Question

Why can't I just use you like any other speakers?



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I'll stop contributing to it by simply saying that I find my Sonos setup to be my most enjoyable tech purchase in many many years.
+1 to that and only because it has me listening to a lot more excellent sounding music, owned and net streamed, than at any time before I bought Sonos. Nothing to do with "pride of ownership" - much of the hifi kit I went through for the 15 years before Sonos contained components that had much more of that psychological factor than what Sonos offers.

With a combination of Connect/Connect Amp/Play Units/Sub, I still have to come across any system that will meet my needs better than what Sonos does, at any price point. I don't care for TV beyond a bare minimum, so I can't speak to TV centric applications.
@jdag wish I could say the same. My family struggles with the many limitations.

The saving grace is that I am able to use them as Squeezebox zones because LMS has the ability to take control of Sonos.

Currently using Roon to play to my Sonos amps via Roon's Squeezebox implementation and a SB Touch.


Sounds like quite a limitation of Roon that it doesn't natively support the (by far) leading multiroom wireless system. But then I'm sure you are over on their forum, complaining loudly every day about this senseless limitation, right?

BTW, I give Roon about as much chance of success as the Squeezeboxes. They'll be a niche player, at best, as the rest of the world moves to the online services, which Sonos handles better than anyone, and already has all the services that will survive the shakeout. They'll have to cater to the audiophools, a tiny and very fickle market.
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+1 to that and only because it has me listening to a lot more excellent sounding music, owned and net streamed, than at any time before I bought Sonos. Nothing to do with "pride of ownership" - much of the hifi kit I went through for the 15 years before Sonos contained components that had much more of that psychological factor than what Sonos offers.


That mirrors my own experience. I got a bunch of Sonos kit 18 months ago, which I use primarily with a Google Play Music (GPM) subscription, and I've listened to more music (and discovered more new music courtesy of GPM discovery features) in those 18 months than in the previous 10 years. I did my research first and the Sonos and GPM combination, with a bit of TuneIn Radio thrown in, exactly meets my needs. The Sonos system itself has, per the cliche, been rock-solid reliable, akin to the reliability you get from domestic appliances that "just work" such that you don't really think about them. There are not many technology gadgets you can say that about.
jgatie : I think it's a bit cheap to take legitimate grievances of customers and just brush them off. "Dissing"? Grow up a little. I own a set of Sonos speakers ( I bought them for myself and they were not a gift) and I also recently purchased a Google Chromecast Audio.

I love Sonos hardware. My recent acquisition was 2 of their Play 1's. I love the sound that comes out of these speakers, for the size that they are. I also love their design. However, Sonos needs to wake up and smell the competition. I don't know how else to say this but: Sonos, your software absolutely sucks. It really does. Every single step of the way, you have decided to take more and more control away from the user. Equalizer control? Almost non-existent. Tone settings? Nope. Third party support or open source support? Nadda.

What makes me mad about the Play 1 in particular is not that you decided to not include 3.5mm Audio-In, but that you decided not to include it despite not offering any kind of official screen-cast capability. Why does this matter? Well if I wanted to play audio from an application or device that isn't supported by your streaming firmware, I could at least physically connect it to a 3.5mm and continue my listening but you decided not to. So I can't listen to apps you don't care enough to support. On speakers that I paid over $400. The cost of adding a line-in is trivial. What the hell?

Fine whatever, you don't want to add line in. At least add support for screen-casting like Google Chromecast Audio does. Open up your software. Or take the trouble to make it better.

With Google Chromecast Audio, I can cast whatever audio is streaming on my screen to whatever speaker I like in whatever room I would like to send it to. My favorite podcast application on Android is Pocketcasts. It's a great app, been using it for years. And yet Sonos can't play nice with it. Why? Because Pocketcasts stores its files in a certain sub-folder and the developers at Sonos can't be bothered to have the Sonos app set up to generate lists that include all sub-folders within a folder. You know what's even worse? I searched through and people have been complaining about this same exact problem for over a year! And your only response is to say Pocketcasts isn't compatible. Like, what? You're not capable of building something that can read sub-folders and your response is to just say, "Meh. It's somebody else's problem"? It's 2015 Sonos. Sub-folders are a thing. Surely you have the technology to populate lists from within sub-folders? And why do you not care about people asking you for this?

