End of Software Support - Clarifications

End of Software Support - Clarifications

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Userlevel 6
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How is the solution to tell people for every $1,000 of Sonos Legacy equipment, an additional $700 will keep you good for an undetermined period of time? Who came up with that plan? Our investment in legacy products built your company. 

 

There are folks who have spent $10,000 on Sonos Equipment in here that you’re telling to go spend $7,000 now to keep using their equipment? How is this considered acceptable? Who is going to recommend your products? Again, I bought my Connect in 2017. I had no idea to check the manufactured date. Now I need a Port at 70% of the retail cost? I’ll have spent over $700 on a Connect and Port in 2 years. That’s ludicrous.  

Also mirrors my reality

Userlevel 3
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Calling in artillery on yourself, Sonos?  Welcome to someone’s business school case study of dumb management decisions. It takes years to earn customer enthusiasm for a product, and one email to turn that completely into the opposite direction. 
 

Truly amazing.
 

I have 14 products over 2 homes. My primary home has 5 out of 6 products that are affected. None are affected in the vacation home.  I was thinking about buying a Move that I could take between primary and vacation house. What happens when I drop in a product that has updates into a system has legacy equipment.

What happens if I want or need to replace a product in my legacy system?  Do products that ship later in the year cause a problem in a system laced with legacy equipment?

 

If I decide to roll the dice and not upgrade my gear, and in a year or two I need to replace a piece of hardware, will the discount still be around?  How long will it be offered? 

 

I can’t add anything that has been said already, so count me among those who are extremely upset with this news. Replacing 3 connects, 1 zone amp, and one play 5 is a check I don’t want to write. BluSound please offer a carrot to Sonos users. 

Userlevel 6
Badge +4

They just bought a Paris Based AI startup and want to run voice recognition and processing locally on the device and hence this is why the old devices don’t have the capabilities.  
 

I don’t need this! 


I agree and think this is probably part of their long-term strategy, see: https://www.home-assistant.io/blog/2019/12/03/sonos-shutting-down-local-voice-option-snips/ Hope that was $37M well spent.  There’s also a link on that site to some further details about the the sonos user account, or see https://jpmens.net/2018/09/11/upset-at-sonos/ , (which reminds me about the furor around the GoPro user account).  However, not wanting to go off-topic I notice this storm hasn’t impacted the bottom line but sonos are going to need big pockets for this one, https://www.nasdaq.com/articles/sonos-says-google-amazon-stole-its-speaker-technology-2020-01-15 Sorry, story was first covered in the New York Times but I don’t have access to that.

Userlevel 7
Badge +3

 

You will also be able to separate your legacy products from your modern products, so that the modern products can still receive updates and new features, and legacy products can still be used separately. We’ll have more information on how to do this in May when you can take that action.

 

You missed out a vital point, does this mean the legacy and modern will be interoperable? Or completely seperate? I am fine with my legacy speakers not getting updates, but I want my modern speakers to get updates and new features. I then EXEPCT to be still able to group music between legacy and modern.

This is the main issue on the table!  I have 26 SONOS devices, 16 of which are “legacy”. If you tell me I have to separate them out, then you gave failed in your mission, and why I purchased $10k of equipment from you… to have Whole House Audio.  

@David_366 and @morgan4x4, these legacy devices are stretched to the limits of their hardware already. Where possible, we will work to maintain the existing experience and conduct bug fixes on the legacy devices where the computing hardware will allow.  

 

 

With all due respect Ryan, and we know you are trying your hardest ….


But it’s time now for Patrick to stand up, and put out a definitive announcement on here, as to what is going to happen.

In that announcement, there are two basic options, one of which will be retracting the crazy ill thought out idea of legacy, and then suggest a plan to keep all of the legacy equipment fully operational (with no loss of current functionality), and hence a chance of keep customers.

The other option, will be to continue with the legacy plans, wave goodbye to the existing 37% of repeat customers (as there is no way they will buy any more equipment), and totally destroy future sales to new customers, as they will rapidly be aware of the bad press, Its’ already on the BBC here in the UK.

Easy.

 

While I am disappointed, I am not entirely surprised. Not surprised by this message from Sonos, as there was bound to come a point where it was no longer technically feasible to keep all hardware on the same software version, but also not surprised by the amount of responses and anger this has generated. 

