I recently purchased a used ZP100 which has the dim LED problem. It is well out of warrantee, and the "Void if removed" sticker has been removed by the previous owner. I contacted Sonos support due to another problem (which was sorted, and they were very helpful). When I brought up the issue of the dim LED (a common problem with the early ZP100's I believe) I was told that parts are not available, and seeing it has been opened, they would not even look at it!!!!
This is the response:
"Although the ZP100 was out of warrently, Sonos still supports most legacy Components, including the ZP100. Where for a fraction of the original cost the ZP100 would be repaired or replaced. However, unfortunately because the ZP100 was opened, it is no longer eligible for this repair or replacement. Because Sonos does offer legacy support for its Components, we do not sell parts externally for refurbishment or repair. Please feel free to contact us with any further questions you may have regarding your Sonos Components"
I have checked the policies on the Sonos website, and cannot find anything about "supporting legacy components" and fail to see how this gives them the right to refuse to sell parts, or repair at a reasonable cost.
Very disappointed .
Fraser
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I have checked the policies on the Sonos website, and cannot find anything about "supporting legacy components" and fail to see how this gives them the right to refuse to sell parts, or repair at a reasonable cost.
Regrettable, but is there any other mass market manufacturer these days that does better?
In the specialist audio market, a few companies like Quad do a much better job. Quad I know will give service from its UK facility to even 40 year old kit, to bring it back to original performance levels. But even in that market, this is rare. Kit needs to designed for this, using non specialised parts that can be replaced in future.
In markets such as where Sonos plays, use and throw away is the thinking that prevails. Sonos does better than most in at least looking after backward compatibility to a good degree.
Like I said, regrettable trend everywhere today.
I understand what you are saying Kumar, but I disagree, I own 2 Kenwood Chef's (another "high-end" consumer device, and parts are readily available all the way back to the first models). Most consumer electronics manufacturers have approved service providers who will supply parts for repair. If you need a specific board for a Sony TV, it can be easily sourced through a Sony agent. Miele machines, Yamaha professional audio equipment etc, all provide parts. But Sonos have given me NO options, even If I am happy to pay???? And to repair a KNOWN DESIGN FAULT!!!
I'm hoping they will come to the party on this, as this attitude is not what I would expect from a company that is proud of it's products and support.
One thing I forgot to mention is that I'm a computer Tecnician at a large school, and I'm responsible for the Maint and repair of 1200+ Laptops and Tablets from HP, Lenovo, and ACER, and all the parts/boards are available for me to fit in all of them.
Let this be a lesson to those considering opening their Sonos's!
Fraser
I'm hoping they will come to the party on this, as this attitude is not what I would expect from a company that is proud of it's products and support.
One thing I forgot to mention is that I'm a computer Tecnician at a large school, and I'm responsible for the Maint and repair of 1200+ Laptops and Tablets from HP, Lenovo, and ACER, and all the parts/boards are available for me to fit in all of them.
Let this be a lesson to those considering opening their Sonos's!
Fraser
Let this be a lesson to those considering opening their Sonos's!
I take your point that there are some noble exceptions - and the professional market players would be different too, indeed for them service income would be a profitable business if the original equipment is sold via competitive bidding.
But to the quoted part above, even if your unit was not opened, there would not be a solution if the part isn't available - the box being opened was just a good excuse?
But to the quoted part above, even if your unit was not opened, there would not be a solution if the part isn't available - the box being opened was just a good excuse?
Possibly, but I have a feeling the part is readily available, it's a little sub-board with the led's and mute/volume switches, probably worth $4, but I would have paid $50 just to get it all working perfectly, as I love the ZP100, but it annoys me that the white led doesn't work.
On a side note, on opening my ZP100, I was VERY impressed with the design, the way the passive cooling works via the whole case is lovely! And the use of a toroidal transformer is nice too.
Fraser
Spares are widely available for most electrical appliances, either through certified tradesmen, or direct to the public.
