So it's Boxing day, and I've just received a lovely big SONOS Play:1 speaker for Christmas. I set the speakers up and try to find them on my system. Nothing.
I do some research, trying to figure out why I can only play through SONOS app and verified programmes approved through the SONOS app.
Why something which clearly cost more than a few pretty pennies is essentially useless for anything other than playing music.
No live sound, no video sync, nothing but music through SONOS.
So the decrepit old speakers I have had since 2000 are essentially doing a better job than the basic model of SONOS. Not only this but my cheap shower bluetooth speaker I bought for my boyfriend (£5.99) can do what this supposedly amazing modern and high quality technology cannot. Which is play ANY sound off of my computer or phone that I want it to.
How is this a complicated concept and why, after literally years and years of community comments and wailings and clearly strong customer dissatisfaction haven't you developed a simple software fix for this? What, you can play my music at the highest sound level ever but can't handle a simple YouTube video? What kind of operation are you running? Please for the love of all things good and pure and sound related, just fix this issue. I don't think I've ever had more issue with such a supposedly 'amazing' product before. If Bluetooth is such a low quality sound how come they can do what you can't?
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So Sonos isn't the master of Audio. With Chromecast Audio, LG's WiFi multiroom system and Bose following up, Sonos isn't the master of multi-room wireless either. And evidently they aren't the master of software integration either. So what is Sonos good at?
Ahh, if you are defining master of audio in just that very limited way, Sonos is clearly the master. No one today does multi room wireless audio as well as Sonos does. I have used CC and Bose enough to say that and I doubt LG is any better than these two.
I would extend this to say that it holds true at any price point in the market today.
I've been using CC in parallel to my Sonos for the past few weeks and aside from the polish on the app, by which I mean the aesthetics of the application alone the Chromecast has done everything my Sonos set up does. I have not utilized higher sampling and bit rates but apparently the CC can also handle higher quality files than Sonos can (which is a hardware limitation of the Sonos). The CC app, while not aesthetically pleasing is much more functional and I imagine will improve rapidly since this is it's first iteration.
Out of curiosity I've gone back through posts looking for my own problems and found you responding in similar manner to other users with problems or criticism of Sonos. Can Sonos do no wrong? What is this innovation that you speak of? If Sonos cannot handle files, sort libraries or provide customers with the connectivity options that they need - how do you claim that it is the best at multi-room wireless?
Perhaps you're a proud owner, but I'm not. And I'm not quite as naive as to claim that units shipped is an indicator of innovation. Sonos was once an innovator. Now it can't make an app with an equalizer or library management or max out bit rates, or even do what you claim it does best : play anywhere.
Those here that work for Sonos are identified as such.
Two recent examples of innovation are the new 5 units that do something that no other speaker in the market does today - change the stereo image to taste between horizontal and vertical positioning, among other improvements to sound quality to the line up. Trueplay tuning customises the sound to better suit the room the speaker is placed in and this is something that is offered for all speakers made by Sonos in the past as well, going back to 2009. Quite innovative and a rare thing, that. You can say that this innovation is of no use to you, but jumping from there to say that Sonos does no innovation is a big jump.
Most of us that post here do so to help Sonos users make the most of their kit, to do all it can.
I've been using CC in parallel to my Sonos for the past few weeks and aside from the polish on the app, by which I mean the aesthetics of the application alone the Chromecast has done everything my Sonos set up does. I have not utilized higher sampling and bit rates but apparently the CC can also handle higher quality files than Sonos can (which is a hardware limitation of the Sonos). The CC app, while not aesthetically pleasing is much more functional and I imagine will improve rapidly since this is it's first iteration.
I have said elsewhere here that CC is the first real competition to Sonos, now that multi room is released. It isn't for me, but may well suit many. A lot of my music is heard via large shuffled NAS based playlists that I can stop/start instantly via the buttons on the units, even days after stopping play. With CC, I have to locate my phone, wake it up, invoke the CC app every time - doesn't work for me, all of that. And with Sonosnet, Sonos music play will probably be more stable with more up time compared to the WiFi based CC. I have also found the starting a stream via CC doesn't always happen at the first press of the necessary button, while Sonos always fires up instantly. For me therefore, the CC user interface is still clunky compared to that of Sonos, and I am not talking cosmetics.
With CC, as I have said elsewhere if you have followed all my posts(!), I have said that I don't advocate Sonos as fully as I did till CC was launched, but if I were spending today, I would still choose Sonos. But for some, CC is a much more viable alternative than any in the past till now.
