I’ve been unable to save my Queue to a Sonos Playlist for a little while - I believe I may be at the limit of Playlist track capacity?
I just had a Chat with Sonos and they ‘said’ and recommended a few things that were contrary to my understanding.
Here’s the transcript - with a couple of questions from me in red where it doesn’t align with my understanding..
sjw (25/08/2022, 11:10:50): Help with saving Playlists
Sonos Digital Assistant (25/08/2022, 11:10:59): Thanks, I'm transferring you to a live rep now.
Agent (25/08/2022, 11:11:16): Hello, my name is Agent (mod edit). Your case has been reassigned to me and I'll be happy to assist from here. Please allow me a moment to review your ticket so we can pick up where you left off. In the meantime, feel free to provide me with any additional details you think might be helpful.
sjw (25/08/2022, 11:11:30): 541881474 has been submitted.
sjw (25/08/2022, 11:12:56): When I try to save a Sonos Playlist I get an error:
"Sonos doesn't have enough free space left to save the queue. Remove old saved playlists or queues in other rooms, and try again."
sjw (25/08/2022, 11:14:03): Can you tell me the cause of this - and the limits I should work within please?
I thought I could have up to 1000 playlists. I have much less than that so I assume there's also a limit of number of tracks in them too?
Agent (25/08/2022, 11:14:33): Hello there, yes there are some limitations with the playlists. First disconnect the Sonos Connect from the Ethernet cable and connect the Ethernet into the Boost.
sjw (25/08/2022, 11:15:50): That's not too easy at the moment (it's attached to a wall) - but what difference will it make?
Agent (25/08/2022, 11:16:48): The Connect has a lower memory then other Sonos devices, eventually you can Ethernet connect a newer Sonos device with a bigger memory like the Play 5 gen 2 if wiring the Boost will not help.
sjw (25/08/2022, 11:17:36): OK - but aren't they stored in all of the devices - so the limit will still be the others?
Agent (25/08/2022, 11:17:54): The playlists are stored in the Sonos device's internal memory, usually the one that's Ethernet connected will store that information. Is this correct - my understanding is that they’re stored in all of the Speakers, not the one that’s connected to ethernet.
sjw (25/08/2022, 11:19:00): Really? I thought it was in all of them? What if I wasn't on Sonosnet for example?
Agent (25/08/2022, 11:19:39): You can test with Ethernet connecting just the Boost ( like it should be - at the moment the Boost is not Ethernet connected so it does not do anything) ? then test again with trying to create playlists. If it will do the same try to also connect a Play 5 gen 2 and test again.
sjw (25/08/2022, 11:20:44): Are you saying the BOOST needs to be on ethernet for it to anything? I thought it just needed to be within range of other speakers to be a part of the matrix?
Agent (25/08/2022, 11:21:28): The limitation for the Sonos playlists is 10k track limit (total for all playlists) depending on the metadata and directory structure you can have less then that.
Agent (25/08/2022, 11:22:43): No, the Sonos Boost needs to be Ethernet connected.
sjw (25/08/2022, 11:24:07): Are you 100% sure as I was advised to buy it to help with connections and to add it between other devices. You are saying a BOOST not on ethernet does nothing at all?
Agent (25/08/2022, 11:24:48): To add it wired yes, the Boost needs to be Ethernet connected at all times. Is this true - I thought a BOOST could help as a part of Sonosnet ‘WiFi’ and not only when cabled up? That’s often the point and reason to get a BOOST?
sjw (25/08/2022, 11:26:29): OK - I'll look at seeing if I can re-arrange somehow.
Can you tell me my current usage stats for tracks & playlists etc.
Agent (25/08/2022, 11:29:17): You have about 10.000 tracks added to your music library.
sjw (25/08/2022, 11:30:07): Can how many tracks are contained within Playlists? You mention the limit is 10000?
Agent (25/08/2022, 11:34:03): No, I'm not able to see that, since it's an S1 system, but you can try to test with the Boost wired and create more playlists. I’m surprised Sonos agents can’t see the number of tracks within Playlists - at least to Troubleshoot an issue of exceeding the 10000 limit that was mentioned.
