Feature Request - Negative delay for Sonos Port

Hi ​@PhAzE 

Welcome to the Sonos Community!

Thank you - I've marked this thread as a feature request and it will be seen by the relevant teams for consideration. Keep the ideas coming!

Please note, however, that for the reasons listed above, and for others, I think this very unlikely. It’s not up to me, of course, so your feedback will be passed on.

One point that was not previously mentioned is the use case where there are multiple ports/3rd party amps in the system, where each amp has a separate delay.  In order to achieve actual sync across the whole system, you would need the non- port speakers in the system to delay to the lowest common denominator delay, and each Port delay corresponding to the particular amp they were connected to.  Or, have the amps add delay if that’s an option.  It can get complicated rather quickly.

That said though, if Sonos were to do this, I think it would be better  to have delays in the system set regardless of any current grouping.  In that manner, you would not getting any skipping when the group membership changes.  

I was actually coming to post that second point today funny enough. Yes, making it a system wide permanent delay would eliminate the skip/jump versus doing it dynamically.

For setups with multiple ports, there would need to be a bit of calculation involved. Say you have 3 ports with these delays set:

Port 1: 80ms

Port 2: 120ms

Port 3: 35ms

The system would need to add the largest delay of 120ms to all speakers, but the other ports would only get max delay minus their delay to keep them all in sync.

Port 1: 120ms - 80ms = 40ms delay added

Port 2: 120ms - 120ms = 0ms delay added

Port 3: 120ms - 35ms = 85ms delay added

Non Port speakers: 120ms delay added

Agreed.  Lowest common denominator.

How would you handle cases where the 3rd party amp is actually the audio source for the Sonos system, not just the sink?  Your non port speakers are now 120ms, in addition to the normal line in delay (60 ms),  behind the amp that is the source, or 180 ms.  If the line in source is on port 2 you’re actual needed delay time is going to be the new ‘slowest’ port + the line in delay, or 85 ms + 60 ms = 145 ms.  Maybe that doesn’t matter to you, but since the line in source is often going to be acompanied by video, it matters to many.

Given the absence of tape-loops and/or line-level outputs (not a pre-out) on modern systems that becomes a problem.

If Sonos were to do this, make it a premium feature available as a monetised subscription for the very few consumers with specific use cases and deep pockets. I personally would not want to pay more (to cover development costs) for a product that has features I don’t use.

BTW - I noticed the Amp Multi has a ProTune feature:

ProTune offers a full suite of manual controls, including a 10-band parametric EQ plus adjustable gain and delay offsets, enabling truly bespoke audio experiences.

Maybe a Port Multi at some point for Installer market at somepoint?

So, im a little confused on the setup you’re describing here. You would have an AMP pushing an audio source for a TV into the Sonos environment through a port, that then plays on other ports and speakers and still needs to sync video to multiple TVs?  Or is this like syncing to a TV in your living room and having audio sync in other rooms where you can only hear the TV audio?

If there is a mandatory 60ms input delay on the line in of the port, would your video already not by synced right from the get go as it is today? Like, in that setup, the only way to truly sync video across multople rooms and across multiple sonos speakers would be to have delay added to the video stream, because i see no other way even as it stands today to sync it up if the port line in has a 60ms delay already.

Edit: Keep in mind that leaving the port delays at 0 (the default) everything would function exactly as it does today.

Why would this need to be an extra cost? How exactly would you have pay for a new feature like this, some kind of back bill on products you’ve already bought?

A software feature like this wouldn’t require a price increase or anything, companies update their software all the time as a regualr part of business, including bug fixes and new features.

No, not multiple TVs, but yes, syncing audio in other rooms.  Keep in mind that we are talking Sonos rooms, which are not necessarily the same as physical room. .  For some the 60 ms delay between 2 speakers is not that noticeable to some, but a 145 ms delay would be.  

It is already delayed, yes.  However many are ok with a 60 second delay.  It’s not uncommon for people to post on here that they connect their TV via line to a Sonos speaker, and are quite happy with it.  When you increase that delay, it’s unlikely anyone will be ok with it.

Pretty much yes, but that’s only the goal  if you’re looking for perfect sync and not just good enough for my human ears.  And for any Sonos case, controlling the video stream isn’t an option.  I guess the overall point is that in the quest for perfect sync, it’s entirely possible that you make synced audio worse, particularly when you don’t have control of all the sources.

Considering the bolded above is about as close as a Sonos rep ever gets to saying something isn’t going to happen, any further discourse on this request is probably moot. 

so in those cases, just leave the setting at 0 and it will function as it does now. without video delay it'll never sync up perfectly to the video, and this setting wouldn't adjust for that situation. Leaving the port delay at 0 would leave overall delay in that instance at 60ms still.

I have a NAD Amp, that has Dirac room correction, Even though it has BluOS I added a SONOS Port to the Optical In so I could use SONOS with it and group it with my other speakers.

Since the digital in of the AMP takes time to do processing there is a massive echo when I group speakers together. No option to turn off processing at all.

Sonosequencer has the ability to add a delay to any SONOS product, So I add a delay to all of the other speakers and it gets very close, but it only allows a numbered delay of 1 though 5. 

If the delay was in ms it would be better.

The solution though is to add a negative delay to the PORT.