By the way, the 5 units do offer line in. Always have.
jgatie here is a praise my first comment
"it does work well within a narrow band of requirements"
"it does work well within a narrow band of requirements"
kumar
This
"Trueplay tuning customises the sound to better suit the room the speaker is placed in and this is something that is offered for all speakers made by Sonos in the past as well, going back to 2009. Quite innovative and a rare thing, that. "
has been available on AV receivers by a lot of manufacturers for quite some time.
This
"Trueplay tuning customises the sound to better suit the room the speaker is placed in and this is something that is offered for all speakers made by Sonos in the past as well, going back to 2009. Quite innovative and a rare thing, that. "
has been available on AV receivers by a lot of manufacturers for quite some time.
This
"Trueplay tuning customises the sound to better suit the room the speaker is placed in and this is something that is offered for all speakers made by Sonos in the past as well, going back to 2009. Quite innovative and a rare thing, that. "
has been available on AV receivers by a lot of manufacturers for quite some time.
Which is about as relevant as saying, "cars have had automatic transmissions for a long time". How many multi-room speaker systems have it to date? Let's see... one,...
Room equalisation has been around for some time, you can only do the room that the speaker is in, so the use of this feature is exactly the same as for the AV receivers, no innovation required.
Generally people do this by ear to their own tastes, which can't be done on a Sonos system as there is no user available EQ of any worth.
Why would any one want to do it themselves? surely the audio experts know what they are doing right!
Well maybe I have specific hearing loss, or sensitivity....they don't know my particular situation. Truplay is good for a starting point but let me have control after that please.
Generally people do this by ear to their own tastes, which can't be done on a Sonos system as there is no user available EQ of any worth.
Why would any one want to do it themselves? surely the audio experts know what they are doing right!
Well maybe I have specific hearing loss, or sensitivity....they don't know my particular situation. Truplay is good for a starting point but let me have control after that please.
Sonos offers sound tuning to the extent it believes is asked for by its chosen market of interest for the speakers they make. A product management decision Sonos has made, and I assume they know their business better than anyone here probably does. I certainly don't claim to know better.
For those that do not find this adequate, Sonos also offers Connect that can be used with any active speaker out there which has the desired sound quality and features needed by those that aren't happy with what they can get from Sonos speakers.
For those that do not find this adequate, Sonos also offers Connect that can be used with any active speaker out there which has the desired sound quality and features needed by those that aren't happy with what they can get from Sonos speakers.
Trueplay is used to compensate for the speaker placement within a room of a certain character to give, I suggest, a flat response. It is then left to the producer/artist of the music to colo(u)r that flatness with their art as they would like to hear it.
Sonos could probably get stats off the users equipment that allow it, so that they can also do some analysis and come up with some standard setting to get close to the general room size etc, but it would only be statistical mean. Thats why we have Trueplay to tune to the specific room. So I suppose your statement is somewhat true but isn't the whole story, the same as the speaker is only a part of the system that reproduces the audio.
It would then be nice for some listener input to complete the mix that he/she desires.
I'm out of here I have some important audio testing to do:)
Sonos could probably get stats off the users equipment that allow it, so that they can also do some analysis and come up with some standard setting to get close to the general room size etc, but it would only be statistical mean. Thats why we have Trueplay to tune to the specific room. So I suppose your statement is somewhat true but isn't the whole story, the same as the speaker is only a part of the system that reproduces the audio.
It would then be nice for some listener input to complete the mix that he/she desires.
I'm out of here I have some important audio testing to do:)
I am not unconditionally defending Sonos. There are aspects of the product line and/or software that could use tweaking (shoot, I still can't get my iTunes playlists to properly sort). But some of the arguments for/against Sonos on this thread are really out of scope and context. Such as:
Comparing Sonos to stand-alone bluetooth speakers
Complaining that Sonos speakers can't be directly connected to a computer
Dismissing the innovations Sonos is implementing (and supporting on their older equipment)
Arguing that TruePlay is not a positive development because it has been available in AV receivers for years
In all seriousness, I would bet my bottom dollar that of all of the AV receivers out there in use, less than 5% of the owners have configured them using the built-in calibration software and provided microphone. Obviously that cannot be proven, it is just an opinion/estimate.
And besides, when comparing Sonos to an AV receiver, you are really comparing apples and oranges anyhow. Everyone recognizes that, right? Ask a novice to set up a multi-zone AVR, with wires running from the AVR location out to a different room, and then switch inputs and zones with the AV vendor's app or the IR remote that needs to be pointed at the AVR, and then trying to teach others in the house to use it............and let me know when that person is done pulling out his hair.
