Ability to play 24bit/96 files (like the competition: slimdevices transporter)
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Large +1 for me.
It is the only reason I'm not expanding my Sonos-system but will look into other solutions.
It is not only a question of high-end.
I want to have all my music everywhere available (isn't that where Sonos was designed for?).
I will have a high-end streamer for my dedicated listening environment, but for all other places Sonos is perfect.
So please Sonos, add this quickly or lose a customer.
(An otherwise happy S5 owner).
It is the only reason I'm not expanding my Sonos-system but will look into other solutions.
It is not only a question of high-end.
I want to have all my music everywhere available (isn't that where Sonos was designed for?).
I will have a high-end streamer for my dedicated listening environment, but for all other places Sonos is perfect.
So please Sonos, add this quickly or lose a customer.
(An otherwise happy S5 owner).
It is the only reason I'm not expanding my Sonos-system but will look into other solutions.
It is not only a question of high-end.
I want to have all my music everywhere available (isn't that where Sonos was designed for?).
I will have a high-end streamer for my dedicated listening environment, but for all other places Sonos is perfect.
So please Sonos, add this quickly or lose a customer.
(An otherwise happy S5 owner).
Good point well made!
If you have bought some hi-res music why should you have to down-sample it to play it on Sonos and keep the hi-res file as a duplicate for playing on other devices?
If you have bought some hi-res music why should you have to down-sample it to play it on Sonos and keep the hi-res file as a duplicate for playing on other devices?
Indeed.
I don't want to recode all my music.
I'm a member of the B&W music club, and all their new releases are available in the high res format.
Hi,
Im in search for a capable newtwork player and stumble upon Sonos. I found out that it does not support 24/96 wich makes it a "no buy" for me.
I have to much 24/96 material to ignore.
It's a pitty because the control-part is important to me and Sonos solutions seems rather nice, especially the Ipad and Android apps.
I will probably have to turn to a computer solution to get what I want: An bitcorrect network transport supporting 24/96, controlled with an Ipad or other tablet.
Im in search for a capable newtwork player and stumble upon Sonos. I found out that it does not support 24/96 wich makes it a "no buy" for me.
I have to much 24/96 material to ignore.
It's a pitty because the control-part is important to me and Sonos solutions seems rather nice, especially the Ipad and Android apps.
I will probably have to turn to a computer solution to get what I want: An bitcorrect network transport supporting 24/96, controlled with an Ipad or other tablet.
has there even been some feedback on this from Sonos?
I can't believe I'm reading this thread. Seriously.
I will definitely hold off on buying a Sonos system for my house (or shop elsewhere) until they can get this major problem resolved.
I will definitely hold off on buying a Sonos system for my house (or shop elsewhere) until they can get this major problem resolved.
As an otherwise happy Sonos owner all I can presume is that the hardware is seriously flawed with regard to hi-res propagation.
This thread has been going for around three and a half years and, apart from the moderators deeply defending the kit, there has been no response from Sonos (that I am aware of).
In the intervening period many competitors have released products that support 24/96 or 24/192 and Sonos have been left standing still.
As I said in my opening para, all I can presume is that it's a hardware problem. Sonos have been pretty good in releasing software updates and including suggestions made on this forum. For them not to have 'gone hi-res' points to something much more fundamental.
It's such a shame they decline to ever comment on this. I for one, would be first in the queue to buy a 'ZP90HD' should it ever be released, and I don't think I'm alone in this. As more and more content becomes available in hi-res (e.g. Radiohead's new album in 24-bit on 7digital today) so Sonos will find themselves isolated unless they catch up.
COME ON SONOS!
This thread has been going for around three and a half years and, apart from the moderators deeply defending the kit, there has been no response from Sonos (that I am aware of).
In the intervening period many competitors have released products that support 24/96 or 24/192 and Sonos have been left standing still.
As I said in my opening para, all I can presume is that it's a hardware problem. Sonos have been pretty good in releasing software updates and including suggestions made on this forum. For them not to have 'gone hi-res' points to something much more fundamental.