I refuse to rant about Sonos owing me money, as I am well aware that these products are just as subject to aging as smartphones, tablets and other computers, and I also know that my products will not stop functioning after May 2020. What does disappoint me, like it does many others, is the fact that having a few “legacy” devices, will eventually impact the usability of my entire system. Additionally, there is a worry that this will in time happen to all of my devices, which in turn raises the question if I'm willing to essentially replace my entire setup over the years for the sake of updates.

 

I would love to have a constructive discussion, or maybe even to speculate, as we like to do on here, about the future functionality of the system and how Sonos will (or should) implement this split between legacy and modern devices. I would also be interested in hearing peoples thoughts about the backlash this is generating: will this be the first time Sonos reverses or alters a decision based on user/public feedback? 

At first I was looking through these threads for responses from the regulars on these communities - you know who you are, the people that used to be at the top of the “Leaderboard” of likes before this chaos ensued - who have been known to me as posting messages that are level-headed, calm and constructive analyses and opinions. Unfortunately any objective discussion has, for the time being, been drowned out by - in some cases perfectly valid - anger, disappointment, rants and complaints, mainly by one-time registrars.

While it is in part a good thing, showing Sonos how their decisions affect their userbase, it drowns out many posts that are just looking for or providing information, and any sensible discussion on how to move forward. Not sure if I should try to open a separate thread, just to have it flooded by resentment.

Will you be offering trade-in against Naim products. It seems I’ve now bought my last Sonos.

Is the legacy coding cost more than the value lost in the share proce by this announcement?

Userlevel 6
Badge +1

Anyone who is unhappy with this news has the option to email the CEO at patrick.spence@sonos.com , I have already done so

 

I did too yesterday and replied to your post but it(the reply) disappeared like the functions of sonos equipment does. Mr Spence trotted put corporate bullshit and contradictory 'explanations'. Something is dodgy at the heart of sonos and not just their NASDAQ share price manipulstion so they can profit without customers. This biyback and bricking scam came just months after they (sonos) went all NASDAQ. Not dodgy at all.

 

Userlevel 3

Trading up would be fine for me, but 30% is a joke, at 75% I would consider trading up. You lost a loyal customer that promoted your products to family and friends for over 10 years. This is a really bad move and I doubt your “damage control” is going to work.

Userlevel 4
Badge +3

.

We don’t expect any immediate impact to your experience, but access to services and overall functionality will eventually be disrupted, particularly as partners evolve their own services and features. 

Another option available to all customers with legacy products is to take advantage of the Trade Up program, which allows you to upgrade older Sonos products to modern ones with a 30% discount. Trade Up will be open to customers at any time should they decide to upgrade. 

If you have any further questions, please don’t hesitate with asking.

Hi Ryan,

Good with some clarifications. Could you provide some assurance as well?

What I am looking for is a guarantee that these older products will be fully functional for at least some time, say 2 years, from now.

Plus a guarantee that there will be an attractive trade-in option all the way during that time, making it possible for anyone with legacy products to plan for a reasonable way along whatever upgrade route that will fit them.

Userlevel 4
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Well, we could all become shareholders and do a Proxy fight at the next meeting in February.  BTW, I just withheld my vote for the 3 board members.  Too bad I couldn’t vote on your compensation like other Companies.

DIRECTOR

  • Thomas Conrad
  • Julius Genachowski
  • Michelangelo Volpi
Userlevel 1
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Not good closing a thread and opening a new one, just update the orignal!

Please can you explain why you misled people by saying only 10 weeks ago on Twitter that “We have no plans to suddenly make these devices obsolete. We're simply offering our users an eco-friendly way to upgrade their older players.” 

 

WOW.. what a bunch of male cow manure!!

You have got to be kidding!! I spent thousands on your products. First I wasn’t able to use music off my phone anymore. So I bought a desktop. Now my stuff will be obsolete, and not able to update the system??? What kind of a scam is this turning into. Who sells a product, then forces the customer to upgrade or else?? With the amount of money I sunk into Sonos, I will be forced to consult a lawyer to get a refund if this doesn’t change!

Userlevel 3

I actually don’t buy the excuse that the hardware is under powered and cannot cope with playing modern music. Surely as long as you have one up to date device on your system that that can ‘babysit’ the older devices, that newer device is the one that deals with the streaming and then the older ones just do whatever they are told by that newer one? It seems that this is just a way of fleecing more money from customers.

 

I may be wrong, I do not understand the details of how Sonos works but we are only asking these speakers to play music, it can’t be that hard, they have been doing it quite happily for a good few years now.