Some fans declare that Sonos is not meant for all-purpose usage. Instead that it's mostly for music-heavy use only. Well I'm one of those people that bought the Sonos for music only and I'm still disappointed. If sound is the most important thing that why is their so little control over sound settings or playlist management? I have 1 bar for base and 1 bar for treble and a button that says "Loud Mode"? Why?

And why is your library management so piss poor? I have a huge collection of music, a lot of which comes from CDs that I bought and ripped and there's no way to arrange the library by folder and sub-folder? I have music apps on my smartphone that I've bought for $5 that give me more control over sound and better library support. Please take a look at PowerAmp on Android ($3.99) as an example of what a beautiful, powerful music application should be (I am not affiliated in any way) : https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.maxmpz.audioplayer&hl=en

It really is a shame that you don't listen to your power-users and your customers with more common needs. I'll probably be leaving the Sonos bandwagon and switching to buying powered speakers and connecting to them through Chromecast Audio or similar streaming devices. There's lots of great speakers out there. I bought Sonos because I thought that you guys did the best job of integrating the whole experience. It's sad to see that you have stopped innovating and are falling behind.

I'm sure you made a killing over Christmas with all the people that bought your devices. But I think you will see a lot of returned merchandise and a lot of one-time customers that won't come back. The competition is growing and the future is coming. I will be making my own video review of the Sonos eco-system as it stands today.


Be sure to include the 463 GitHub projects that enable things like AirPlay to Sonos, Amazon Echo integration, Siri integration, IFTTT integration,... in your video. https://github.com/search?utf8=%E2%9C%93&q=Sonos

And don't forget those third-party controller apps that are as simple as a download for iOS and Android. Oh, and both of the Apple Watch controllers for Sonos. And all those DLNA apps that can use Sonos renderers.

Be sure to point the Roon folks at the GitHub projects that enable complete control of Sonos when you're complaining to them about their lack of Sonos integration. I looked at their forum; their CEO was blaming Sonos' "complexity" for their lack of Sonos integration, LOL. Jishi's project alone ought to be all they need, but there are several others. They might want to contact Sonos directly; Google did, and now the Google Music app can directly control Sonos. Would be a huge win for Roon, might even save them from the fate of the vast majority of Sonos "killers" over the years.
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Millions of satisfied customers are laughing heartily at Astral and his friends. Simple matter of checking the thousands of reviews on Amazon and Best Buy. The very few 1 and 2 star reviews get voted as "unhelpful" big time, as they are usually from clueless idiots who thought they were buying bluetooth speakers, lol.

Remember Squeezebox, Astral? Did much of what you're asking, but required a user-provided server. Pain in the butt, so it failed miserably, as have the vast majority of Sonos "killers". They simply aren't as easy to use, or as comprehensive a solution as Sonos, so they fail.

You are obviously blissfully unaware that any DLNA-capable app can use Sonos devices as renderers. Ever tried BubbleUPnP? C5? Plenty of others, as well, though none as capable by any stretch as the Sonos app. There are also apps that use the native Sonos protocol, just search the app stores for Sonos, they pop right up.

Sonos also provides an API that any streaming provider can use to enable their service in Sonos. It's why Sonos supports 60+ services, while its competition, what's left of it, supports 3, 4, maybe 6 at the most. No competition at all, really, is it?

Oh, and show me another wireless, multiroom-capable speaker that can tune itself to the room, very easily...


This is the kind of response that I love about the Sonos community. Truly delusional and fanboy-ish in nature. You remind of the Apple-mania that swept across years ago where any criticism of a company lead to a completely knee-jerk response from devoted followers of the cult. Much like Apple, Sonos seems to depend on customers that have bought a product that gives them some kind of sense of social standing or superiority. Your product purchase defines you as a person. ALL HAIL THE ONE TRUE GOD.

Millions of satisfied customers are laughing heartily at Astral and his friends"

Uh, ok? Do you actually feel like this is US vs THEM. Or are you actually sitting there imagining millions of devoted cult followers are sitting by there computers following this thread laughing because their consumer electronics choices are what defines their existence.

The very few 1 and 2 star reviews get voted as "unhelpful" big time, as they are usually from clueless idiots who thought they were buying bluetooth speakers, lol.