It's such a shame they decline to ever comment on this. I for one, would be first in the queue to buy a 'ZP90HD' should it ever be released, and I don't think I'm alone in this. As more and more content becomes available in hi-res (e.g. Radiohead's new album in 24-bit on 7digital today) so Sonos will find themselves isolated unless they catch up.
COME ON SONOS!
Oh please don't get me started. I think the bottom line is that the system as configured can't support hirez material. Also, and this is a huge part of the Sonos business model, is compatibility. If the older units can't support HiRez and Sonos brought out a unit that could then the whole house compatibility model, to some degree goes poof.. Unfortunately the only solutions right now are to use a different product for hirez play back. I'm 100% sure Sonos is looking at a solution, it's just how to implement it and keep the seamlessness of a Sonos system intact, and to not obsolete older units. I'm not sure that's possible, I think a compromise is the only way to get it to work. Maybe as mentioned before a HiRez zone player that will play all formats, 24/96 and better. A customer going in would know that this unit would be the only one that could play Hirez, the others in the house couldn't. Those that didn't care about Hirez playback wouldn't need to get the new player thay could just stick with what they have or if adding zones could just buy standard def versions. Heck this could be a new source of revenue I think a bunch of folks would upgrade at least one of their ZP's to the new higher performance versions , those that either don't care or don't want to wouldn't have to. I just wish Sonos would let us know, ie yes we are working on it, or no it'll never happen. Of course I doubt that'll happen. And lastly and I've had this argument before and with my new found spirit of moderation I'll just add that I think that HiRez support should not be looked at as a feature, but as an improvement in functionality, just as when Sonos first came out it couldn't play ALAC files. ie cross fading is a feature, hirez play back is a function.
After reading this Thread several times and doing a bit of "research" (see: http://www.head-fi.org/forum/thread/415361/24bit-vs-16bit-the-myth-exploded ) I come to the following conclusions:
1) Do it if it doesn't take resources away from other high priority projects. I am not convinced that Hi-Res files really can be discerned by most/all ears.
2) Certainly, the ability to play their Hi-Res files via Sonos without a conversion is a benefit to some...
It's hard to fathom the veiled (and not so veiled) threats of some here to abandon their Sonos system if this feature is not implemented. It's still the best whole house, multi-zone music player at any price.
This thread has been going for around three and a half years and, apart from the moderators deeply defending the kit, there has been no response from Sonos (that I am aware of).
Wrong!
Firstly, all of the user moderators on here are users first. Any opinion they give is as users. There opinion is worth no more or less than any other users in that respect. Also, there have been just as many users who are NOT moderators arguing against hires support.
Secondly, those who actually read and understand the posts properly will realise that the moderators who have posted are not against hires. At least 3 out of the 4 of us have actually stated on at least one occasion that they would like Sonos to support hires.
Anyone who interprets this differently either hasn't read all of the posts properly, or is blinded by their own biases and indignation.
What myself and some of the other people have defended Sonos for is that there are very good commercial reasons to support why they've not done this yet. These reasons are often ignored or even denied by those clamouring for this feature.
We have also defended Sonos against unreaslistic views and expectations including the view that this feature should be considered as more important than any other (without any useful evidence to suggest why) and the expectation that Sonos should make a specific comment about this feature request, when they have a policy of not commenting on future developments (a practice shared with most other vendors).
It's such a shame they decline to ever comment on this.
Thirdly, They have already commented. They have, in the past, acknowledged the feature request and said that it has been pushed into their Product Management. I believe I have even seen statements that there are no immediate plans (but that was some time ago).
Realistically, what more can they say? They can say, at any point in time, whether there are currently plans or not, but that's about it, and that information becomes outdated within a few months.
Basically until they are actively developing this, Sonos themselves won't know. Until this happens you will not get a definitive response one way or another. That's simple common sense.
It's simply unrealistic to expect a vendor, any vendor, to make definitive statements on potential future feature enhancements.
Which, in reality, is indistinguishable from "a feature".
Cheers,
Keith
Well said ErikM. My sentiments exactly.
I think Sonos have an excellent offering (and business model), but as an owner I'm concerned that it's not going anywhere.
Beugie, I'm not sure that I agree with you, but I don't think we're far apart on this.