 

The timing of this seems so foolish, just when the market becomes flooded with options for multi room speakers. If you spent big on hardware that is going to be made worthless, what motivation is there to ever buy another product from that company? So I replace all my affected speakers, what is to say that in 5 or 10 years they won’t do this again? I spoke so highly of Sonos when my friends were all buying the google ones and now I look like the fool, never again.

Userlevel 1

As a Sonos user for over 7 years and having spent a fair few £s on the system I find this disgusting to potentially have a system that doesn't work in the future, I have two legacy items but it worries me that the modern systems will be outdated in a few years time and they will also be considered legacy. Not good business sense from a brand and how to annoy your loyal customers in one foul swoop.

You should offer to upgrade these legacy speakers for a fraction of the price, 30% is not worth doing at least 70% for the inconvenience. 

Userlevel 2

I was just about to post on the original thread, I pressed “Send” and the system reports that the thread is closed?  OK, then I’ll take my comments to a third-party like BBC News.

I think it’s fair to say, that the anger will continue on this new thread anyway,
I don’t think the idea of this thread being ‘answers to technical questions raised’ will cut it.

Good idea, re going to external media, as Sonos are clearly not listening so far.

I see that the story is now on the top of the BBC tech page.
​​​​​​
Hardly surprising, as by Sonos’s own figures, 37% of their revenue comes from existing owners. Not any more though.

Not only is 37% of their revenue from existing owners, but I wonder what percentage is from new owners that are buying Sonos because of personal (friends) or professional (installers) recommendations who are existing owners? 

Not only have they killed off purchases from existing owners, but also a lot of revenue from prospective owners who will now be advised not to touch Sonos with the proverbial bargepole. 

Oh, then there are the potential owners who may not have been in contact with existing owners, but who will have googled Sonos and ended up on the BBC News website, the (UK) Standard website, the (UK) Independent, What Hifi, The Verge, The Register, Engadget, ZDNet, Wired, Pocket-Lint (these are just a few sites currently trending this issue).

Oh, and I guess for those that miss all of these stories, there are going to be others that go to the likes of the John Lewis website with a view to purchasing, and have a read of some of the latest reviews on there and wonder why the reviews have gone from 4-5 stars down to 1 stars.

 

By the way, I also agree with others commenting on the fact that it was extremely bad form for Sonos to lock the original thread and open a new one under the pretence of addressing some of the questions that have come up. Thinly veiled attempt to sweep under the carpet the fact that well over 1000 responses to the issue, 99%+ being unhappy have been posted in under 24 hours since the announcement.  For what it’s worth, Sonos, this new thread seems to be heading in the same direction as the previous. Perhaps you could re-label this one as simply volume 2 of the initial one, and provide a back link for anyone interested? No? Thought not.

 

 

Userlevel 7
Badge +26

This new thread didn’t clarify the most important points I had read in the previous thread. Answer these please...
 

  1. Will future controller apps and pc based software continue to work with legacy systems? (with existing functionality)
  2. Can Legacy and Modern speakers be grouped together?
  3. Will legacy systems allow other legacy speakers to be added after May?
  4. Will you allow hardware with various versions of Sonos OS to work side by side on a single Sonos network?
  5. I mainly use a NAS with my Sonos and rarely use streaming services. Will I still be able to do this after May?

Sonos do not delete the other thread. 

Mirrors my concerns although do also use streaming

@matthew.bacon and @attacama40  my previous post in this thread answers some of those questions, but you might have missed.​

  1. I believe this is the answer you’re looking for: You will be able get the app that works with a legacy system to use on new mobile devices, or if you accidentally delete it.
  2. You would either have a legacy system with legacy devices and modern devices, or a modern system and a legacy system. If it’s all one legacy system, than yes, they’ll group together, but if it’s two separate systems, than they’re two, separate systems.
  3. You will be able to add products to your legacy systems. We'll have more to share on the experience come May. 
  4. No, Sonos players are a system and won’t operate properly with different versions in one system.
  5. Yes, if you mostly use the NAS drive, the only likely change with your system will be that you’ll stop getting updates. Everything else will continue to function exactly as it does today. Streaming services will work the same as well, but at some time in the future, service software changes might cause it to degrade or stop working. 
Userlevel 2
Badge +1

What’s frustrating to me is I had locked myself down to the last firmware that the CR100 worked on and I was happy as a clam, but eventually thought “I might be missing out on something” so I let the CR100’s go and know what? There was never any great features added” and now I will be locked to a firmware, I could still be using my CR100’s until a natural death occurred.

