Connect no longer bit-perfect?

It looks like the Connect is no longer bit-perfect. Here's my evidence: let's discuss this.

First, I constructed a wav file of pink noise with amplitude ramping up from zero to digital max and back to zero.

I play this through my Connect and record the SPDIF output from the coax output into my PC.

The recording uses a Scarlett 8i6 audio interface set to use the Connect as master clock.

I record into a DAW (Sonar) multiple times - all instances are identical.

However, this recorded signal is not quite the same as the original wav file - it can be up to -21dB different.

See https://www.dropbox.com/s/t8od479xo9hi5el/connect_diff.PNG?dl=1

Note the expanded scale on the difference (third) track.

It looks like the difference gets larger when the signal is larger. To confirm this, I import the

original and difference files into Matlab and plot the raw data (difference vs original). There is clearly audio compression

happening here. See https://www.dropbox.com/s/p1yq6wcqafvnhaj/diff_vs_orig.png?dl=1

The scale is such that digital maximum is 1.

There also appears to be a slight bias when the waveform is negative and the signal is below the

compression threshold. See an expanded version of the previous plot

https://www.dropbox.com/s/9001tl9mkle4wly/diff_vs_orig_zoom.png?dl=1

Happy to answer questions about the method and conclusions.

Cheers, Peter.

p.s. Volume is set to fixed - I haven't tried variable.

In a loopback test (8i6 out from DAW to 8i6 in, no Sonos gear involved), I get bit-perfect cancellation.

Page 18 / 19

Sigh. Glad I could give you a laugh! :8

Here’s something even more laughable. A search of “Roon” reveals it has been mentioned in 17 discussions in this community. Spotify, 1156. In what world does this represent “constant pimping of Roon”?

Sigh. Glad I could give you a laugh! :8

You want to hear something even more laughable? Of those mentions of Roon, I commented negatively on it only once, in a post where it, along with Hi-res and Plex, were all very off-topic to the actual thread title, which was simply asking what kind of NAS to get.

So much for your "fanboi" who gets "quite upset when a Roon is mentioned" theory. Seems the only over-sensitive one here is you. 😃

Sigh. Glad I could give you a laugh! :8

I participated in the discussion to which you refer, last week. I mentioned Roon as an an adjunct to what was being discussed, with the intention of being helpful to the original poster. I also mentioned that Roon has the added advantage of allowing higher resolution files to be played in Sonos. You were the only one to get his knickers in a twist over it. In fact you voiced your umbrage twice and rambled on about an “agenda.” ("another case of a poster shoehorning their off-topic agenda into yet another thread"). You just can’t tolerate it when a conversation doesn’t go exactly the way you think it should, can you? Sometimes a discussion is just a discussion, without any agenda, malice or subterfuge intended. That was one of those discussions. However, you seem to think evil lurks everywhere. For your sake, I hope those sentiments are confined to this group. I doubt that anyone is interested, but they can find the discussion here. https://en.community.sonos.com/music-services-and-sources-228994/streaming-from-nas-drive-6794656

So now a single complaint against a mention of several off-topic items is me getting "quite upset when a Roon is mentioned". I never commented on Roon specifically. Ever. I have nothing at all against Roon. In that post, I actually specifically referred to high resolution "above Redbook" audio, which is a separate issue from Roon. I also never even commented on your mention of Roon here, but you felt the need to bring me up. So I think we all know who's knickers are actually twisted.

And now it is time to thank you for the laugh! 😃

I never commented on Roon specifically. Ever.

So the person who earlier today wrote “It's not Roon I'm against, it is the constant pimping of Roon in threads where it most certainly does not apply” is a different jgatie?

I never commented on Roon specifically. Ever.

So the person who earlier today wrote “It's not Roon I'm against, it is the constant pimping of Roon in threads where it most certainly does not apply” is a different jgatie?

Nice stripping of context, did you think I wouldn't notice? The statement was about before today. You specifically commented that I become "quite upset when a Roon is mentioned". As stated, I never commented anything about Roon before this thread, I only mentioned above Redbook. Even if you do count today's post as mentioning Roon, I made no comment on Roon itself, I specifically said I have nothing against it. Real harsh criticism there. I'm a real Roon hater. :8

Gentlemen, we appreciate a good discussion, however you're taking it a bit too far here.

Can we get this topic back on track, please? 🙂

All the best,

Ditte

Be careful. One of the frequently posting Sonos fanbois here gets quite upset when a Roon is mentioned. He believes any mention of a Roon to be a “hidden agenda.” Oddly, he seems to have nothing against any other apps that permit direct control of Sonos speakers, including Spotify and Tidal. But you’re right, music played through Roon sounds great on Sonos, with the added plus that Roon will downsample higher-bit-rate files that normally won’t play on Sonos.

It's not Roon I'm against, it is the constant pimping of Roon in threads where it most certainly does not apply. I would say the same about any other product constantly shoehorned into threads where nobody asks about it. Also, use of the term "fanboi"considered insulting and abusive, and often leads to having your posts edited by the mods. Everyone is entitled to their opinion without being subject to personal attacks or use of derogatory terms.

Haha, wonderful.

I popped in to see how this thread was going, and this was the first page I looked it.

jgatie, you do realise you are quite famous on many of the hifi forums.

