That’s absolutely fascinating. And counter to the way I understood the software to work. Thanks for the followup.

I know it’s odd, and contrary to my understanding too, and had the Sonos guys baffled until they took a deep dive look at the diagnostics.  But simplistically, back in the day when all that seemed to be needed was to press two buttons on a speaker to add another speaker, I can see how doing that, to a speaker that already had the speakers in another network in its memory, might somehow bridge two networks (like a continuous daisy chain)  Now, every time I add new “new” speakers, I never know what to expect and it always seems different to the last time (if it in fact can find any speakers to add, as was my other experience on this thread).  For interest only, it was always my fear in another location where I have two holiday rentals adjacent to each other, and they used to share one internet with two Bridges (later Boosts) creating two Sonosnets, that one day a guest would somehow contaminate the separate networks, when a large group was renting both.  They never did, and I now have separate internet accounts, but a couple of occasions I’ve stayed in a different apartment to my previous stay, forgotten to reset my phone controller, and blasted music in the other apartment below!  Early days of introducing Airplay speakers when sharing the same internet across two apartments also potentially had challenges, since the guests could see all airplay enabled speakers on the common internet network!

My guess would be that the router never released the IP addresses to Sonos speakers that had since been removed from the WiFi network, or something of that nature.  Thus the router was displaying ‘ghosts’ of your speakers, and your actual, speakers, app, and diagnostic didn’t know any better. 

Did Sonos CS have you ever do a reboot of your router?

They asked me to do so which I did in one home - that led to the second nightmare in that my particular router BTSuperhub2 couldn’t see any speakers when rebuilding the network.  Hours on the phone with Sonos, switching this setting or that setting on or off. All to no avail, with everything always crashing.  Solved by digging out the router’s predecessor which could find the speakers to enable rebuilding of Sonosnet from scratch with factory reset speakers.

HOWEVER, in the other errant home, I’ve had issues with the router not being able to connect to the internet when there’s been a power outage etc.  So I was reluctant to, and resisted the instruction.  Instead, I factory reset and rebuilt upwards from the Boost upwards without resetting the router.  Easy and now works perfectly (only slight issue was the controller seeing the two new Beam Gen2s, but having to do something additional (can’t recall what now) to complete their set-up.

I’ll shortly be adding ERA speakers to all locations - hope without Sonosnet that this will not be another problem waiting to happen.

(I’m pretty au fait with most things Sonos, having been a relatively early adopter (2010) and having bought thirty or so speakers, most of which are still in use). I usually know how to solve issues of drop-puts/ set-up etc but this “ghosting” baffled me!

The S2 app these days caches the details of all speakers it has seen (so it can show the little spanner/wrench icon when they are “missing”). The app obviously cannot “see” other networks, but it sounds like this caching code is broken somewhere and caused the OPs problem by spending too much time trying to “find” these missing devices. Which makes no actual sense, if they didn’t respond to the SSDP call at startup then it should give up IMHO.

Factory resetting everything is an overkill solution, a reinstall or reset of the app should have fixed it much more quickly.

This cache is not required for a functioning system.

Thanks - this makes sense but one of the households was still on S1 (I’ve a solitary Play 5 remaining which I use for line out ) and the other S2.  Both had issues.  Both do and had been functioning when the “spanner” missing speakers occasionally appeared.  The first port of call was to reset and ultimately reinstall the apps but these just reconnected to the broken systems so some legacy  info was being carried by the Boost / speakers.  System update wasn’t the issue either since all were current.  The only apparent fix was total factory reset although as I found on the second reset (S2 properly) due to my reluctance to reset the router, the router reset was not actually required.  Best wishes 

I agree with the lag time. Everytime I open the app to change the volume, I am forced to wait a good 15 seconds before I can make any changes. Also, I have noticed that the Spotify app allows the iphone volume buttons to work when the phone is asleep-- obviously this only works when I am using air play (so it could be an air play thing), but it would be very helpful if the volume buttons could control the currently selected room (or group) when the sonos app is opened.

The ‘lag time’ is a pretty good indicator of some sort of interference between the controller and the actual application running on the speaker. I’d be pretty strongly looking at the wifi interference FAQ, and if that didn’t help, I’d be submitting a system diagnostic within 10 minutes of experiencing this problem, and calling Sonos Support to discuss it.

There may be information included in the diagnostic that will help Sonos pinpoint the issue and help you find a solution.

When you speak directly to the phone folks, they have tools at their disposal that will allow them to give you advice specific to your Sonos system and network.

If WiFi interference is the culprit, why wouldn’t the S2 Windows Desktop suffer the same lag issues? I have no similar issues on a Wireless Laptop or hardwired Desktop in the Windows world. When I spoke with Sonos support last week, I was told they are not experiencing this S2 issue with any customers which of course is nonsense. I am going to order the Apple IPad Air 5 and test my theory that when you have a large Sonos environment, the system bogs down and you need (at least in my case) a Tablet with a fast processor and lots of Ram.