I mostly stream Amazon Prime Music from my Amazon Echo to the Sonos, I don’t see that changing.

I’m kicking myself for updating the firmware, I wish I could downgrade and then freeze, at least I’d still have my CR100’s.

Sonos, I will not support your products any longer.

I’ve learned a good lesson over the last few years with any internet connected technology, ones that rely on a cloud based server to get information. You are at the mercy of the company as too the longevity of your product, they go out of business, change their model, you lose.

There’s a huge list of companies that have come and gone, or planning the end. beware of IOT.

POGOPLUG

IRIS by Lowes

Vector Robot

Samsung Artik Cloud

https://staceyoniot.com/dead-iot-products-still-live-on-retail-shelves/

 

 

 

Userlevel 4
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https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-51206604

 

Thanks for link.

 

I encourage people to share this and other links picking up the news to your local media. 

 

SPREAD THE WORD!

 

The public will not see this thread and seeing as Sonos has closed down one, they may squish this one also.

Userlevel 6
Badge +1

 

You will also be able to separate your legacy products from your modern products, so that the modern products can still receive updates and new features, and legacy products can still be used separately. We’ll have more information on how to do this in May when you can take that action.

 

You missed out a vital point, does this mean the legacy and modern will be interoperable? Or completely seperate? I am fine with my legacy speakers not getting updates, but I want my modern speakers to get updates and new features. I then EXEPCT to be still able to group music between legacy and modern.

This is the main issue on the table!  I have 26 SONOS devices, 16 of which are “legacy”. If you tell me I have to separate them out, then you gave failed in your mission, and why I purchased $10k of equipment from you… to have Whole House Audio.  

@David_366 and @morgan4x4, these legacy devices are stretched to the limits of their hardware already. Where possible, we will work to maintain the existing experience and conduct bug fixes on the legacy devices where the computing hardware will allow.  

 

 

With all due respect Ryan, and we know you are trying your hardest ….


But it’s time now for Patrick to stand up, and put out a definitive announcement on here, as to what is going to happen.

In that announcement, there are two basic options, one of which will be retracting the crazy ill thought out idea of legacy, and then suggest a plan to keep all of the legacy equipment fully operational (with no loss of current functionality), and hence a chance of keep customers.

The other option, will be to continue with the legacy plans, wave goodbye to the existing 37% of repeat customers (as there is no way they will buy any more equipment), and totally destroy future sales to new customers, as they will rapidly be aware of the bad press, Its’ already on the BBC here in the UK.

Easy.

 

A stand alone box of chips with an ethernet cable, like a raspberry pi, could have as much memory as NASA, a wifi chip, like IKEA sonos speakers, and ethernet in/out sockets to connect between router and 'legacy' equipment. This wee box could sort the memory/processing needs for 50 quid, or put a sonos badge on it and charge 200! !LOL LOL lol ha ha ha .

Userlevel 4
Badge +5

I have just bought a pair of Kef wireless speakers.   Sonos have lost me as a customer - they’ve shown their hand and I’m out.

Userlevel 1

A customer lost here, but I can be won back. I can’t justify the cost of buying a whole setup at one time, and I don’t want to be constantly thinking about the next product to become obsolete. I’m also deeply concerned about the impact of disposing of working equipment simply due to compatibility issues - for the sake of a few cheap microchips. Give us an option to upgrade the circuitry and I’d got for that (if it’s not extortionate) - or provide third parties with the hardware and licensing to do it for us.

If your business model remains wasteful, both in terms of manufacture resources and customer cash, then I won’t be investing in it any further. If you develop a sustainable way of upgrading then you’ll be ahead of the competition and I’ll be looking to expand my setup (I’m really glad I didn't get that soundbar now!).

Userlevel 1
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While I am disappointed, I am not entirely surprised. Not surprised by this message from Sonos, as there was bound to come a point where it was no longer technically feasible to keep all hardware on the same software version, but also not surprised by the amount of responses and anger this has generated. 

I refuse to rant about Sonos owing me money, as I am well aware that these products are just as subject to aging as smartphones, tablets and other computers, and I also know that my products will not stop functioning after May 2020. What does disappoint me, like it does many others, is the fact that having a few “legacy” devices, will eventually impact the usability of my entire system. Additionally, there is a worry that this will in time happen to all of my devices, which in turn raises the question if I'm willing to essentially replace my entire setup over the years for the sake of updates.