"Clueless idiots, lol?" How old are you, 14?

Criticizing Sonos' truly horrible software management, user interface and refusal to listen to repeated user complaints over the years is I guess pointless when the community is just a bunch of fan boys that think they're all rooting for a sports team rather than consumers of a product that deserves some basic improvements to make it useful for those of us that love music and need a basic level of library and DSP support.

Just taking a quick glance through the forums you see things that would otherwise be shameful for a company that claims to provide a great experience. People actually having to find work arounds to listen to one podcast at-a-time. In 2015. Can you believe that? One lousy podcast. That's one file. That's one syndicated feed.

And it's shameful that the community is such a bunch of shills. If your responses weren't so childish I would accuse you of being paid employees masquerading as genuine consumers but sadly your immaturity fails to convince me that you're capable of that.

Sonos is now the Audio equivalent of buying Apple products is for some people : just some kind of over priced status symbol that has an unquestioning user base that's convinced they're the best and unwilling to criticize their prized purchases. Sure they made some great innovations years ago, but now it's just a matter of marketing superiority and packaging innovations of other companies as their very own. Everything is revolutionary and everything is innovation. Even though it isn't.

Sonos as a company won't listen because it has people like you devoted to buying products for the sake of buying products.

In some ways it's worse than being a bad product, because if it was just a bad product I'd dump it and move on. But it's a beautiful piece of hardware, with an easy to use, easy to set up and solid wireless mesh that's let down by truly crappy software and a lack of interest on the part of the company to listen to user complaints an problems. But I guess it has people like you to thank for that.

I'll end my rant with one word that I think sums up my Sonos experience :

Meh.
I'll end this thread with one word that sums up my opinion of Astra9's opinion.

Meh.

Or is it . . . blech?

6 of one . . .
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I changed my mind. Sonos is beautiful and amazing and perfect. How could I have been so wrong.
I changed my mind. Sonos is beautiful and amazing and perfect. How could I have been so wrong.

Meh. Who cares what you think? The vast majority of people who post here buy it for what it is and are happy with their purchase; and because of that, they like to help other enthusiasts get the most out of their purchases. Then there are those who would rather go on a Ford forum and repeatedly post "Ford sucks!" rather than simply buy a Chevy and shut the hell up.
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I could say the same about you. I couldn't give a rats ass either. But I did initially come here under the illusion that Sonos as a company owes it's customers what they promise on the box.

The fact that you think it's everything you've ever dreamed of, I don't really give a shit. But as an owner I complained. The inane excuses in this thread were just added entertainment that show that the world of fanboy love is still alive and well. Continue forth, minions!
I could say the same about you. I couldn't give a rats ass either. But I did initially come here under the illusion that Sonos as a company owes it's customers what they promise on the box.

The fact that you think it's everything you've ever dreamed of, I don't really give a shit. But as an owner I complained. The inane excuses in this thread were just added entertainment that show that the world of fanboy love is still alive and well. Continue forth, minions!


The fact you see us as minions as opposed to seeing yourself as a contrarian minority who would rather complain about what something isn't instead of going out and buying any one of the other devices he holds up as superior says way more about you than any of the juvenile taunts you toss out. Sonos works for the vast majority because it works for the vast majority, not because we are senseless lemmings who are not as enlightened as you are to the achievement of sonic nirvana.

How do I know this?

Simple; you are still here bitching instead of out buying and enjoying your enlightened idea of sonic nirvana.
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I'm still here bitching, so I'll give you that. But there's only so much you can do from an airport terminal.
I'm still here bitching, so I'll give you that. But there's only so much you can do from an airport terminal.

I rest my case.
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I rest my case.

