Answered
Sonos Sub grouping
I have a Playbar set up in one room and one Play:5 stereo pair set up in a second room. Is it possible to add a Sub to a third room and then group the third room with the first only, with the second only, and with both the first and second?
Best answer by spydrwebb
My understanding is once the Sub is grouped with a Playbar (for example), you cannot use the Sub in a separate group unless it's first unpaired from the initial and re-paired with the room where you want it.
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+7My understanding is once the Sub is grouped with a Playbar (for example), you cannot use the Sub in a separate group unless it's first unpaired from the initial and re-paired with the room where you want it.
A SUB can't be it's own room. It must be "bonded" in Sonos terms, with another speaker (set). So, as spydrwebb says, it's more of a process than most people prefer to swap a sub between rooms. There have been many requests for Sonos to make it possible, I can only imagine that the sales team wouldn't want that to occur, as I'd bet they'd lose 20% of the SUB sales quickly.
There's a feature in the controller app to "Add a Speaker or Sub" in the Settings area. If you go in to the Room Settings for a room that has a Sub bonded to it, there's a function to "Remove Sub".
My Playbar is in "TV Room". My Play:5 stereo pair is in "Family Room". The speakers within these two logical rooms are all located within the same physical room in my home. "TV Room" and "Family Room" are grouped. If I bond a Sub to "TV Room" and do not power on the television, will the Sub still play programming sent to "Family Room"?
Yes. Allow me to be a bit pedantic. Sonos uses the words "Bonded" and "Paired" and "Grouped" to mean very specific things.
Bonded is a semi permanent connection between speakers in a logical room. So, the surrounds are bonded with a sound bar. The Sub is bonded with the soundbar.
Paired is when you set up a stereo pair. So left and right Sonos speakers are paired.
Grouped is when you combine the logical rooms in the Sonos software so that they'll play together. It's considered relatively transitory, easy to do and undo as desired.
Rooms for Sonos are a logical construction, and have no relationship with physical placement.
So, if you group your TV Room and your Family room together, all of the speakers in those logical rooms will play in sync (there's a minor caveat here, they won't be in sync when using the TV line in, but when streaming music, they will be.)
Which means yes, the Sub will still play programming sent to the Family room, as will the PLAYBAR, when the TV room is grouped .
Bonded is a semi permanent connection between speakers in a logical room. So, the surrounds are bonded with a sound bar. The Sub is bonded with the soundbar.
Paired is when you set up a stereo pair. So left and right Sonos speakers are paired.
Grouped is when you combine the logical rooms in the Sonos software so that they'll play together. It's considered relatively transitory, easy to do and undo as desired.
Rooms for Sonos are a logical construction, and have no relationship with physical placement.
So, if you group your TV Room and your Family room together, all of the speakers in those logical rooms will play in sync (there's a minor caveat here, they won't be in sync when using the TV line in, but when streaming music, they will be.)
Which means yes, the Sub will still play programming sent to the Family room, as will the PLAYBAR, when the TV room is grouped .
Thanks for the explanation. Two questions about the minor caveat you mentioned:
1) Does the term "TV line in" refer to the Toslink connection between TV and Playbar?
2) My "TV Room" (Playbar) and "Family Room" (Play:5 stereo pair) are now grouped, Does your caveat mean that TV audio directed to the Playbar and Play:5s will always be out of sync?
CC
1) Does the term "TV line in" refer to the Toslink connection between TV and Playbar?
2) My "TV Room" (Playbar) and "Family Room" (Play:5 stereo pair) are now grouped, Does your caveat mean that TV audio directed to the Playbar and Play:5s will always be out of sync?
CC
1) Yes. I'm always a bit nervous when I use the term "music", as many people consider playing YouTube from their TV "music". Which it is....but people tend not to think of the source, line-in versus streamed. So it's one of those things I try to be careful about. Always play to the larger audience :)
2) Yes, unfortunately so. Now I need to be pedantic yet again. The way that the Sonos system is designed is that there's a buffer built in to the software for any data carried on the 2.4Ghz channel, which is the normal channel that the Sonos uses to connect room to room, and to your router. This delay is, as near as I can tell, in order for a) the signal to be converted from analog to digital in most cases, and more importantly b) to buffer the data so that it can be played in sync on all "rooms" at the same time.
