I'll preface this by saying I've Googled this to death. I'll share my own findings at the bottom.
So I'm in progress on a new construction, and I want to get this as right as possible the first time while the walls are totally open. Ideally, I want a 5.1 TV set-up, 2 or 3 pairs of in-wall/ceiling speakers (i.e. Sonos architectural) AND one pair of outdoor speakers. MUSIC sound and experience is my priority over a perfect TV theater setup.
Now, the tricky part is, I want every speaker to be able to play from the same singular source (my iPhone). I know that 3 arch. pairs will play the same audio via a single Amp, but that seems like a waste of the TV speakers (if they are just sitting there silent - especially if the TV sub wasn't playing with the arch.)
Then, I also want all the arch. speakers to be able to play the audio from the TV output (like if I were to watch a youtube music video, I want every speaker including outside to play that audio).
But then I of course want to be able to watch TV using only the surround set-up and everything else off. Yeah, I'm high maintenance.
(adding even more complexity to this setup is the fact that 85% of the space is vaulted cathedral style - a topic for another day)
I'm trying to figure out how many Amps and/or ConnectAmps I might need and how the speakers will interact to achieve this setup, if it is in fact possible.
FWIW, a Sonos rep via chat try to explain with this: "Okay. So yes you would want one Amp powering a pair of in-wall speakers for front channels, an Amp powering a pair of speakers as rear channels (if you wanted to have them) and an Amp with the outdoor speakers (up to three pairs outdoors)
You can send the TV audio from the surround sound setup to the outdoor speakers, and since the outdoor speakers are not in the surround sound setup, you can have up to three pairs with that one Amp
And you can play music to any and all of them from the Sonos App" >> aka she's saying I need 3 separate amps to achieve what she understood. Seems like overkill.
* So far, in my research, it seems like if I wanted to play music audio from my phone on the TV setup, then I would have to connect it to an amp, which then "phantomizes" my sound bar center channel. I don't really want to have to do that, seeing as the playbar is so expensive. Maybe some of you can share your experience with a 4.1 vs true 5.1 setup? *
Another thing to note that is that most of the speakers I want to just run mono audio, with the exception of 2 (near the TV setup) which would be stereo L/R.
PHEW - ok so any advice is appreciated. Like I said, I want to get as close to perfect as I can while the wiring, etc. is easy. I don't want to install things now and then realized, crap, I can't play THIS from THERE --__--
New Home Construction! Help me get this right the first time :)
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Userlevel 7
+23
Don't waste time setting up a nice new system that is reliant on playback from your iPhone, it is the least reliable method (see many posts to this effect). Use a music service, or put your music on a file share or NAS. Also, run CAT6 everywhere so you won't need to rely on wireless ideally. (Except for the apps).
Regarding specific speaker questions, I would imagine others can help with that. I just put stuff where it is needed.
Regarding specific speaker questions, I would imagine others can help with that. I just put stuff where it is needed.
Userlevel 7
+26
One big thing with Sonos is that you can control what's playing using your phone, as opposed to playing directly off of your phone. This means you can start playing music using the phone like a remote, and then leave the house, and the music keeps on playing. It uses less phone battery, and allows for a whole home system with multiple users.
However, if you're really looking to play the content that's on your phone specifically, the Amp and all of the newer Sonos products (Play:5 gen2, Beam, One [not the Play:1], and Playbase) support Airplay 2 streaming.
As to how many Amps to get for your set up, the way you describe it here, 3 would be best, and here's why. A single Amp only has outputs for left and right speaker channels (not including the subwoofer output), and only outputs one stream of mono or stereo audio at a time to its speakers.
To get a dedicated 4.1/5.1 setup, you need one Amp to handle the front right and left channels, and a second Amp for the rear left and right channels.
As to the rest of the house, to run up to 6 Sonos Architectural speakers around the house, distributing the same stereo or mono signal to all of them, you can use a third Amp. If you want more rooms than that, you'd need additional Amps.
It's also important to remember that for each "zone" of Sonos that you'd like to be able to control independent of any others, you need at a minimum of one Sonos device. So if you want to be able to have the house speakers turned off while the 4.1 system is playing music, ideally you would have a separate Sonos device (Amps in this case) in each of these "zones". This is why one of the reasons you wouldn't want to have an Amp running double duty as part of the home theater and also running the house speakers.
However, if you're really looking to play the content that's on your phone specifically, the Amp and all of the newer Sonos products (Play:5 gen2, Beam, One [not the Play:1], and Playbase) support Airplay 2 streaming.