I too would look closer at interference here, as the delay is bound to be down to Sonos ‘device discovery’ by the controller device itself. 

The Sonos controller uses SSDP to initially discover the players, multicasting via UDP to 239.255.255.250:1900 and, for good measure, broadcasting to 255.255.255.255:1900. 

Thereafter communication is unicast.

My thoughts are your controller device and it’s connection to a particular access point, are where to focus your efforts and of course how your devices are connecting to the LAN too.

I have an iPad Pro (Gen 3) controller and use a Plume mesh WiFi setup (6 AP’s), but have a Sonos system (25+ devices) running parallel on SonosNet and despite its 2.4Ghz band limitation, it takes less than 10s to discover all and become ready to control/operate .. If I move the devices over to my WiFi network and ‘bridge’ the Plume access points to my WiFi 6 AX router I can get the discovery down to less than 7 seconds as the plume network is much faster than SonosNet.

These things are down to the speed that your controller can discover your last Sonos device in your setup… moving that last device (if you can discover which one it is) will begin to lessen the lag… and then continue to lessen the discovery time as much as you can.

Check your controller device for ‘MAC spoofing’ in its WiFi connection properties, move any wired devices further away from nearby access points. Try different (fixed) ‘non-overlapping’ WiFi channels and reduce the 2.4ghz band channel-width to 20Mhz only and reserve the Sonos device IP addresses in your routers DHCP reservation table - and maybe get compatible sonos devices running on your 5Ghz band via blacklisting etc; and see if those type of things begin to reduce their discovery time.  

Thank you Ken, your suggestions and time are much appreciated. Since I only understand half of what you suggested, I need to investigate. Since my first S5 device I have gone through all the Sonos trials and tribulations over 15 years (already having done most of your suggestions) and learned more about Router settings and Networking issues than I cared to. Sonos has gone from Plug N Play to “Plug n PRAY” and all I want to do is listen to Music. I don’t want to have conversations with my devices or hear weather reports. I took the Leap Of Faith in 2022 and at considerable expense upgraded my 22 devices from Play 5 to Five, Play 1 to ERA 100, Beam to Arc, and so on just to get on the S2 platform for improved performance and future compatibility.  I have the latest higher Orbi with WiFi 6 and only (2) ERA 100 and a Move on Wi-Fi, everything else is hardwired. No Sonos Net and no 2.4 band and I have never had such slow performance on any Samsung/Lenovo Tablet or Phone with S1 as I do now. If interference is the culprit then I should expect the same poor performance on the new IPad Air (gen 5) and back to square one.

UPDATE: It is with mixed feelings I’m happy to have found a resolution to my S2 App lagging issues. I just purchased a new iPad Air 5 and the performance difference from my 1 year old Lenovo & Samsung Tablets is Night & Day. This confirms as I suspected it had nothing to do with Wi-Fi inference, Router type, Router Settings, with or without Sonos Net, hard wiring and so on. I take serious issue with Sonos that I should have to upgrade to an expensive controller to get satisfactory performance. Nowhere have I ever read from Sonos that as you add more and more devices (up to 32 indeed!) you need more horse power in the controller. This explains why the Desktop Windows software runs smoothly on my Laptop (Wi-Fi) or Desktop (hardwired) lots of processing power in these controllers. I don’t have the time or inclination to test a comparable Samsung S8 Tablet to the iPad Air 5 to see if the performance would be the same. If they are, then this would confirm that Android Apps run as smoothly as Apple and indeed you need an expensive Tablet either way.  If they don’t, again shame on Sonos for not making it clear to customers that you will get better performance from Apple devices. My goal here is to help others experiencing the same frustration I was after updating many devices to S2, investing a lot of money in my current 26 devices only to find out I need to spend more money on a Tablet to get them to work properly.

I would guess for an iPhone or iPad/iPad Pro with 26 Sonos network devices to respond to the multicast packets for ‘device discovery’, we’re probably talking about 7 seconds from App launch and probably 2 or 3 seconds when launching the app from a background state.

I don’t mind the wait on my older controller devices and if any devices are not discovered, then in my own past experience, that’s usually been down to local network conditions - which of course can change quite often in some circumstances, like being located next to several neighbouring properties which may auto-change their WiFi settings on router startup, or update etc.

I find the lag time is most frustrating when you want to quickly stop or turn down the volume…

I'll quickly get the next offer for the latest speaker though!

Right now why would I buy another speaker, I'm more likely to o go elsewhere completely…

My net promotor score is 4/10 for recommending Sonia right now....

In the world of smart phones and computers the lag  is a big issue…

Come in Sonos give us some hope!

Same - very frustrating!