 

I would love to have a constructive discussion, or maybe even to speculate, as we like to do on here, about the future functionality of the system and how Sonos will (or should) implement this split between legacy and modern devices. I would also be interested in hearing peoples thoughts about the backlash this is generating: will this be the first time Sonos reverses or alters a decision based on user/public feedback? 

At first I was looking through these threads for responses from the regulars on these communities - you know who you are, the people that used to be at the top of the “Leaderboard” of likes before this chaos ensued - who have been known to me as posting messages that are level-headed, calm and constructive analyses and opinions. Unfortunately any objective discussion has, for the time being, been drowned out by - in some cases perfectly valid - anger, disappointment, rants and complaints, mainly by one-time registrars.

While it is in part a good thing, showing Sonos how their decisions affect their userbase, it drowns out many posts that are just looking for or providing information, and any sensible discussion on how to move forward. Not sure if I should try to open a separate thread, just to have it flooded by resentment.

 

-

a good comment…. as a guy with a 12 zones using connect and connect amps, wired speakers, and multiple play devices.. I have 7 “legacy” items and 5 “modern” (whatever modern means).. what does the future hold for my modern equipment.. how many years ( or months)  until this equipment is considered obsolete?


more answers are required…..  I too understand that technology gets old (I no longer use a Palmpilot professional…  (look that one up 🙂 )).. but lets have a meaningful honest discussion first.. shall we?

cheers

Userlevel 7
Badge +3

I was just about to post on the original thread, I pressed “Send” and the system reports that the thread is closed?  OK, then I’ll take my comments to a third-party like BBC News.

I think it’s fair to say, that the anger will continue on this new thread anyway,
I don’t think the idea of this thread being ‘answers to technical questions raised’ will cut it.

Good idea, re going to external media, as Sonos are clearly not listening so far.

I see that the story is now on the top of the BBC tech page.
​​​​​​
Hardly surprising, as by Sonos’s own figures, 37% of their revenue comes from existing owners. Not any more though.

Not only is 37% of their revenue from existing owners, but I wonder what percentage is from new owners that are buying Sonos because of personal (friends) or professional (installers) recommendations who are existing owners? 

Not only have they killed off purchases from existing owners, but also a lot of revenue from prospective owners who will now be advised not to touch Sonos with the proverbial bargepole. 

Oh, then there are the potential owners who may not have been in contact with existing owners, but who will have googled Sonos and ended up on the BBC News website, the (UK) Standard website, the (UK) Independent, What Hifi, The Verge, The Register, Engadget, ZDNet, Wired, Pocket-Lint (these are just a few sites currently trending this issue).

Oh, and I guess for those that miss all of these stories, there are going to be others that go to the likes of the John Lewis website with a view to purchasing, and have a read of some of the latest reviews on there and wonder why the reviews have gone from 4-5 stars down to 1 stars.

 

By the way, I also agree with others commenting on the fact that it was extremely bad form for Sonos to lock the original thread and open a new one under the pretence of addressing some of the questions that have come up. Thinly veiled attempt to sweep under the carpet the fact that well over 1000 responses to the issue, 99%+ being unhappy have been posted in under 24 hours since the announcement.  For what it’s worth, Sonos, this new thread seems to be heading in the same direction as the previous. Perhaps you could re-label this one as simply volume 2 of the initial one, and provide a back link for anyone interested? No? Thought not.

 

 

@CNC 100% agree on all points

Userlevel 4
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Customers with both legacy and modern products have time to decide what option is best for them. 

 

See, therein lies the problem, what is a “modern” system today, will be a “legacy” system tomorrow with the threat of obsolescence hanging over it. I’ll choose to “decide” now to stop the purchase of intentional development of five year speakers and systems.

 

Sorry. Headed to Amazon next for a rare user review from this long time Prime member.

Userlevel 6
Badge +1

You have got to be kidding!! I spent thousands on your products. First I wasn’t able to use music off my phone anymore. So I bought a desktop. Now my stuff will be obsolete, and not able to update the system??? What kind of a scam is this turning into. Who sells a product, then forces the customer to upgrade or else?? With the amount of money I sunk into Sonos, I will be forced to consult a lawyer to get a refund if this doesn’t change!

I think its called blackmail with a side order of extortion!

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