Looking for a good turntable

Oh Lordy, I can't believe what I just read. That graph actually tried to explain sampling by showing a jaggy stair step representation. Guess that's what happens when you use "How stuff works" as a source. :D


I repeat:

"It ain't ignorance causes so much trouble; it's folks knowing so much that just ain't so."

- Josh Billings, Humorist

By the way, did you actually watch the video I linked to above? Monty works for Xiph, the creators of the FLAC codec, and he gives you actual experimental proof that analog signals put through a band limited ADC-DAC chain come out exactly the same when measured via oscilloscope. Not "compressed", not an "approximation", but exactly the same. This experimental data is congruent with the predictions (and subsequent proof) of the Nyquist-Shannon sampling theorem, which is the basis for all digital audio sampling.

Watch the video. It will keep you from embarrassing yourself more. Condescending or not, I'm right.

By the way, Sony was brought to court for false claims and lost because they used the same kind of BS stair step graph on that page. The reason for the loss? Stair step graphs are not an accurate depiction of digital sampling. The ruling banned Sony from using stair step graphs in the advertising of hires audio.

http://www.kirkville.com/sonys-web-content-claiming-high-resolution-music-sounds-better-than-cds-banned-in-uk-for-false-claims/

chicks wrote:

Someone needs to go read up on Nyquist-Shannon. Sigh.

From: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nyquist%E2%80%93Shannon_sampling_theorem

In the field of digital signal processing, the sampling theorem is a fundamental bridge between continuous-time signals (often called "analog signals") and discrete-time signals (often called "digital signals"). It establishes a sufficient condition for a sample rate that permits a discrete sequence of samples to capture all the information from a continuous-time signal of finite bandwidth.

. . .

The sampling theorem introduces the concept of a sample rate that is sufficient for perfect fidelity for the class of functions that are bandlimited to a given bandwidth, such that no actual information is lost in the sampling process. It expresses the sufficient sample rate in terms of the bandwidth for the class of functions. The theorem also leads to a formula for perfectly reconstructing the original continuous-time function from the samples.

Emphasis mine.

Yup

chicks wrote:

Kumar is a reformed audiophool, who no doubt spent quite a bit on cartridges, including Ortofons. You really need to stop making a fool of yourself...

Lol; my preference was Dynavector. MC with MM level output signals. Brilliant performer.
But I can empathise with the man. I too had misunderstood digital to be the series of jaggy steps that can only approximate the analog signal as more steps are involved, but never perfectly approximate it because there is no end to the steps that can be added. Folks here guided me out of that state of ignorance with some patience. Coming to the discussion with an empty cup of a mind helped though.
PS: if the long gone OP ever returns, here is something from my archive of links from an earlier life: https://www.stereophile.com/content/entry-level-23
Sometimes, Stereophile gets it right; the 10X5 worked very well on my Rega TT. But never exceeded the quality from an equivalent quality SACD/CD, even from 180g vinyl. And now I get the same quality from Apple Music streamed at 256 Kbps, if the album being streamed is well mastered.

This thread contains a good refresher as to why digital audio has surpassed vinyl, but never answered the original question. I've found myself searching for why the $100 turntable's sound quality is so much worse than streaming the same track. Is a $350+ turntable required to get reasonable sound from vinyl?

I've had Sonos for many years, somehow found myself wanting to get into vinyl as a hobby and recapture some nostalgia to enjoying music. Can someone chime in and explain what is required to play decent quality vinyl through Sonos? I've tried both a Ion Max LP and a Audio-Technica LP60, both have very poor sound quality compared to streaming. I realize these are the low end of turntables and want to know what features are needed to get better sound. Is this because of the poor built-in amplifier? Or the needle/cartridge? Or the weight and alignment of the cartridge? Do I need a mechanical turntable with phono only, sent to an external pre-amp to send to the line level input of my Sonos Connect to get decent sound quality? Are there pre-amps that are better suited to the input resistance+impedance of the Sonos Connect?