Yes some companies are now in the mindset of break & replace, rather than break & fix, however these are getting less, due to the environmental lobby and the desire of companies to appear green.
SONOS needs to wake up.
Yes some companies are now in the mindset of break & replace, rather than break & fix, however these are getting less, due to the environmental lobby and the desire of companies to appear green.
SONOS needs to wake up.
Sorry, a failing LED is not a "known design fault" (in capitals or not), it might be a known issue but it's a dying part (LEDs don't last forever), not a design fault, don't exaggerate.
And if that's all it is then it'll probably be a lot cheaper just to source the part online and get a local electrician to replace it for you, hardly seems worth the effort (never mind the cost) of sending it back to Sonos for something any competent sparky could do in about 15 minutes.
Haven't heard that word in a while - can you still find young examples in the UK?!
I expect that depends on your definition of "young"...
Without grey hair?
And if that's all it is then it'll probably be a lot cheaper just to source the part online and get a local electrician to replace it for you, hardly seems worth the effort (never mind the cost) of sending it back to Sonos for something any competent sparky could do in about 15 minutes.
Sorry the_lhc, but it's known that the early LED's were over-driven, and therefore burned out far quicker than they should have, so by definition it is a design fault.
Secondly, I'd love to meet a Sparky that can replace unknown spec Surface-mount components on a very small PCB.
I'd love to source the part if I had a part number.
But I'd still need to buy some kit to do the surface mount repairs, and my eyes are not that good.
All this is moot, I just wanted my Sonos repaired, and was willing to pay an approved service provider, and was told "no".
I don't think this is good enough for a beautifully designed bit of kit that is much more advanced than your typical piece of audio equipment.
Fraser
maninblack_30,
The number of users equipped to deal with surface mount component repair is relatively small. From a business plan viewpoint, it is difficult to justify developing and maintaining staff and inventory to support this small number of customers. If this function truly supports itself, the cost of replacement parts must be jacked up to the point where this generates complaints and ill will. That $0.02 LED suddenly becomes very expensive if a staff person must spend an hour or two holding someone's hand. And the shipping and handling will dwarf the manufacturing costs.
I've had conversations with consumer electronics factory service personnel and there were amusing anecdotes about units that came in for service. In some cases the unit had been modified by know-it-all types who felt that they had better qualifications than the design engineer. It is not practical to repair such a unit because one must pick through it piece by piece and trace by trace in order to remove the modifications. Plus, one must then worry that a component that appears to be correct, but has been damaged internally by a series of trials by the consumer. Depending on the complexity of the unit, this picking through process can eat days of time. Unless the unit has some high nostalgic value, no one can justify spending the effort to deal with this type of unit.
As a hobby, the consumer might not mind spending a few hours, days, or weeks with a unit, but it is not likely that the consumer would be willing to pay a professional a fair wage to spend that time. I think that manufacturers are justified in turning away units that might have been the victim of unauthorized service.
The number of users equipped to deal with surface mount component repair is relatively small. From a business plan viewpoint, it is difficult to justify developing and maintaining staff and inventory to support this small number of customers. If this function truly supports itself, the cost of replacement parts must be jacked up to the point where this generates complaints and ill will. That $0.02 LED suddenly becomes very expensive if a staff person must spend an hour or two holding someone's hand. And the shipping and handling will dwarf the manufacturing costs.
I've had conversations with consumer electronics factory service personnel and there were amusing anecdotes about units that came in for service. In some cases the unit had been modified by know-it-all types who felt that they had better qualifications than the design engineer. It is not practical to repair such a unit because one must pick through it piece by piece and trace by trace in order to remove the modifications. Plus, one must then worry that a component that appears to be correct, but has been damaged internally by a series of trials by the consumer. Depending on the complexity of the unit, this picking through process can eat days of time. Unless the unit has some high nostalgic value, no one can justify spending the effort to deal with this type of unit.
As a hobby, the consumer might not mind spending a few hours, days, or weeks with a unit, but it is not likely that the consumer would be willing to pay a professional a fair wage to spend that time. I think that manufacturers are justified in turning away units that might have been the victim of unauthorized service.