We had a bit of a meet up the other month, and when somewhere asked "Are there any down sides to going Sonos as source?" Someone replied "Yeah, you have to listen to people like jgatie on their forums!"

That tickled a few us.

I'm sure you're a nice enough lad, maybe try and reign it in a bit, some people in life will like different things to you, accept it and you will feel much happier in life.

I am running Roon with a Raspberry Pi and a Meridian Explorer 2 as my dac pre amp. Stunning, really, really stunning.

£133 as well!

It replaced my Meridian MS600 and Croft Pre amp at £3000 which I think says a lot about just how good it sounds.

Roon is something else, I wasn't sure bout it at first, just seemed a lot, but I sold my 2 connects and paid for lifetime Roon and the 2 raspberry pi endpoints with the money.

Still think Sonos is wonderful in the way it integrates Tidal, Spotify, Soundcloud etc.

But having Airplay on the Pi along with Tidal and that wonderful interface and search of metadata means we just use the Play 5s now as Roon endpoints.

That's "rein". :8

And if that was an audiophile forum, I can think of no higher achievement than to annoy a group of audiophiles. I can now die a happy man.

jgatie, you do realise you are quite famous on many of the hifi forums.

We had a bit of a meet up the other month

In what words is Hydrogen Audio spoken of in such places?

That's "rein". :8

And if that was an audiophile forum, I can think of no higher achievement than to annoy a group of audiophiles. I can now die a happy man.

My word, my awful grammar. Must be because you're king of the forum.

From Merriam Webster

Definition of rein

1 : a strap fastened to a bit by which a rider or driver controls an animal —usually used in plural

2 a : a restraining influence : kept a tight rein on the proceedings

Also from M-W

Definition of rein in

1 : to limit or control (someone or something) Congress must rein in spending. You had better rein that kid in before she gets hurt.

2 : to make (an animal) stop by using reins The rider reined in his horse.

@gizze, we appreciate the engagement, but let's cool it on the personal attacks.

Everyone, we're way off course right now, let's bring it back on topic.

My word, my awful grammar. Must be because you're king of the forum.

That reign vs rein bit made me lol.

Personal attack, where?

@gizze, we appreciate the engagement, but let's cool it on the personal attacks.

Everyone, we're way off course right now, let's bring it back on topic.

What personal attacks?

Your forum favourite, jgatie, is one of the reasons many can't be bothered with posting on this forum, but you protect him.

How about you take a look at my post asking for help on an issue?

https://en.community.sonos.com/troubleshooting-228999/distortion-since-last-update-on-play-5-and-on-connect-amp-6763208

I would say calling someone out publically on the community as "the reason people don't come here" is a personal attack, don't you agree? Even if you don't, I think we can all agree that it has nothing to do with the conversation around the CONNECT"s audio playback abilties in this ~440 reply thread. I'd be happy to discuss this in private if you'd like, but for the sake of everyone who keeps coming to this thread due to getting email updates, let's stay on topic.

As to the thread you posted, if you're still having that issue, I'd say it's best to give us a call on our support line and work with a technician on it. It'd be easier to figure out what "distortion" means, and determine if it's due to a hardware issue or something else.

Tunesmap looks far more interesting than Roon. It’s clearly being marketed to music lovers, while Roon seems more oriented to the delusional audiophile tweakers. Naturally, it will require Sonos.

https://mobile.nytimes.com/2017/09/29/business/media/tunesmap-liner-notes.html

Missed this, very interesting thanks chicks.

For this mean the original circa 2010 zp90 commands a higher resale value?? ?

I would not buy one for a higher price - but you can try your luck to see if you can find an audiophile that believes.

Unless the refresh of the Sonos Connect - a new Connect appeared in the FCC database back in April last year - happens to also have a return to bit-perfect?

The known difference between this new Connect and any existing versions is the wireless card... which is what would have required updated FCC records. Other changes could have been made as well. Whether this new Connect is even available yet is unknown.

I was referring only to paying a higher price for a 2010 made zp90 as opposed to say, a 2017 made Connect, in the used market - something I would not even dream of doing if I was in the market as a buyer. A brand new model Connect would of course be evaluated on other features as well, to decide a buy at the price asked.

I doubt there is any other change beyond volume normalisation, and this can be defeated on your own collection by removing any volume normalisation tags if you really don't want it.

Note that you can't remove tags from music from streaming services.

So, the sky isn't falling in for most people as there are workarounds. It is, however (IMO) clumsy of Sonos to require people to have to use those workarounds.

It would also be much better if Sonos actually implemented a complete solution for volume normalisation as most people would be happy with having it, if it worked properly. The complaint here is that the Sonos implementation of volume normalisation is partly broken and there is no easy way to disable it.

Cheers,

Keith

I've been following a few of these threads over the past several years. I also use a Connect, and have it connected to an Arcam D33 DAC.

It would definitely be beneficial if Sonos implemented a "defeat" switch for the Normalization process. But based on their target market for these products and the fact that people are streaming from the "cloud" it prob won't occur.

I made sure that I did not use any software that added ID3 Normalization tags. Seems to be a simple solution if you are somebody that is so concerned about audio quality.

Any chance this will get resolved?

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