Majik...Take no prisoners!! It's this kind of tone that I am referring to. I don't disagree with what you are saying, but I take umbrage at the way you say it. I HAVE read the posts, I DO understand, and I am NOT blinded by my own indignation.
Sonos have a business model, and customers who buy into their ethos can rightly expect product development and enhancement.
I think the ipod dock was a complete waste of development time, because *I* don't have an ipod, but I don't go on about how it shouldn't have been done. I just don't need it, but I respect that others may.
I would like hi-res though...
I think Sonos have an excellent offering (and business model), but as an owner I'm concerned that it's not going anywhere.
Beugie, I'm not sure that I agree with you, but I don't think we're far apart on this.
Majik...Take no prisoners!! It's this kind of tone that I am referring to. I don't disagree with what you are saying, but I take umbrage at the way you say it. I HAVE read the posts, I DO understand, and I am NOT blinded by my own indignation.
Sonos have a business model, and customers who buy into their ethos can rightly expect product development and enhancement.
I think the ipod dock was a complete waste of development time, because *I* don't have an ipod, but I don't go on about how it shouldn't have been done. I just don't need it, but I respect that others may.
I would like hi-res though...
Majik...Take no prisoners!! It's this kind of tone that I am referring to.
I responded in the same "tone" as you posted. Are you suggesting that you are allowed to adaopt such a tone and I am not.
I don't disagree with what you are saying, but I take umbrage at the way you say it.
And I took umbrage at the way you levelled accusations at specific users, accusations which were unnecessary and untrue.
I HAVE read the posts, I DO understand, and I am NOT blinded by my own indignation.
Explain, then, why you felt the need to single us out in your criticism.
You started this argument, not me.
Actually don't bother trying to explain as I am going to end this before the usual gang of troublemakers escalates this into a bigger argument just so they can start taking pot-shots at me. Please don't bother to continue this pointless argument as I will not respond.
Let's get back to the topic at hand:
Sonos have a business model, and customers who buy into their ethos can rightly expect product development and enhancement.
Even if that is true, there is no reasonable expectation of a specific feature request.
Like almost all commercial companies, Sonos has a limited resources for development and develops features
based on priority. Part of this priority will be driven by market demand. If they think a specific feature will drive significant sales of more equipment then you can be sure it will be given priority.
I could point at half a dozen features that Sonos doesn't yet have and glibly say that "Sonos is being left behind" because of them, but that doesn't make it true.
There's a number of people who, very reasonably would like Hires support. I have stated that I am one of them and I will repeat it again. However, I don't feel that I have the right to expect Sonos to develop this, or any other feature as a priority, if at all.
And, as ErikM says, I think there is a very real problem in creating a hires player in that the majority of people would expect to be compatible with the other components in some way (and commercial success is built on what the majority of your market wants).
I already suggested one way in which they might do this earlier in this thread. It's a way which is pragmatic, doesn't leave existing customers out in the cold, and which fits with their reported product development strategy. But if Sonos do develop something like this, don't expect them to tell you about it until they have something close to launch.
Cheers,
Keith
I think its kind of funny that the #2 posted topic here is not of interest to the manufacturer. In any case, if you gotta have hi rez, just go Squeezebox Touch or Olive. They both have Apple Apps now. Hell, my $69 media player connected to my TV will do 24/96. There are plenty of other options people! I gave up on this topic long ago, no love here. Just move on to something else.
Enjoy that new crossfader boys. Whee.....
😛
Enjoy that new crossfader boys. Whee.....
😛
Hi Majik,
just want to set the tone of this reply to "calm", so please don't think I'm attacking you. If anything I'm supporting you, hopefully.
Firstly, all of the user moderators on here are users first. Any opinion they give is as users. There opinion is worth no more or less than any other users in that respect.
I think the moderators here are in an unenviable position, one that Sonos are responsible for putting you in. I'm sure you feel that what you've said above is true, however the fact remains that for an *official* company forum, Sonos keep a VERY low profile here. Unlike many other official forums, who will generally place employees or other official representatives as moderators on their forums, Sonos don't do that, in fact they rarely respond at all, apart from in some cases of technical support.
