library and I just know I am never going to take the time to browse tens of thousands of tracks to find ones I've never heard to build a queue of hundreds I can play. Years ago shuffle is what introduced me to some of my still-favorites I never knew existed. I like that. A lot.
I would love to be able to have a full "Music Library" shuffle. Searching for this, and for the shuffle feature in Sonos in general, is what brought me to this page.
My music library is too large for a single queue. I know a lot of people wouldn't want repeated tracks until all have played, but for this feature I personally would not care, realizing there may be restrictions. I have songs I've never listened to in my library and I just know I am never going to take the time to browse tens of thousands of tracks to find ones I've never heard to build a queue of hundreds I can play. Years ago shuffle is what introduced me to some of my still-favorites I never knew existed. I like that. A lot.
I would love to be able to have a full "Music Library" shuffle. Searching for this, and for the shuffle feature in Sonos in general, is what brought me to this page.
My music library is too large for a single queue. I know a lot of people wouldn't want repeated tracks until all have played, but for this feature I personally would not care, realizing there may be restrictions. I have songs I've never listened to in my library and I just know I am never going to take the time to browse tens of thousands of tracks to find ones I've never heard to build a queue of hundreds I can play. Years ago shuffle is what introduced me to some of my still-favorites I never knew existed. I like that. A lot.
I see your point because I have the same issue. I don't know all the song titles in all the albums, so I'm missing out on loads of hidden gems. Playing the whole library at random and when something special turns up hit Add to Queue would be nice. Just for when I feel like it.
I would like to just put in my thoughts on the shuffle play mode that I have noticed. I have a few play lists. Some from my own music library on my home network and some from Spotify. In both cases, I see the same thing happen....two different songs from the same artist will play back to back. The songs can be close together in the queue (even one before/after the other) or they can be apart (i.e. added at different times). It does not happen all the time, but I do notice it frequently. I am not interested in the "Double Play" mode and would prefer that not happen.
I know that it is impossible to satisfy everyone's shuffle needs. I think this is where options and settings would be quite useful. But I do see this going overboard and making the software clunky. To be honest, I have used so many different MP3 players over the decades. I have not come across one that had a shuffle mode that was exactly what I wanted, so I understand if this does not happen...just wanted to put this out there.
I know that it is impossible to satisfy everyone's shuffle needs. I think this is where options and settings would be quite useful. But I do see this going overboard and making the software clunky. To be honest, I have used so many different MP3 players over the decades. I have not come across one that had a shuffle mode that was exactly what I wanted, so I understand if this does not happen...just wanted to put this out there.
I would like to be able to shuffle songs using a streaming music service in the Sonos app while bypassing the queue entirely. Right now, if I want to shuffle an rdio playlist, I need to add all the songs to the queue and then shuffle. Why can't I simply play the playlist in shuffle mode, skipping an extra step? Same with albums and artists. I would like to be able to shuffle all songs by an artist without first manually adding all of that artist's songs to the queue.
Userlevel 6
+11
I know that it is impossible to satisfy everyone's shuffle needs. I think this is where options and settings would be quite useful. But I do see this going overboard and making the software clunky. To be honest, I have used so many different MP3 players over the decades. I have not come across one that had a shuffle mode that was exactly what I wanted, so I understand if this does not happen...just wanted to put this out there.
I have noticed this also
So there we have it, folks. Version 5.4 has left Beta and what has happened with the Shuffle function? Right, as usual nothing at all besides a new look. Now one can see the upcoming queue which has the same issues as before because the algorithm in use hasn't changed a single bit. The only thing the new view does it rub more salt into the Shuffle-wound.
But then I suppose that's what it's all about at Sonos, don't listen to customers and when they moan give standard answers and do some design tweaks. Afterall, design is way more important then functionality.
Sorry for this rant people, I guess I'm a bit frustrated. Anyway, since all my music sits on a ReadyNAS I'm going to figure out if there's anotherway of playing it through my Sonos speakers, randomly of course.
In the mean time I scrapped my plans for a Sub and two Play 3's for DD 5.1, because it's surrogate anyway and I don't want yet another piece of equipment like a switch to control in between. No new Sonos hardware anymore. Disappointed in this company, that's what me is like.
But then I suppose that's what it's all about at Sonos, don't listen to customers and when they moan give standard answers and do some design tweaks. Afterall, design is way more important then functionality.