It’s usually the SSDP ‘multicast’ device discovery of each and every Sonos device across a subnet by the controller device that causes the delay/responsiveness issue, so maybe try to reduce any wired/wireless network interference and maybe reserve device IP addresses in the routers DHCP reservation table. It should not take any longer than 10s (that’s just a ball-park figure) to be fully up and running with any Sonos system when opening the App from a fully closed state, at least that’s been my own personal experience in the recent past. 

An SSDP scan is three seconds per the RFC. It then should take no more than a couple more seconds to obtain the Zone topology and music service list then subscribe to the events on all the speakers, which is enough for the app to be up and running.

Most common reason for slow startup is a crap router/local network. Occasionally one device can be a pain and super slow in response, a reboot of it will fix that. You can see this in the xml logs (on PC).

Not a very helpful response.  

I manage to get things up and running these days around the 10s mark (give or take). here’s a .gif (animation) I created a few seconds ago opening the iPad Sonos App from a fully closed state, that’s with 29 Sonos devices and numerous music services installed. The ‘My Sonos’ tab has no space to add any further items - so it’s all perhaps pushing a ‘worst case’ scenario. 

The App is ready to go when the volume control on the ‘now playing’ takes up its correct position (just as a reference point).

This is whilst running all on an 802.11ac WiFi mesh system.

If I open the App from a background state instead, then it’s a few seconds only.

Sorry about the quality, but there’s a 5MB upload limit here - but hopefully the repeating animation above shows you the kind of discovery speed I manage to get. I’m quite happy with that level of responsiveness. As I say it’s a lot less waiting time if the App is just brought forward from a background state.

edit: (animation now attached instead - as it was a bit of an eye-sore) … Ken

@vram,

If your Sonos App is perhaps taking much longer to discover all your devices than the example shown in the uploaded animation, then it’s ‘highly likely’ a network/router issue, as @controlav mentions. It’s only ever as good as the very last Sonos device to report back - so perhaps focus on that as your starting point.

Hello, 
I had latency problems on S2 with my Sonos system (Mesh network, with a sonos boost).
I changed channel 1 to 6 and the latencies disappeared.
Thanks for the info :) 

This looks like an old thread but the problem still exists for me.  Ive got 15 zones containing 22 devices.  On an Orbit mesh network in a city environment.  When I look at available Wifi networks there are between 19-23 available.  I know I have interference.  That is what I figure is causing my App Launch to App Usable massive delay.  As others have pointed out, opening the app and waiting 20-40 seconds for it to become responsive is VERY long especially if the music came on loud or in a wrong zone…  Airplay is rough as well.  Trying to play a high resolution (TV or QoBuz) source via airplay ALWAYS causes dropouts.  Trying to play same high resolution sources to ALL ZONES also causes constant dropouts.  My Orbi network is back haul connected via Ethernet and is probably one generation old (RBR50 Router) so still very capable.  I have called in to Sonos support countless times and if I get someone (usually during business hours) that isn't worthless, we kind of arrive at the fact that I have a LOT of interference on all channels.  This is something I have not been able to figure out how to get around.  My ultimate conclusion is all the delay in the app becoming functional after being initially opened is attributable to either 1, all the local interference OR 2, the fact that I’m on a MESH network.  Not sure if SONOS likes Mesh or if there is some configuration I could manage that would improve the network’s performance.  Right now though, using the Sonos app is horrible experience and I try to manage everything through Alexa - which is much more responsive than the native SONIOS app.  .  

Sonos works well with the chosen Home WiFi mesh setup here, which is Plume WiFi. I also use a wired backhaul, but I don’t have lots of ‘other’ WiFi networks nearby to cause the issues you’re encountering.

I’m not personally familiar with the Netgear Orbi mesh system, but my thoughts are that a good WiFi mesh system should be avoiding the other nearby networks and providing a good delivery of wireless communication, especially for the shorter range 5Ghz band, which most Sonos products will use these days (except Sonos Home Theatre devices, which I guess could be wired to a Switch off the Primary Orbi Hub)

Anyhow I have a similar amount of devices and zones and the Sonos App opening time is between 7-10 seconds from its fully closed state, that’s on an iPad Pro controller.

Maybe look at blacklisting your compatible Sonos products to force them to use the 5Ghz band and wire any others that use the 2.4Ghz band to a Switch linked to the Primary hub and see if that improves device discovery/response times and see if you can then get the App up and running at least within half the time it takes now.

Ken. Thanks for your response. I checked and all my wifi components are on 5G so would the blacklisting help?  My guess is that is to keep it off the 2.4 band. I do think it’s all about interference because I still use the matrix that Sonos says isn’t used any longer. The matrix does show a lot of noise / interference. Also, the poor performance with high resolution sources is troubling along with the inability to really do airplay consistently without a lot of errors. Any further advise would be awesome because I am figuring the blacklisting would only insure 5ghz which all are already on 

I don’t see any information in the Sonos matrix as I’m using the Plume WiFi - do you have a Sonos device wired to the LAN then and are you using SonosNet at the moment?