Buzz,
Thanks for your comments.
I agree completely with everything you say.
My disappointment is based on the fact that because a previous owner opened an out of warrantee device, the current owner (me) cannot get a known fault repaired.
Sonos won't provide a solution at any cost
My unit is not modified in any way, is functioning perfectly except for the status LED.
The LED is part of a small printed circuit board that would take me 7 mins to replace, and I don't expect Sonos to be responsible if replacing the board is unsuccessful.
I'm wondering if maybe the "known Fault" is on the mainboard of the unit, and replacing the small sub-board would only be a temporary fix.
Fraser
Thanks for your comments.
I agree completely with everything you say.
My disappointment is based on the fact that because a previous owner opened an out of warrantee device, the current owner (me) cannot get a known fault repaired.
Sonos won't provide a solution at any cost
My unit is not modified in any way, is functioning perfectly except for the status LED.
The LED is part of a small printed circuit board that would take me 7 mins to replace, and I don't expect Sonos to be responsible if replacing the board is unsuccessful.
I'm wondering if maybe the "known Fault" is on the mainboard of the unit, and replacing the small sub-board would only be a temporary fix.
Fraser
maninblack_30,
I have a couple of "dim" ZP100's. I think that the issue was a combination of poorly a spec'd LED and a run of bad LED's. I haven't disassembled a ZP100 to examine the LED detail, but I agree that the current limiting resistor is likely on the main board. (It's possible that this LED is not surface mounted) But, this is a minor detail because you could add a new resistor if required.
I have a couple of "dim" ZP100's. I think that the issue was a combination of poorly a spec'd LED and a run of bad LED's. I haven't disassembled a ZP100 to examine the LED detail, but I agree that the current limiting resistor is likely on the main board. (It's possible that this LED is not surface mounted) But, this is a minor detail because you could add a new resistor if required.
I have a couple of "dim" ZP100's. I think that the issue was a combination of poorly a spec'd LED and a run of bad LED's. I haven't disassembled a ZP100 to examine the LED detail, but I agree that the current limiting resistor is likely on the main board. (It's possible that this LED is not surface mounted) But, this is a minor detail because you could add a new resistor if required.
Buzz, the LED's are surface mount, and I'm pretty sure the resistors are on the mainboard.
I only had a cursory look.
I guess eventually I'll just meter the voltage across it and get a replacement LED and suitable resistor and "have a crack at it"
I was hoping for a quicker, simpler result (that Sonos would come to the party)
I've never experienced a situation where if you voided your warrantee after it expired, you had no repair options!
Fraser
maninblack_30,
SONOS is firm and out front with their policy, others will quietly do the same by first inspecting the unit and, after discovering the layman attempt at repair, quietly give an estimate high enough to (hopefully) discourage the repair option. In this context "layman" means anyone not inside the manufacturer's own design/repair team -- it's not a comment about the technical prowess of the outside of the factory loop person.
After you deal with the dim LED issue, please post back and give the details of your resolution. This will save others some time.
Note to everyone as you work on these units, be aware of the antennas in the feet and the use of heatsink compound. Also, don't connect a common ground to the black speaker terminals. These units were not designed to be disassembled by individuals outside of the factory loop, but if you dig around a bit, you can discover pictures and discussions.
SONOS is firm and out front with their policy, others will quietly do the same by first inspecting the unit and, after discovering the layman attempt at repair, quietly give an estimate high enough to (hopefully) discourage the repair option. In this context "layman" means anyone not inside the manufacturer's own design/repair team -- it's not a comment about the technical prowess of the outside of the factory loop person.
After you deal with the dim LED issue, please post back and give the details of your resolution. This will save others some time.
Note to everyone as you work on these units, be aware of the antennas in the feet and the use of heatsink compound. Also, don't connect a common ground to the black speaker terminals. These units were not designed to be disassembled by individuals outside of the factory loop, but if you dig around a bit, you can discover pictures and discussions.
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