Sorry for this rant people, I guess I'm a bit frustrated. Anyway, since all my music sits on a ReadyNAS I'm going to figure out if there's anotherway of playing it through my Sonos speakers, randomly of course.
In the mean time I scrapped my plans for a Sub and two Play 3's for DD 5.1, because it's surrogate anyway and I don't want yet another piece of equipment like a switch to control in between. No new Sonos hardware anymore. Disappointed in this company, that's what me is like.
But then I suppose that's what it's all about at Sonos, don't listen to customers and when they moan give standard answers and do some design tweaks. Afterall, design is way more important then functionality.
Sorry for this rant people, I guess I'm a bit frustrated. Anyway, since all my music sits on a ReadyNAS I'm going to figure out if there's anotherway of playing it through my Sonos speakers, randomly of course.
In the mean time I scrapped my plans for a Sub and two Play 3's for DD 5.1, because it's surrogate anyway and I don't want yet another piece of equipment like a switch to control in between. No new Sonos hardware anymore. Disappointed in this company, that's what me is like.
Actually on my Sonos, the random / shuffle play list shows up. That is, I add a playlist to the queue and the queue shows the order of my playlist. I click on the shuffle button and the playlist now shows a different order....the play order after the songs have been shuffled. If I unclick the shuffle mode, the playlist goes back to the original playlist order. To me, this looks like it is working.
Userlevel 7
+22
I'm not sure what you are talking about Herman. With 5.4 every time I unselect and select shuffle it randomly shuffles everything. Also the queue shows the actual shuffled (vs. previously randomly skipping around the unsorted queue).
A very large rant for something that appears they have done. What really is your issue?
If your not seeing this have you gone in your controller ... help and made sure you are running 5.4. Because it is all there!
Userlevel 7
+22
But then I suppose that's what it's all about at Sonos, don't listen to customers and when they moan give standard answers and do some design tweaks. Afterall, design is way more important then functionality.
Sorry for this rant people, I guess I'm a bit frustrated. Anyway, since all my music sits on a ReadyNAS I'm going to figure out if there's anotherway of playing it through my Sonos speakers, randomly of course.
In the mean time I scrapped my plans for a Sub and two Play 3's for DD 5.1, because it's surrogate anyway and I don't want yet another piece of equipment like a switch to control in between. No new Sonos hardware anymore. Disappointed in this company, that's what me is like.
yes - I don't understand the complaint and rant.
But then I suppose that's what it's all about at Sonos, don't listen to customers and when they moan give standard answers and do some design tweaks. Afterall, design is way more important then functionality.
Sorry for this rant people, I guess I'm a bit frustrated. Anyway, since all my music sits on a ReadyNAS I'm going to figure out if there's anotherway of playing it through my Sonos speakers, randomly of course.
In the mean time I scrapped my plans for a Sub and two Play 3's for DD 5.1, because it's surrogate anyway and I don't want yet another piece of equipment like a switch to control in between. No new Sonos hardware anymore. Disappointed in this company, that's what me is like.
Yes toram, I know that it works this way. However, if you try this over a couple of months you'll notice that the shuffled order is the same each and every time. Do it again and reshuffle, the same reshuffled lists. Same songs in the queue while most songs in the playlist are completely ignored.
Which is what got the whole shuffle issue started, put shuffle it the search box and you can read them for yourself. On top of that Sonos has written that the algorithm hasn't changed. YMMV.
I haven't checked it out repeatedly...I only updated my Sonos environment yesterday. I will keep shuffling and reshuffling to see how it shows up. I have short lists and I have long lists. Will see how things shuffle.
Userlevel 7
+22
But then I suppose that's what it's all about at Sonos, don't listen to customers and when they moan give standard answers and do some design tweaks. Afterall, design is way more important then functionality.
Sorry for this rant people, I guess I'm a bit frustrated. Anyway, since all my music sits on a ReadyNAS I'm going to figure out if there's anotherway of playing it through my Sonos speakers, randomly of course.
In the mean time I scrapped my plans for a Sub and two Play 3's for DD 5.1, because it's surrogate anyway and I don't want yet another piece of equipment like a switch to control in between. No new Sonos hardware anymore. Disappointed in this company, that's what me is like.
Every time I reshuffle it is completely different. Not same at all. The only thing the same is the now playing song which is always the first song.
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