As to how many Amps to get for your set up, the way you describe it here, 3 would be best, and here's why. A single Amp only has outputs for left and right speaker channels (not including the subwoofer output), and only outputs one stream of mono or stereo audio at a time to its speakers.
To get a dedicated 4.1/5.1 setup, you need one Amp to handle the front right and left channels, and a second Amp for the rear left and right channels.
As to the rest of the house, to run up to 6 Sonos Architectural speakers around the house, distributing the same stereo or mono signal to all of them, you can use a third Amp. If you want more rooms than that, you'd need additional Amps.
It's also important to remember that for each "zone" of Sonos that you'd like to be able to control independent of any others, you need at a minimum of one Sonos device. So if you want to be able to have the house speakers turned off while the 4.1 system is playing music, ideally you would have a separate Sonos device (Amps in this case) in each of these "zones". This is why one of the reasons you wouldn't want to have an Amp running double duty as part of the home theater and also running the house speakers.
Each SONOS player is an independent agent. You can control the players independently from the control App. Up to 32 controllers can be active at a given moment. Multiple speakers can be wired to AMP -- all playing the same source. If you want individual Volume control of these speakers (highly recommended) you'll need to add Volume controls in the speaker wiring. In my opinion, the Volume controls should be located near the area covered by the speaker. Each player can play different sources or (some or all) players can be "Grouped" and play the same material.
Since this is new construction, I recommend providing one network jack for all known applications and at least one per room. "Known applications" would be computers, TV's, heating/cooling units, Blu-ray-AppleTV-ROKU players, security systems, etc. For high bandwidth locations, such as TV's (actually anything with video) run a fiber too. Copper wire is running out of bandwidth. Future 4K and 8K video will work better over fiber. For the short term, the fiber might be "dark" (unused), but it is very inexpensive to run fiber now.
Use multiple wireless access points, rather than attempting to cover the whole house with one access point. There are weather resistant access points for outdoor areas. Each of these access points will require a wire.
Since this is new construction, I recommend providing one network jack for all known applications and at least one per room. "Known applications" would be computers, TV's, heating/cooling units, Blu-ray-AppleTV-ROKU players, security systems, etc. For high bandwidth locations, such as TV's (actually anything with video) run a fiber too. Copper wire is running out of bandwidth. Future 4K and 8K video will work better over fiber. For the short term, the fiber might be "dark" (unused), but it is very inexpensive to run fiber now.
Use multiple wireless access points, rather than attempting to cover the whole house with one access point. There are weather resistant access points for outdoor areas. Each of these access points will require a wire.
Use multiple wireless access points, rather than attempting to cover the whole house with one access point. There are weather resistant access points for outdoor areas. Each of these access points will require a wire.
Thank you. When you say "run a fiber", you mean just in terms of general prewiring? Or do you mean run a fiber cable from the application area to some other specific area (like a control closet where amps and receivers would be?
And for WAP's you're saying to simply have multiple of them to improve wifi connectability, yes?
Regarding specific speaker questions, I would imagine others can help with that. I just put stuff where it is needed.
Thanks. I should've been more clear. When I say from my phone I do in fact mean via streaming apps on my phone, not downloaded content (Spotify, Apple, etc.)
As to the rest of the house, to run up to 6 Sonos Architectural speakers around the house, distributing the same stereo or mono signal to all of them, you can use a third Amp. If you want more rooms than that, you'd need additional Amps.
I think for this reason (so many Amps) I'm starting to lean towards a non-Sonos amp with multiple zones/channels and then integrating a connect:Amp into the mix for some Sonos compatibility...
To get a dedicated 4.1/5.1 setup, you need one Amp to handle the front right and left channels, and a second Amp for the rear left and right channels.
To clarify/add to this, using two amps together this way 'bonds' them to creating a single zone (also frequently called a room). The two will always play a single source. if the source is music, you can set it so both pairs will play stereo. If the source is TV audio (including youtube videos) the rear speakers will play the surround channels (if the source has any) and cannot be set to play full stereo.
Regarding the cathedral ceilings, my previous home was like this as well, I had in-ceiling speakers installed on the incline (the celiling had drywall) and I was fairly happy with the results. It was great for music sources, better than a normal flat ceiling speaker I'd say, but a little off for TV since the audio didn't quite feel like it was coming from the TV. I also had a center channel speaker for the setup. Would I do it again? I would definitely put in speaker wire if it's new construction (you can use blank wall plates where the speakers would go), but I don't know that I would use that instead of standard playbar+sub+play:1s setup. Perhaps I would do both depending on the size of the room.