What that means is you guys who have the word "moderator" under your usernames become, rightly or wrongly, the de facto Sonos representatives here, you clearly are in a position of authority that the rest of us aren't, so, whether you want it or not, when you guys say something people pay more attention and when you argue yay or nay on a subject people believe, again, rightly or wrongly, that you have some additional insight into the workings of the company (which I don't believe you do, correct me if I'm wrong).
So when people ask for a feature to be added and you or one of the other mods argue against it (or in one case state, quite categorically, that nobody can hear the difference between 16-bit and 24-bit audio anyway, so there's no point supporting hires, I don't think that was you though), people are going to take it as Gospel, because they have no other source from the company themselves and they have no one else to target their frustration at, so you get it.
Like I said, I think you're in a very unenviable position, you are, for all intents and purposes, representing Sonos here, because they won't represent themselves, but you have no official info to present to the rest of us and no real responsibility but you are the only conduit for people to vent at.
Furthermore it doesn't help that Sonos absolutely refuse to comment on future development at all. I understand the reasons for it and on the whole I think it's a good thing but, in a case such as this, when people are repeatedly asking for a feature to be added the stony silence from Sonos is going to make those people feel like they aren't being listened to, so once again they round on you as the only visible point of contact with the company. Even the occasional acknowledgement of "Yes, we're listening." would go some way to mollify some feelings.
I don't know what the answer is to that though but I do know one thing, I wouldn't want to be a mod here, the phrase "sacrificial lamb" springs to mind...
But you do a great job here and rarely get thanked for it, so, from me, thank you!
just want to set the tone of this reply to "calm", so please don't think I'm attacking you. If anything I'm supporting you, hopefully.
I think the moderators here are in an unenviable position, one that Sonos are responsible for putting you in. I'm sure you feel that what you've said above is true, however the fact remains that for an *official* company forum, Sonos keep a VERY low profile here. Unlike many other official forums, who will generally place employees or other official representatives as moderators on their forums, Sonos don't do that, in fact they rarely respond at all, apart from in some cases of technical support.
What that means is you guys who have the word "moderator" under your usernames become, rightly or wrongly, the de facto Sonos representatives here, you clearly are in a position of authority that the rest of us aren't, so, whether you want it or not, when you guys say something people pay more attention and when you argue yay or nay on a subject people believe, again, rightly or wrongly, that you have some additional insight into the workings of the company (which I don't believe you do, correct me if I'm wrong).
So when people ask for a feature to be added and you or one of the other mods argue against it (or in one case state, quite categorically, that nobody can hear the difference between 16-bit and 24-bit audio anyway, so there's no point supporting hires, I don't think that was you though), people are going to take it as Gospel, because they have no other source from the company themselves and they have no one else to target their frustration at, so you get it.
Like I said, I think you're in a very unenviable position, you are, for all intents and purposes, representing Sonos here, because they won't represent themselves, but you have no official info to present to the rest of us and no real responsibility but you are the only conduit for people to vent at.
Furthermore it doesn't help that Sonos absolutely refuse to comment on future development at all. I understand the reasons for it and on the whole I think it's a good thing but, in a case such as this, when people are repeatedly asking for a feature to be added the stony silence from Sonos is going to make those people feel like they aren't being listened to, so once again they round on you as the only visible point of contact with the company. Even the occasional acknowledgement of "Yes, we're listening." would go some way to mollify some feelings.
I don't know what the answer is to that though but I do know one thing, I wouldn't want to be a mod here, the phrase "sacrificial lamb" springs to mind...
But you do a great job here and rarely get thanked for it, so, from me, thank you!
whatever
What that means is you guys who have the word "moderator" under your usernames become, rightly or wrongly, the de facto Sonos representatives here, you clearly are in a position of authority that the rest of us aren't, so, whether you want it or not, when you guys say something people pay more attention and when you argue yay or nay on a subject people believe, again, rightly or wrongly, that you have some additional insight into the workings of the company (which I don't believe you do, correct me if I'm wrong).
Generally we have no more insight than other users. Certainly our point of contact is Sonos Support, not Sonos Product Development.