Sonos is by no means perfect. And the use case for Sonos (or really wifi systems in general) may not fit the needs/desires for some people. But really, focus on what the Sonos ecosystem does, and not on what it does not do.
EDIT: Disclosure: I have Sonos equipment in 4 rooms in my home. Further, I have a Denon AVR and 5.1 speaker system in my basement home theater, with wires running from that AVR out to my zone 2 patio for my outdoor enjoyment. I have experience in setting up both types of systems, and I would absolutely not have used an AVR or multi-zone amp to create a whole home system under any circumstances.
Comparing Sonos to stand-alone bluetooth speakers
Complaining that Sonos speakers can't be directly connected to a computer
Dismissing the innovations Sonos is implementing (and supporting on their older equipment)
Arguing that TruePlay is not a positive development because it has been available in AV receivers for years
In all seriousness, I would bet my bottom dollar that of all of the AV receivers out there in use, less than 5% of the owners have configured them using the built-in calibration software and provided microphone. Obviously that cannot be proven, it is just an opinion/estimate.
And besides, when comparing Sonos to an AV receiver, you are really comparing apples and oranges anyhow. Everyone recognizes that, right? Ask a novice to set up a multi-zone AVR, with wires running from the AVR location out to a different room, and then switch inputs and zones with the AV vendor's app or the IR remote that needs to be pointed at the AVR, and then trying to teach others in the house to use it............and let me know when that person is done pulling out his hair.
Sonos is by no means perfect. And the use case for Sonos (or really wifi systems in general) may not fit the needs/desires for some people. But really, focus on what the Sonos ecosystem does, and not on what it does not do.
EDIT: Disclosure: I have Sonos equipment in 4 rooms in my home. Further, I have a Denon AVR and 5.1 speaker system in my basement home theater, with wires running from that AVR out to my zone 2 patio for my outdoor enjoyment. I have experience in setting up both types of systems, and I would absolutely not have used an AVR or multi-zone amp to create a whole home system under any circumstances.
It would then be nice for some listener input to complete the mix that he/she desires.
At this time, the "some" you desire is via treble/bass shelving tone controls of the kind that many high end stereo amps don't have! If you want more, third party actives is the only option at this time. Or something else that will allow an external DSP box of tricks somewhere in the signal chain.
Sonos is by no means perfect. And the use case for Sonos (or really wifi systems in general) may not fit the needs/desires for some people. But really, focus on what the Sonos ecosystem does, and not on what it does not do.
Exactly.
I believe part of the problem here is that wireless streaming audio remains quite complicated, diverse and in flux. It's not a static, commodity-like sector where all products essentially do the same thing, which consumers are familiar with and know what they're getting. This is not always appreciated by purchasers who fail to do a little research first to see if the product matches their requirements. And as an emerging product sector, consumers may not even know their requirements until they begin to kick the tyres a little.
Consumers knew what to expect from traditional speakers, and many are now familiar with and know what to expect from Bluetooth speakers. They may then assume that Sonos devices should behave similarly to those and can become frustrated when they discover they don't...
For example, the OP wrote: "Why can't I just use you like any other speakers", assuming that because a Play:1 looks like a traditional speaker that it should be able to behave like one, whereas we know it doesn't. Instead, it's a wireless, multi-room, streaming audio player & speaker, with different and immensely greater functionality than a traditional speaker.
However, its functionality is not a superset of a traditional speaker's features. In choosing to make its products excel at specific things (which they do) Sonos chose not to implement some other things, and it's these "some other things" that seem to repeatedly trip up some people, bifurcating Sonos users into the majority who love them and a minority who seem to hate them. Of course, if people first did some initial research they could avoid disappointment if they find their specific requirements aren't met, but I suspect most people in this category simply don't realise that they need to do any initial research. That may seem crazy to the more thorough or technically-minded, but that's how most consumers probably behave.
I think the biggest headache for Sonos is that Bluetooth speakers have now set expectations that you can send to them the audio from any app. But this app-centric approach is different to the device-centric approach the Sonos app imposes, and which comes as a surprise (and disappointment) to some. It's why I believe Google's Cast API is a game-changer, since it retains the app-centricity that people have come to expect. I'm very interested to see the path things take as wireless streaming audio evolves.
I think most Sonos purchasers are informed, just a very few clueless folks out there. Glance at the reviews of the Play:1s on Best Buy, 99% would recommend the purchase to friends, vast majority give five star rating. But, there will always be the tiny minority of impulse buyers who assume they're buying Bluetooth or computer speakers, and whine.
http://www.bestbuy.com/site/sonos-play1-wireless-speaker-for-streaming-music-black/1648801.p?id=1219058144905&skuId=1648801
http://www.bestbuy.com/site/sonos-play1-wireless-speaker-for-streaming-music-black/1648801.p?id=1219058144905&skuId=1648801
jdag , I was only comparing the connivence of the mobile aspect of the soulmate, which for its size and cost is very capable.
