Zp 24/96


  • Anonymous
  • 0 replies
Ability to play 24bit/96 files (like the competition: slimdevices transporter)

This topic has been closed for further comments. You can use the search bar to find a similar topic, or create a new one by clicking Create Topic at the top of the page.

1012 replies

Userlevel 2
Ability to play 24bit/96 files (like the competition: slimdevices transporter)

This would be a big deal... also some confidence that new hardward will be forward compatible with other audio formats based on software updates... I'm envisioning even a "ZP80 on speed" that can handle lots of audio formats.

J
Why would it be a big deal?

There a dozens of firewire/usb computer interfaces out there that do 24/96hkz as well as all lesser formats..no problems...many for well under $750. Hifi DAC's have been supporting 24/96 for years.

This is now becoming the standard in digital audio.

Yes the files take up more disc space, but with the cost of storage plumetting and gigabit ethernet now the standard, wired networks should be able to handle 24/96 no problems. (yes some of us use wired networks!)

You can also now purchase 24/88.2 or 96hkz music on line: see linnrecords.co.uk or highdeftapetransfers.com

I'd love a way of playing these tracks on my sonos.

Also throw in a wordclock interface (like the transporter) to drop jitter...

A ZP 24/96 with wordclock ..Heaven..bring it on!

AB
Userlevel 2
can sonos please allow higher bit rates on music files? 16 bit can be too restrictive

thanks
Badge
16 bit is not the bitrate. I guess you mean the resolution.

Afaik, music on CDs is sold stored as 16-bit, only.

I'm curious. What files do you have with more than 16-bit resolution?
Userlevel 2
16 bit is not the bitrate. I guess you mean the resolution.

Afaik, music on CDs is sold stored as 16-bit, only.

I'm curious. What files do you have with more than 16-bit resolution?


SuperHD content is equivalent to that of SACD and DVD Audio. It comes in 5.1 surround sound and stereo, and is encoded at 24 bit 88kHz or higher
Userlevel 2
I have tried a modified ZP80 from Cullen Circuits, and the difference in pure sound quality is obvious to me. The soundstage is much wider, and the sound is more detailed. There is also more "air" between instruments/voices, like a curtain has been lifted..

I think I will have to buy one :)

http://www.cullencircuits.com/webapps/site/67005/78076/shopping/shopping-plus.html?find_groupid=12070

The hardware in this ZP80 is upgraded to be able to play 24/96 files, but the Sonos software does not support this?

I tried to download a record from www.linnrecords.com in Studio Master Flac quality, 24 bit/ 96 kHz but when I try to play it the Sonos controller says that that the format is not supported.

Studio Master FLAC

If absolute sound quality is what you want then this file is best for you.

FLAC files are lossless at various high bit rates, for example, 48KHz, 88.2KHz and 96KHz (check each title for actual details). The quality is identical to that of an SACD (Stereo only). The format will be dependent on the actual recording method we used originally. No DSD files are offered as it is not possible to play them back on a PC so an equivalent PCM format is offered. These files offer true "studio quality" and are what was used by Linn to produce the production version of our CD releases. Be sure to check compatibility with your computer sound card etc before you download a file and note that large amounts of storage space are required for each track.

FLAC files can be imported into many media players, such as the Linn DS digital stream player, but unfortunately Microsoft does not yet support high bit-rate FLAC, so these files will not play in Windows Media Player. There are many other FLAC players available such as Media Monkey and Foobar.

FLAC Studio Masters play in Play and VLC, but not in Cog or MPlayer. It is however very easy to transcode FLAC to several other lossless formats.

For further information about FLAC please visit the FLAC website.

Please note:
We recommend you burn a DVD-audio to create a back-up of your download purchase. Click here for instructions.
You can also play Studio Master files through your digital media receiver or in windows media player.
These files are too large to burn on to a CD and you will not be able to play these files in your CD player.

We will be adding more albums at this quality rate as they become available.
Click here for a full list of all available Studio Master albums.


http://www.linnrecords.com/linn-formats.aspx

I also tried to play the new Nine Inch Nails 24/96 album, but no. www.nin.com

This should be possible to fix with a software upgrade?