Congratulations! You win. Your Internet Argument Champion trophy is on its way in the mail. Tell me, how does it feel to be a winner? How awesome are you? Is looking into your eyes kind of like staring at the center of the sun? I bet it is. You sexy, sexy thing, you.
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''chicks wrote:

Remember Squeezebox, Astral? Did much of what you're asking, but required a user-provided server. Pain in the butt, so it failed miserably, as have the vast majority of Sonos "killers". They simply aren't as easy to use, or as comprehensive a solution as Sonos, so they fail.''- ittrongly 's still going

Squeezebox didn't fail - it's still going strongly in various guises with a very sophisticated interface (either on the devices or as a remote controller). In fact I have a mixed system with original squeezebox devices (radio, Touch) and 'squeezebox players (including Sonos speakers, a Pioneer xw-sma speaker, a Pure internet radio and a Chromecast - all play the same wide selection of services (Deezer, Spotify, BBC iPlayer, Podcasts, Tunein, etc.). All with the same unified gui interface (PC, Android, or IThing).. Also, access to a manageable music collection - not limited to 65K tracks.

If you feel restricted by Sonos - just install LMS on a PC (even a Raspi will do) and use your Sonos devices as squeezebox players - a perfect union of excellent hardware and excellent software.
Astral can't even take his own advice and buy something else, never mind taking someone else's advice. 😉
I still use a Squeezebox Radio in the bathroom; I like the clock! 🙂 Did the LMS thing, but Sonos is just so much simpler... I sure wouldn't call the Squeezebox interface sophisticated, it's outdated, ugly and far less useable than the current Sonos UI, IMO. I'll stick with the Sonos software, thanks; definitely don't find it restricting, much better than the SB.

I use Chromecast with a Joydrone DAC into a Connect for playing YooToob videos. Works.
Oh, and easy access to millions and millions of tracks via inexpensive subscriptions. Haven't used the NAS in a long time...
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Astral can't even take his own advice and buy something else, never mind taking someone else's advice. ;)

I'm so stupid, Lol. Have you forgotten that millions of satisfied customers are laughing heartily at me and my friends? Millions!

I'm so stupid, Lol. Have you forgotten that millions of satisfied customers are laughing heartily at me and my friends? Millions!


I never said anything of the sort. I called you a contrarian minority and stated the reason the vast majority who post here disagree with you is for reasons other than your juvenile accusation of being "minions" or "fanboys". But keep it up, I always love it when one is so rattled they have resort to a desperate twisting of words.
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I'm so stupid, Lol. Have you forgotten that millions of satisfied customers are laughing heartily at me and my friends? Millions!


I never said anything of the sort. I called you a contrarian minority and stated the reason the vast majority who post here disagree with you is for reasons other than your juvenile accusation of being "minions" or "fanboys". But keep it up, I always love it when one is so rattled they have resort to a desperate twisting of words.


Don't worry buddy, didn't I mention that you already won? I was just quoting chicks. I hope I didn't hurt your feelings. I'm just so stupid y'know. Stupid me.


Millions of satisfied customers are laughing heartily at Astral and his friends. Simple matter of checking the thousands of reviews on Amazon and Best Buy. The very few 1 and 2 star reviews get voted as "unhelpful" big time, as they are usually from clueless idiots who thought they were buying bluetooth speakers, lol.
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Oh, and easy access to millions and millions of tracks via inexpensive subscriptions. Haven't used the NAS in a long time...

You can do that wih LMS also .... and moreover you get coherent access to BBC listen again material, if that floats your boat.
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Oh, and easy access to millions and millions of tracks via inexpensive subscriptions. Haven't used the NAS in a long time...

You can do that wih LMS also .... and moreover you get coherent access to BBC listen again material, if that floats your boat.


Hey Castalla. Thanks for the posts. Is there LMS friendly hardware that you would recommend, and if not what kind of hoops do I have to jump to make Sonos friendly with an LMS set up? Any LMS controller applications for Android, Windows and/or Linux would you recommend? I can run the server on a dedicated box or on a NAS.

Don't worry buddy, didn't I mention that you already won? I was just quoting chicks. I hope I didn't hurt your feelings. I'm just so stupid y'know. Stupid me.



Just when I thought you couldn't get any more juvenile than "fanboy" and "minion", you outdo yourself with passive-aggressive. Well done! Next I assume will be " Neener neener, boo boo!"?
Getting to be as much fun as the High Rez thread!
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Dude, at least finish the line. Jesus. Do I have to do all the work here?

"Neener neener, boo boo
Stick your head in doo doo"

Good. Glad we got that out of the way.

I mean, if millions of satisfied customers are laughing heartily at me and my friends as was pointed out, I might as well play the role I've been told right?

We now continue with our scheduled Sonos Evangelist programming.