The feature of room equalisation,RE, was trumpeted as an innovation of Sonos which is not the case its been around for a while, nobody was comparing with AV receivers, just the feature of RE. Also RE can only work in the room where the speaker is, its of no use for multi room , each room has yo be done separately.
I have done lots of research on Sonos before purchase and am satisfied that the play5s I have fit the bill they were bought for, however there are other claims by Sonos that don't give me a solution that is, on the face of it, as appealing as other manufacturers. The 5.1 surround is a case in point, not supporting DTS and HDMI leaves them open to competition.
Its not difficult to addd Bluetooth and NFC to a product like Sonos, it would add a minor cost to the hardware.
The feature of room equalisation,RE, was trumpeted as an innovation of Sonos which is not the case its been around for a while, nobody was comparing with AV receivers, just the feature of RE. Also RE can only work in the room where the speaker is, its of no use for multi room , each room has yo be done separately.
I have done lots of research on Sonos before purchase and am satisfied that the play5s I have fit the bill they were bought for, however there are other claims by Sonos that don't give me a solution that is, on the face of it, as appealing as other manufacturers. The 5.1 surround is a case in point, not supporting DTS and HDMI leaves them open to competition.
Its not difficult to addd Bluetooth and NFC to a product like Sonos, it would add a minor cost to the hardware.
I wonder if we can beat the longest thread, we probably have a few thousand to go, keep it up guys 🙂
Dec...you mentioned "jdag , I was only comparing the connivence of the mobile aspect of the soulmate, which for its size and cost is very capable."
That's actually often the issue with people complaining about Sonos, and you are helping to make my point. People often compare devices or uses of those devices that are simply not comparable. Sure, the Soulmate is portable and a Sonos speaker is not. And that's fine as Sonos speakers are not built or sold to be portable.
Would I purchase a battery powered or outdoor Sonos speaker? Yeah, I probably would. But I don't diminish the other positives because they lack portability or battery operation. People often complain that it does not offer bluetooth, and again, by design. Whether you or others agree with that choice to not support bluetooth is subjective. Me, I couldn't care less.
I also believe that people that are the sole users of a system have a completely different perspective from those that have multiple users within the household. Sonos is absolutely brilliant in its ability to be controlled from any device. Some people might argue that there is no password protection, but as mentioned before, I like to focus on what the solution does as opposed to what it does not do.
That's actually often the issue with people complaining about Sonos, and you are helping to make my point. People often compare devices or uses of those devices that are simply not comparable. Sure, the Soulmate is portable and a Sonos speaker is not. And that's fine as Sonos speakers are not built or sold to be portable.
Would I purchase a battery powered or outdoor Sonos speaker? Yeah, I probably would. But I don't diminish the other positives because they lack portability or battery operation. People often complain that it does not offer bluetooth, and again, by design. Whether you or others agree with that choice to not support bluetooth is subjective. Me, I couldn't care less.
I also believe that people that are the sole users of a system have a completely different perspective from those that have multiple users within the household. Sonos is absolutely brilliant in its ability to be controlled from any device. Some people might argue that there is no password protection, but as mentioned before, I like to focus on what the solution does as opposed to what it does not do.
If you step back for a moment and look at the responses on this thread, what you begin to realize is really sad is the deflection and grasping of imaginary criticisms. You seem to defend things that nobody is even asking of Sonos. I'm not accusing Sonos of not innovating. Oh, right, they stuck some accelerometers in their speakers so you can flip them over. And they added Trueplay, which every AV receiver has had for years.
But you know what, I'm NOT complaining that Sonos isn't doing anything earth shattering. I'm not asking Sonos to WOW my socks off with the next big thing. And that's what really sucks about this thread. None of you are willing to admit that Sonos is broken. It's broken in the sense that it doesn't create a good, basic music system. That's IT. Just the basics, that's ALL we're asking for : give me a half decent application that can sort a library the way Winamp could do back in 1999. Give me the ability to select a folder to be catalogued so I can listen to it, instead of having to search for little work-arounds to listen to a simple friggin' podcast.
Sonos has to realize that if they want a good user experience. Wait, I'm sorrry. Did I say good? I meant Sonos has to realize that if it wants to allow its users to have a basic user experience it has to either work twice as hard to maintain a half decent application that can sort files and provide some basic level of DSP manipulation or it has to consider letting other applications stream to it's hardware. And before anyone gets defensive : This does NOT mean open sourcing anything. It means giving application developers the ability to put a 'Send To Chromecast' like button.