I can play the same 24/96 files om my iMac, using the music player "Play".

As far as I know this is possible using Logitech Squeezebox and Transporter, so why not Sonos?

More and more sites offer music in 24/96 format so this should be something to consider updating.

Here is just some of the sites where you can buy files in this 24/96 (or higher) format:

www.2l.no
www.linnrecords.com
http://www.highdeftapetransfers.net/
http://www.gimell.com/
www.musicgiants.com
http://www.referencerecordings.com/HRx1.asp
www.hdtracks.com 24/96 Coming soon
Userlevel 2
sonic-x,

This is very interesting these upgrades but what is the point of the upgrade if you cannot support HiRes files?
Unless obviously you are using the Internal DAC.

The only reason why I holding off buying the entire system is pretty 96khz/24b file support.
My DAC will take it with pleasure, with Sonos Net 2.0 it should also be easier to transmit the files too, because what's the point of having these HiRes files if you have a lot bigger probability of loosing the stream from your NAS half way through a track?

HiRes + Wifi = better have 802.11n!

I don't understand why they came up with this box update after 3 years?
Userlevel 2
sonic-x,

This is very interesting these upgrades but what is the point of the upgrade if you cannot support HiRes files?
Unless obviously you are using the Internal DAC.

The only reason why I holding off buying the entire system is pretty 96khz/24b file support.


The point of the upgrade is first and foremost the better sound quality from the digital output on the ZP80/90. I didnt thought it could be any difference between a regular and an upgraded ZP80, but the difference is quite amazing. The soundstage is so much wider, and details are "flowing" out of the speakers. There is much more "air" between the instruments and voices. I would never believed it unless I could A/B compared it myself. And I would never thought that such an upgrade could have such an effect on the sound quality, since I have always thought that "digital is digital" and the differences lies in the external DAC, not in the ZP80/90.

But I was hoping that maybe a firmware update could adress the problem with not playing higher bitrates/samplerates. I cannot see why the Sonos-system has such a limit, especially when Logitech and others dont.

I am not sure if a regular ZP80/90 would be able to output 24/96kHz to a DAC if the software did?

If not I think that Sonos should be making an MK2 version of the ZP90 which allows playback of high-res music.
I cannot see why the Sonos-system has such a limit, especially when Logitech and others dont.

Actually they do have a limit. The SB3 and Duet cannot play hi-sample rate files directly. They are downsampled (badly) on an external server before they are played.

Cheers,

Keith
Userlevel 2
Well, the link below says that SB can play 24 bit files, but not more than 48kHz samplerate according to this. The Transporter can play 24/96 files:

http://wiki.slimdevices.com/index.php/SqueezePlay_Audio_Playback

But this wasnt ment to be a comparison with the SB, but rather to say that more and more of Sonos "competitors" are offering this feature, and I dont understand why it should be such a limit in the Sonos? Is it the hardware, or the software? If it is the software, then it shouldnt be too hard to update. If its the hardware, then why not make another ZP90, maybe to an additional cost including the possibility to play 24/96 files :)

Linn network players as Klimax, Akurate, Majik DS and Sneaky DS can play 24/96 kHz (ok, they are not the same price range, but anyhow..):

Linn network players: http://www.linn.co.uk/digital_stream_players
T+A Network player: http://www.taelektroakustik.de/eng/index.htm
Helios network players: http://www.helios-labs.com/us/products/xline/index_xline.shtml
Olive network player: http://www.olive.us/products/opus4.html
And more to come..
BTW I don't disagree. I think playback of 24-bit files would be a great thing to have. The DAC in the ZPs is certainly (on paper) capable of supporting 24-bit audio, and the DSP looks like it should be able to support it too.

I'll mention that I've read a few comments by various people on the improved audibility of hires files. The general view seems to be that an increased bit depth can make a difference on some material on a high-end system.

The general view seems to be that increased sample rate is far less audible, if at all.

EDIT: Actually, I got this wrong. It's the other way around, but the audible effects of increased sample rate may be attributable to improved filtering, rather than the ability of the ear to hear sounds above 20kHz.