The problem is not that people pay attention more to what we say (which they may or may not do), but that they falsely attribute stuff to us because they are looking for a whipping boy for their frustrations or a target for their false accusations and we are the closest they can get to "official", so we get singled out for things we never actually did.
For instance, on this thread, I checked my posts and they were overwhelmingly in favour of Hires support. The only arguments that could possibly considered to be "against" it were that a) it wasn't any different from any other feature request and b) the majority of the market may not be interested in hires support.
I know that Buzz and Avee have also expressed support for hires.
So when people ask for a feature to be added and you or one of the other mods argue against it (or in one case state, quite categorically, that nobody can hear the difference between 16-bit and 24-bit audio anyway, so there's no point supporting hires, I don't think that was you though)
The closest I got to this was post #158. I'm pretty certain I have never said hires is totally inaudible to everyone in all circumstances, because I don't believe that is true.
I also don't recall any other mod stating this (although I've not checked extensively) and I would be slightly surprised if they had. On the other hand I am aware of several posts from non-moderators who have claimed this. I strongly suspect that people have falsely associated these posts with moderators for the reasons I gave above.
I don't know what the answer is to that though but I do know one thing, I wouldn't want to be a mod here, the phrase "sacrificial lamb" springs to mind...
Most people are reasonable. Occasionally someone will become unreasonable. Each of us has our own personal "anti-fan-club" who organize the occasional vendetta attack on us.
But you do a great job here and rarely get thanked for it, so, from me, thank you!
Thanks for your support!
Cheers,
Keith
Folks...I like many of you have been following this thread with both interest and hope, that at some point Sonos would provide a hint of future plans. There have been many good suggestions, such as the creation of a "premium" zone player for those willing to pay for the ability to play hi-rez where and when needed. There has also been much conjecture on why Sonos continues to remain silent on this topic, even in light of the fact that virtually every competing product out there is now supporting hi-rez, and it is clearly gaining market momentum. Some posit that backward compatibility would be a major issue, bandwith issues with the network, etc..etc. although most other wireless solutions support hi-rez w/o issue. I would suggest the following. I like many in the sonos community have 6 zones throughout my home. I take advantage of virtually every product Sonos offers, including the use of a CR100, ipod & ipad units to control them. I have an extensive library with mostly apple lossless & other hi-rez formats. I would argue that many who want Hi-rez have setups similar to mine, in that they may have multiple zones...but there is usually only one or two "critical" listening zones. For me..that's the living room, where I have a high end 2 channel "audiophile" class system. The other zones, kitchen, den, patio, dining room...are in-wall speakers & or S5's and are primarily for "background" music. I believe for that purpose, CD quality (not mp3) is sufficient..even though I admit I do have external dacs in some of the larger zone areas. BUT..for the critical area, hi-rez is a must. To get around the lack of hi-rez in Sonos..I have a secondary server (Mac) with ammara..playing thru a Benchmark Dac to my 2 channel hi-end system. Unfortunately it means I must maintain and sync multiple copies of my music and put's Sonos out of the picture..when I want to sit in the living room and do some serious dedicated listening. Not optimal to be sure...but workable. I'd love to have everything integrated under Sonos (playing thru external Dac's true..) but it appears that Sonos just will not participate..for whatever reason. For those of you who really appreciate hi-rez, have a considerable library already, and the equipment to leverage it...then a "dedicated" zone....outside of sonos..seems the only way to go for now..and the foreseeable system. That's a shame, because as a long standing audio enthusiast, I can say there are very few (if any) products that have brought me as much pure pleasure (and fun) as the Sonos family has.
Very well put Mr. O'Malley. No point really beating the beast anymore Sonos either will or won't support HiRez at some point, although, and I know Sonos doesn't comment on future plans yada yada, but it would be nice for them to say one way or the other. Of course if they say nay, they loose potential customers, if they say yea, then eveyone says When!!! Tough call.
The issue will be when someone comes out with a product that has as good a user interface, and costs in the ballpark of Sonos. How much business will it cost Sonos. I for one would bag my Sonos products right quick if there was anything that was as slick and well thought out that did HiRez, but right now there isn't, but I'll bet my left *** that someone's working on it.
