Hi everyone,
Fairly new to the community but not new to Sonos. Been using it for a while and loving what it lets me do. I've got two play 1s, a play 5 and a playbar and just want more!
I'm massively into my music and have recently been missing the physical nature of having CDs/Vinyl that I can call my own. With this in mind I've been doing lots of research into turntables and have whittled my choices down to three. Pro-ject Debut Carbon, Rega RP1 (w. Performance Pack) and the Audio Technica LP120. I know the first two are supposed to have better sound quality but having read on here that I'd need a phono pre-amp between either of the first two and the Play 5 but wouldn't have that issue if i went with the third one as it already has one built in.
Since reading that I've then come across a number of places where people seem to be saying they have wired their PDCs directly into the play 5 without a pre-amp and have then just turned the 'line-in' volume up to the max. They are all very positive about this in terms of sound level/quality and it has me wondering whether I need to worry about a pre-amp as it's that bit that is preventing me going for the more expensive Debut Carbon.
Can anyone give me some advice? As you might have guessed I'm new to all of this and might sound like an idiot - just want to make sure I get it right and get best value for my money!
Sonos and Turntables
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Once I got used to the convenience of music play via Sonos, I sold my TT and vinyl collection. Some time thereafter, I boxed and stored my ripped CDs and sold the CDP.
Are you sure you need for the physical can't be met by a CDP? You may soon get tired of the short play time vinyl and the associated ritual every 15-20 minutes.
AFAIK, there has to be a phono amp somewhere in the signal path between the TT cartridge and the line in jack on Sonos kit. I never used my TT on Sonos, and I am sure someone that has will give a more qualified answer.
Are you sure you need for the physical can't be met by a CDP? You may soon get tired of the short play time vinyl and the associated ritual every 15-20 minutes.
AFAIK, there has to be a phono amp somewhere in the signal path between the TT cartridge and the line in jack on Sonos kit. I never used my TT on Sonos, and I am sure someone that has will give a more qualified answer.
Thanks Kumar, I do get what you're saying. I've wondered about the short play times and did um and ah between CD and Vinyl - something physical also appeals as I'm a believer in paying for music and have a bit of a struggle with the streaming systems and their approach to paying artists. I know they don't get much more from a CD/Vinyl but it feels a bit fairer to me :)
When you say a CDP are you talking a CD Player or something else?
When you say a CDP are you talking a CD Player or something else?
I've only seen a single post that claims to use a TT without a pre-amp. The vast majority of original forum posts about problems with turntables were due to the lack of a pre-amp. In short, except for that one post, history states that a pre-amp is very much needed for a turntable connected to Sonos.
When you say a CDP are you talking a CD Player or something else?
Yes, CDP = CD player.
There is a via media between streaming and CDs - I have a lot of music bought on iTunes, almost as much as my ripped CDs, on my server. I am sure that the artistes get the same amount via that sale compared to the sale of the CD. If anyone is the loser, it probably is the recording companies, and I don't feel sorry for them.
Hi Jgatie, sorry am posting across two different posts now. I'd read similar from someone on Reddit and in another forum about TTs more specifically. Think I'll stick to assuming that I need a pre-amp rather than risk it!
Bad idea! Don't assume, do the right thing. If you feed the output of a TT that has a pre amp into an external phono pre amp you buy just to be sure, you will destroy it with an over voltage.
Ask your dealer, if he can't tell you, you should not be buying the TT from there.
Bad idea! Don't assume, do the right thing. If you feed the output of a TT that has a pre amp into an external phono pre amp you buy just to be sure, you will destroy it with an over voltage.
Ask your dealer, if he can't tell you, you should not be buying the TT from there.
I'm not sure the poster is questioning whether his TT has an internal pre-amp, I think he is questioning whether any pre-amp (internal or external) is needed for Sonos. I'm pretty sure the recent thread by a person claiming he didn't need a pre-amp is confusing some.