One other word of caution, for my setup the speakers were located near the A/C vents. Not a problem in it'self, but being as the edge between wall/ceiling was not exactly level, and the vents were not level either, it made it difficult to put in the speakers without something looking like it was done 'sloppy'.
And yes, I also agree that 3 or more Amps would be the way to do this.
As to the rest of the house, to run up to 6 Sonos Architectural speakers around the house, distributing the same stereo or mono signal to all of them, you can use a third Amp. If you want more rooms than that, you'd need additional Amps.
I think for this reason (so many Amps) I'm starting to lean towards a non-Sonos amp with multiple zones/channels and then integrating a connect:Amp into the mix for some Sonos compatibility...
In that scenario, you would want to use a Connect with a 3rd party amp. That's the setup I used the example I mentioned above. I had a 3rd party receiver for the TV/main area + Connect, and a Connect:amp (Sonos amp didn't exist then) for the outdoor speakers. I actually had a speaker switch with the connect:amp so I could send audio to my bedroom, bathroom, or outdoors as I wished. Another 3rd party amp+connect was used for the upstairs gameroom.
I would not get a Connect:amp today, particularly for outside, since it lacks the power of the Amp and cannot be used with a TV (outdoor TVs are nice).
When you say "run a fiber", you mean just in terms of general prewiring? Or do you mean run a fiber cable from the application area to some other specific area (like a control closet where amps and receivers would be?
And for WAP's you're saying to simply have multiple of them to improve wifi connectability, yes?
Yes, run fiber as a prewire.
Generally, the modem, router, and a large network switch are located at a central point. Fiber would run from clients back to this central point. If you have multiple switch locations, run fiber to these locations. And, if the modem is remotely located, run fiber there too.
Glowing advertisements indicate that some sort of super potent wireless router will handle a whole house. While this might be true in some situations, it is misleading. WiFi, especially 5G WiFi, does not penetrate walls very well. Brick walls and marble floors are opaque to WiFi. A not so potent access point in the room will be more effective than a super potent unit located several rooms away. Outside walls are denser than internal walls and coverage in the yard may be spotty -- if you have a yard and want coverage out there. Ceiling mounted access points are more effective than access points on shelves in closets. There is a relatively new class of wall mount access point that is often mounted at power outlet height.
Userlevel 7
+23
That is very unclear: Spotify/Apple stream directly to your speakers: your phone is just used to start playback from the Sonos app. (Think TV Remote). The problem with the iPhone is when people physically download music to it, then try to play from it.
That is very unclear: Spotify/Apple stream directly to your speakers: your phone is just used to start playback from the Sonos app. (Think TV Remote). The problem with the iPhone is when people physically download music to it, then try to play from it.
I see. I think the confusion is coming from the fact that I have not used the Sonos app so I don't really know how that Spotify-Sonos App-speakers relationship works. I would only be streaming from apps on the phone though, not playing things hard-downloaded on the iphone.
I see. I think the confusion is coming from the fact that I have not used the Sonos app so I don't really know how that Spotify-Sonos App-speakers relationship works. I would only be streaming from apps on the phone though, not playing things hard-downloaded on the iphone.
Not sure you quite understand this yet, since you keep mentioning the apps on your phone, which are essentially irrelevant.
The standard way of streaming music with Sonos is that the speaker itself gets the stream from the streaming service. The apps for streaming services on your phone are not needed at all. In fact, I have a Spoitfy account setup in my Sonos system, but I don't have a Spotify app on my phone, at all. The phone is just a controller, as is a tablet or any other means of control for the system (voice for example). You can start playback with your phone and then pick up a tablet to stop the music for example.
Here's a list of all the streaming services that Sonos supports.
https://www.sonos.com/en/streaming-music
However, there are some streaming apps you have on your phone that allow you to control playback of their services from their app. Spotify for example will allow you pick a sonos speaker, and then have that speaker play a Spotify stream. The stream is still coming from Spotify's services directly to the speaker though. You could shut your phone off and the stream would still keep going.
And there is also airplay, which works a lot like bluetooth. In that case, you would stream audio to your phone, and then have airplay stream to your speaker. Your phone must be on and in wifi range for this to work, and obviously takes up twice the bandwidth. It's not the smart way to stream with Sonos speakers except when there is no other options.
So yes, don't be thinking about the apps on your phone. You won't really want to use them for the most part.
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