But you know what, I'm NOT complaining that Sonos isn't doing anything earth shattering. I'm not asking Sonos to WOW my socks off with the next big thing. And that's what really sucks about this thread. None of you are willing to admit that Sonos is broken. It's broken in the sense that it doesn't create a good, basic music system. That's IT. Just the basics, that's ALL we're asking for : give me a half decent application that can sort a library the way Winamp could do back in 1999. Give me the ability to select a folder to be catalogued so I can listen to it, instead of having to search for little work-arounds to listen to a simple friggin' podcast.
Sonos has to realize that if they want a good user experience. Wait, I'm sorrry. Did I say good? I meant Sonos has to realize that if it wants to allow its users to have a basic user experience it has to either work twice as hard to maintain a half decent application that can sort files and provide some basic level of DSP manipulation or it has to consider letting other applications stream to it's hardware. And before anyone gets defensive : This does NOT mean open sourcing anything. It means giving application developers the ability to put a 'Send To Chromecast' like button.
Really?
@jdag (lmftfy) Really.
Millions of satisfied customers are laughing heartily at Astral and his friends. Simple matter of checking the thousands of reviews on Amazon and Best Buy. The very few 1 and 2 star reviews get voted as "unhelpful" big time, as they are usually from clueless idiots who thought they were buying bluetooth speakers, lol.
Remember Squeezebox, Astral? Did much of what you're asking, but required a user-provided server. Pain in the butt, so it failed miserably, as have the vast majority of Sonos "killers". They simply aren't as easy to use, or as comprehensive a solution as Sonos, so they fail.
You are obviously blissfully unaware that any DLNA-capable app can use Sonos devices as renderers. Ever tried BubbleUPnP? C5? Plenty of others, as well, though none as capable by any stretch as the Sonos app. There are also apps that use the native Sonos protocol, just search the app stores for Sonos, they pop right up.
Sonos also provides an API that any streaming provider can use to enable their service in Sonos. It's why Sonos supports 60+ services, while its competition, what's left of it, supports 3, 4, maybe 6 at the most. No competition at all, really, is it?
Oh, and show me another wireless, multiroom-capable speaker that can tune itself to the room, very easily...
Remember Squeezebox, Astral? Did much of what you're asking, but required a user-provided server. Pain in the butt, so it failed miserably, as have the vast majority of Sonos "killers". They simply aren't as easy to use, or as comprehensive a solution as Sonos, so they fail.
You are obviously blissfully unaware that any DLNA-capable app can use Sonos devices as renderers. Ever tried BubbleUPnP? C5? Plenty of others, as well, though none as capable by any stretch as the Sonos app. There are also apps that use the native Sonos protocol, just search the app stores for Sonos, they pop right up.
Sonos also provides an API that any streaming provider can use to enable their service in Sonos. It's why Sonos supports 60+ services, while its competition, what's left of it, supports 3, 4, maybe 6 at the most. No competition at all, really, is it?
Oh, and show me another wireless, multiroom-capable speaker that can tune itself to the room, very easily...
Please explain.
Are you agreeing with Astral's comment that "it doesn't create a good, basic music system"???
@jdag Really? Vs Really. specifically the Winamp 1999 comparison and the comments around workarounds to do basic things.
Sure, goes back to the statement that I, and many others have made, that Sonos is by no means perfect. Anyhow, this thread has gone in so many directions. I'll stop contributing to it by simply saying that I find my Sonos setup to be my most enjoyable tech purchase in many many years.
@jdag wish I could say the same. My family struggles with the many limitations.
The saving grace is that I am able to use them as Squeezebox zones because LMS has the ability to take control of Sonos.
Currently using Roon to play to my Sonos amps via Roon's Squeezebox implementation and a SB Touch.
The saving grace is that I am able to use them as Squeezebox zones because LMS has the ability to take control of Sonos.
Currently using Roon to play to my Sonos amps via Roon's Squeezebox implementation and a SB Touch.
I just got on board Sonos and I can say it's simple to setup and audio is great. My kids are all connected and they each have a SONOS Play :1 and enjoying every moment of it. Further invested in a Playbar and a SUB to replace my aging AVR, a Marantz with B&W speakers. It has rich sound but as mentioned in this thread numerous times it's not perfect but I can say one thing SONOS is not static as my old 5.1 system and I notice it constantly improves the software which is a plus point. Only setback is that if the Playbar can decode DTS will be huge step forward. Anyway as a new user I'm happy with the $$$ spent.
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