The issue will be when someone comes out with a product that has as good a user interface, and costs in the ballpark of Sonos. How much business will it cost Sonos. I for one would bag my Sonos products right quick if there was anything that was as slick and well thought out that did HiRez, but right now there isn't, but I'll bet my left *** that someone's working on it.
I found some reference to this subject in the "Zp 24/96" post from 2007/8, and thought it must be high time to re-activate this discussion.
I have a growing collection of 24-bit FLAC music files, and would like to know if Sonos will support music files of this quality in the near future? If they do choose to, will current hardware be upgradeable in the future? Or, would that be too expensive or technically difficult?
With 24-bit releases becoming increasingly common, and talk of even iTunes supporting HiRes files along with the current specialist download sites, it looks as if Sonos is lagging behind in this area. All the recent audiophile media streamers (such as those from Naim, Marantz, Rotel, etc) along with PC software such as Winamp and MediaMonkey will play 24-bit.
Consumers are increasingly concerned with quality once again, now that streaming has addressed our requirements for convenience. With suitable hardware, we can at last start listening to music in better-than-CD quality; after the failures of DVD-Audio, Super Audio CD and their ilk to grow a market. I hope Sonos will continue their innovation, and take a lead here.
Simon
I have a growing collection of 24-bit FLAC music files, and would like to know if Sonos will support music files of this quality in the near future? If they do choose to, will current hardware be upgradeable in the future? Or, would that be too expensive or technically difficult?
With 24-bit releases becoming increasingly common, and talk of even iTunes supporting HiRes files along with the current specialist download sites, it looks as if Sonos is lagging behind in this area. All the recent audiophile media streamers (such as those from Naim, Marantz, Rotel, etc) along with PC software such as Winamp and MediaMonkey will play 24-bit.
Consumers are increasingly concerned with quality once again, now that streaming has addressed our requirements for convenience. With suitable hardware, we can at last start listening to music in better-than-CD quality; after the failures of DVD-Audio, Super Audio CD and their ilk to grow a market. I hope Sonos will continue their innovation, and take a lead here.
Simon
scoughlan,
I merged your post with the 'Zp 24/96' thread. I urge you to read it through. This issue has been argued strongly - on both sides.
I merged your post with the 'Zp 24/96' thread. I urge you to read it through. This issue has been argued strongly - on both sides.
failures of DVD-Audio, Super Audio CD and their ilk to grow a market
If these failed to find a market, exactly why should Sonos pay attention to this niche of a niche in a streaming market where 128 kb AAC is the norm? As has been said, ALAC and FLAC users are a small minority, and hires is a minority of that minority, whether iTunes decides to sell it or not (which is an extremely dubious and unsubstantiated rumor at this time). Besides, if you look to the newest announcements by Amazon and others, music in the cloud is coming a lot faster than hires dominance. IMHO, Sonos would be better served to watch that market, rather than a niche of a niche. YMMV.
Take the time to listen to some hires music, or even an old fashion CD and you might just find the music sounds better - to simplify the argument. To incorporate 24-bit support would be relatively easy and should not significantly increase price. If (my affordable) Squeezebox from 8 years ago can play these files, I'm sure Sonos can manage it. If users are happy with their low-bit files, played through junky DACs and cheap headphones, it is usually because they have never had the opportunity to actually hear music as it should sound.
Always strikes me as a bit strange for an issue to become so contentious when a simple poll might actually show who does and who does not want it?
Leave it running for 6-8 months as a sticky and see what develops?
Leave it running for 6-8 months as a sticky and see what develops?
It's been running for over a year: http://forums.sonos.com/showthread.php?t=14984
http://forums.sonos.com/showthread.php?t=14984&highlight=HiRes
By the way, what "developed" is that dozens of sock puppets registered just to vote in favor of HiRez. Check the usernames in favor of HiRez under the voting details, many have 1 post (or less).
By the way, what "developed" is that dozens of sock puppets registered just to vote in favor of HiRez. Check the usernames in favor of HiRez under the voting details, many have 1 post (or less).
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