Agent (25/08/2022, 11:37:55): Let me know if you want to do the change now or at a later time.
sjw (25/08/2022, 11:38:55): I'm doing it now.
sjw (25/08/2022, 11:41:13): 1750355581 submitted.
As expected the error is the same. I believe this is because all information is stored on all players. Are you sure it's only ethernet connected ones?
Agent (25/08/2022, 11:44:52): Once done try again to save a new playlist and submit a new diagnostic.
sjw (25/08/2022, 11:47:48): I just rebooted and the BOOST is now the root bridge. 740803918 submitted.
Same error though, I can't save a queue to a Playlist.
sjw (25/08/2022, 11:52:36): Connect is off. 324775441 submitted.
sjw (25/08/2022, 11:52:44): Error is still the same.
Agent (25/08/2022, 11:59:06): In that case the shared memory that is available for the playlists is full, the only option is to delete older playlists to make room for new ones.
sjw (25/08/2022, 12:00:35): Which I would expect - my understanding is the limits are defined by all supported hardware storage etc. - not just the devices switched on at the time? Is this correct? Surely the software needs to cope with devices that ‘could’ be added, not the ones that happen to be connected at the time?
You aren't able to tell me how many tracks I have in my Playlists though?
Agent (25/08/2022, 12:14:59): The playlists limitations are still there, however you can upgrade all the S1 devices to S2 minus the Connect and the Play 5 gen 1 that are not S2 compatible. I don't see the playlists tracks size, what I can see is that for the Connect and the Play 5 gen 1 the memory is over 99% full. The other newer devices don't have that memory problem.
sjw (25/08/2022, 12:17:32): If I upgrade to S2 I assume I still will not be able to save the Playlists though - even with all the devices with more storage available? i.e. the limit hasn't changed.
Agent (25/08/2022, 12:18:49): You can try to upgrade if you want, if not you can simply delete playlists and create new ones.
sjw (25/08/2022, 12:21:17): These Playlists have been created over many years, it's not a simple case of deleting and re-creating. The whole reason I have not switched to S2 is that the S1 is then reset and the Playlists are lost from it.
Agent (25/08/2022, 12:22:50): If you will factory reset all your Sonos devices then yes, everything will be lost, if you will migrate the compatible devices to S2 then the ones that will remain on S1 will still have the data there just in case. Is this true? I was sure that the S1 system is reset after the others are changed to S2?
sjw (25/08/2022, 12:23:55): Are you sure - I'm led to believe that after the update, the remaining devices are reset?
Agent (25/08/2022, 12:25:10): If you will power them off they will not get the factory reset.
sjw (25/08/2022, 12:26:18): And then I can carry on using it as a separate S1 system just as it currently is? No issue with controller or household etc.?
Agent (25/08/2022, 12:27:56): No, you will end up with 2 Sonos apps, the S1 and the S2. From what I can see you already have a Sonos Roam on S2 so you can add the devices there.
sjw (25/08/2022, 12:30:37): If I add the devices there they will not have the Playlists I want. If I went the S2 route, I would do the upgrade you advise (keeping the Playlists) and reset the Roam and add it.
I understand about 2 Apps - I need to be sure that powering off the non-S2 compatible speakers during the S2 update will leave them as a standalone S1 system, controlled by the S1 App. And the S2 speakers will have the same Playlists as the S1 does now.
Agent (25/08/2022, 12:35:21): Yes, if everything will go smoothly then powering off the 2 legacy devices will not be a problem, they will not get a factory reset. The S2 compatible speakers should carry on the information they have in the S2 ( if they will not get a factory reset). Is this true - simply powering off the S1 speakers and updating the others to S2 will then leave the S1 with the information also in the S2? S1 Controller etc. works fine?
sjw (25/08/2022, 12:37:14): OK, I'll take a look at that option.
sjw (25/08/2022, 12:50:20): OK, thanks Agent, have a great day.
Thoughts anyone?
Moderator Note: Modified in accordance with the Community Code of Conduct.