Now, you may ask how the surround and sub aren't subjected to that delay when they're bonded to the PLAYBAR. The fact is that the bonding is not on a 2.4Ghz channel, but a much more low latency 5Ghz channel. So they play in sync with the PLAYBAR. And, the data from your TV is coming in as a digital signal already, so there's no delay in changing it from a analog signal.
But, when the data from the PLAYBAR is being sent from the room that the PLAYBAR is in, it has to go over to use the 2.4Ghz signal, which puts it in the area where the software has to buffer it, so it can play in sync on the other speakers.
Hope that made some sense. If you've got questions, ask away.
2) Yes, unfortunately so. Now I need to be pedantic yet again. The way that the Sonos system is designed is that there's a buffer built in to the software for any data carried on the 2.4Ghz channel, which is the normal channel that the Sonos uses to connect room to room, and to your router. This delay is, as near as I can tell, in order for a) the signal to be converted from analog to digital in most cases, and more importantly b) to buffer the data so that it can be played in sync on all "rooms" at the same time.
Now, you may ask how the surround and sub aren't subjected to that delay when they're bonded to the PLAYBAR. The fact is that the bonding is not on a 2.4Ghz channel, but a much more low latency 5Ghz channel. So they play in sync with the PLAYBAR. And, the data from your TV is coming in as a digital signal already, so there's no delay in changing it from a analog signal.
But, when the data from the PLAYBAR is being sent from the room that the PLAYBAR is in, it has to go over to use the 2.4Ghz signal, which puts it in the area where the software has to buffer it, so it can play in sync on the other speakers.
Hope that made some sense. If you've got questions, ask away.
I understand. Thanks for the explanation. Suppose I want to send TV audio to my Play:5s and Sub. What about this hypothetical:
1. Same room setup as discussed above.
2. Bond the Sub to the Play:5 room instead of the Playbar room.
3. Turn on TV and set Playbar volume to zero.
Would this be the result: TV audio plays on the Play:5s and the Sub but is out of sync with the TV video? Would step 2 be necessary to achieve this?
CC
1. Same room setup as discussed above.
2. Bond the Sub to the Play:5 room instead of the Playbar room.
3. Turn on TV and set Playbar volume to zero.
Would this be the result: TV audio plays on the Play:5s and the Sub but is out of sync with the TV video? Would step 2 be necessary to achieve this?
CC
Yes, the Sub would be in sync with the PLAY:5s, and they'd be out of lipsync with the TV set. At that point, you're just sending the TV audio from one "room" to another, and have to pay the 70ms delay inherent in the software.
The way the system was designed, back in what, 2001? requires that delay to exist. It's the basis of the ability for all "rooms" to play together.
The way the system was designed, back in what, 2001? requires that delay to exist. It's the basis of the ability for all "rooms" to play together.
As I understand the Sonos architecture, the 70ms buffer delay is a key design consideration and probably cannot be eliminated. What about an option to add a 70ms delay to TV audio directed to the Soundbar? This option might take the form of (in order of personal preference): 1) a Soundbar setting in the Sonos app, or 2) a "black box" into which the Toslink cable is plugged, or 3) a switch setting on the Soundbar.
I know this option would put the Soundbar TV audio out of sync with the TV video, just as TV audio now is out of sync with Sonos players connected wirelessly. In my testing the the audio mismatch is pronounced while the video mismatch is barely noticeable, and so I believe this option would be a reasonable compromise.
I know this option would put the Soundbar TV audio out of sync with the TV video, just as TV audio now is out of sync with Sonos players connected wirelessly. In my testing the the audio mismatch is pronounced while the video mismatch is barely noticeable, and so I believe this option would be a reasonable compromise.
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