A preamp is required, either built into the turntable or inserted into the chain. In addition to being very small, the raw signal emitted from the cartridge MUST be equalized in a specific manor or it will sound over rich in treble and starved for bass. The whole record pressing and playback process is built around this pre cutting and complimentary post playback equalization. More details are available on Wikipedia.
Thanks both - jgatie is correct. I am asking whether I need a pre-amp at all, internal or external. I'm clear on which turntables I want to decide between and also clear on which have and have not got built in pre-amps. I think jgatie is also correct in that - up until I read these confusing posts from the minority seemingly suggesting they didn't need a pre-amp at all - I had assumed I would need one.
I'll continue with decision making process between the three TTs I can't decide between and see where I get to.
I'll continue with decision making process between the three TTs I can't decide between and see where I get to.
Sonos input is line level. Very few turntables have built in preamps, and are usually of low quality if they do.
The old console stereos used "crystal" cartridges, that could be used without a preamp, as they put out enough voltage. Sound quality is poor, however. Very low end turntables, like Crosley, still use these. Avoid them, they are junk, and use very heavy tracking force that will soon destroy your records.
The two primary types (there are many others) of cartridge for HiFi are Moving Magnet (MM) and Moving Coil (MC). Most common is the MM type, which requires a "standard" preamp. The MC type puts out far less voltage, and requires either a Step Up Transformer (SUT) to bring it up to MM level, or a special high gain, low noise preamp.
Audiophiles love all the exotica, complexity and exclusivity of vinyl playback, despite the fact that it is technically far less capable than digital reproduction. It's a hobby, which can be quite time consuming. Nothing wrong with that.
The old console stereos used "crystal" cartridges, that could be used without a preamp, as they put out enough voltage. Sound quality is poor, however. Very low end turntables, like Crosley, still use these. Avoid them, they are junk, and use very heavy tracking force that will soon destroy your records.
The two primary types (there are many others) of cartridge for HiFi are Moving Magnet (MM) and Moving Coil (MC). Most common is the MM type, which requires a "standard" preamp. The MC type puts out far less voltage, and requires either a Step Up Transformer (SUT) to bring it up to MM level, or a special high gain, low noise preamp.
Audiophiles love all the exotica, complexity and exclusivity of vinyl playback, despite the fact that it is technically far less capable than digital reproduction. It's a hobby, which can be quite time consuming. Nothing wrong with that.
+21Here you go... based on the Rega RP1 http://www.flexson.com/stores/single_product_view.do?pubID=8595&itemID=903497
+22I just hooked up my 1980's vintage record player to my Play:5. Even with Line in turned to its highest setting of 10 and the volume on the Play:5 turned to maximum - the sound output from the record player was very low volume (I would say equal to about 20% on the volume setting for normal music being played).
Yep, and without the RIAA equalization that a phono preamp provides, the frequency response will be way wrong, too.
Audiophiles love all the exotica, complexity and exclusivity of vinyl playback, despite the fact that it is technically far less capable than digital reproduction. It's a hobby, which can be quite time consuming. Nothing wrong with that.
Agreed. And the TT has visible precision engineering, including the nifty damped lever that many like Rega have to lower the stylus into the groove as just one example. Everything about digital systems is hidden from view.
I had to give up on it because I wasn't up to the concentrated effort needed every 20 minutes or so, especially after a couple of whiskies, when precise movement was a challenge!
+1I really don't see the issue a phono pre amp of good quality is not costing a fortune.
I would say it's about 10-15% of the Rega RP1 with the performance pack
kind reagards
agron
I would say it's about 10-15% of the Rega RP1 with the performance pack
kind reagards
agron
If your receiver is connected to the PLAY:5's input using a line level signal (like a tape out), and the turntable is connected to the receiver's phono input, then yes, it should be just fine. At that point, the receiver is actually acting as the "pre-amp" for the turntable.
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