Cheers,

Keith
Userlevel 2
Hi - I've been very impressed with my Sonos kit and the quality of the sound from CD quality files streamed to my hi-fi. I've been using 16 bit 44.1kHz files but would like to be able to use higher res versions as they seem to be becoming increasingly available. I'm not a great fan of lossy file formats and there are some studio masters I would love to be able to play in their full glory.

Is there an opportunity here to make Sonos more appealing to the audiophile market by providing support for 24 bit 96kHz (WAV, FLAC)files?
Moderator's note: We moved Gar-Badger lone post into this thread in an effort to keep things tidy. The three deleted posts suddenly became extraneous comments about the move. I simply eliminated the clutter, no one has done anything wrong.
Userlevel 2
It would be a nice feature, also good for the positioning of Sonos in the High-End market.

Be better the quality of the tracks the better the sound on your equipment.

High priority?
Userlevel 2
I would just like to echo my vote for Sonos to support up to 24/96 data rates (WAV, FLEC or whatever). A good number of high-end audio players/dacs take and decode up to 24/96 data when presented to their SPDIF digital input (like the Audio Aero players I use in my home/business main system). I do understand that in the main mass market were Sonos does most of its business, there is probably not any demand for this, but I know my customers (Hi-End Audiophile geeks 🙂 ) would really dig this capability... not to mention that hires downloads are starting to become more readily available.

BTW, I did have a chance to listen to the Cullen modded ZP-80 (a customer of mine had his player modded and brought it in for a listening session - it was used to feed the DAC in a Audio Aero Prestige CD Player). I (and my customer) did not find the difference great, but there was a small worthwhile improvement... just a bit better clarity and the sound-stage seemed a bit better laid out. The Audio Aero easily locked onto and decoded the 24/96 output of the Cullen modded unit.

BTW, I did have a chance to listen to the Cullen modded ZP-80 (a customer of mine had his player modded and brought it in for a listening session - it was used to feed the DAC in a Audio Aero Prestige CD Player). I (and my customer) did not find the difference great, but there was a small worthwhile improvement... just a bit better clarity and the sound-stage seemed a bit better laid out. The Audio Aero easily locked onto and decoded the 24/96 output of the Cullen modded unit.


As your player already reclocks the signal, the gains from the cullen mod could have been expected to have been marginal. From prior postings, I've gotten the impression that the ZP80/90 benefits most from clocking enhancements, be it on the ZP side like the cullen mod, or on the other end by a reclocker or a reclocking DAC.
Userlevel 2
In my system the Cullen-mod made big improvements in sound quality :)

BTW: Now HDtracks.com has opened the 24/96kHz Store:

http://www.hdtracks.com/index.php?file=9624albums
Userlevel 2
I just purchased some albums from HDTracks 24/96 and they will not play. Error message on the Sonos Controller says:

Unable to play - it is encoded at unsupported sample rate 96000 Hz

I should've looked before leaping, darnit. Hopefully support will be added in the near future.
Until support does arrive, you can downsample to produce a compatible file, so your purchase is not a complete loss.

db
Userlevel 2
thanks DB, after reading your post I searched and found foobar. Is this the preferred tool for downsampling flac files?
Userlevel 2
It is really about time now that Sonos wakes up aupports high def formats!
Userlevel 2
or what is the maximum?
If it can play 24/48, can you re-encode 24/96 files to 24/48 and end up keeping most of the quality from the original file?
can the moded (cullen) unit play 24/96 files or the software would not allow it?
or what is the maximum?
If it can play 24/48, can you re-encode 24/96 files to 24/48 and end up keeping most of the quality from the original file?


Absolutely.

can the moded (cullen) unit play 24/96 files or the software would not allow it?


No. The main limitations are codec support (which is software) and whether the DSP has enough "grunt" to support the higher data rates.

The Collen mod doesn't touch either of these.

Cheers,

Keith
Badge +8
Hey Sonos you guys out there.. How about a new Zone Player that can support 24/96 or better.. PLEASE
Userlevel 2
I would like to be able to play 24 bit audio files through the digital out. I would think that this could probably be done with a firmware update in the zone player.