Do not buy from Sonos

  • 8 February 2020
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I’m not sure why people keep making statements that reflect what they want to be true as if they were the truth. The only information we have is that Sonos will only commit to updates for 5 years from when a device is last manufactured. 

 

No, that is not the only information we have.  We also have the fact that Sonos supported some units for over 15 years from launch and over a decade from last manufacture.  We also know that all current legacy devices have the same 32 MB of RAM and storage, meaning that particular configuration was good for over 15 years of service.  In addition, we know all current Sonos devices have 16 to 32 times that in RAM and storage.  Therefore, while 5 years is what they have to state in some jurisdictions, the capability for far more years of support is there, and Sonos seems to have built that capability into currently sold products to the tune of 16 to 32 times the resources of the just now made legacy units.

Make of that what you will, but that is far more information than “Sonos will only commit to updates for 5 years from when a device is last manufactured”.  

 

None of the information you provided makes your statements any more true. You are making at best educated guesses based on this information and thus you should state your opinion as such, not as a statement of fact. I have no problem with your opinion. We are all entitled to our own. It very well may come to pass as being correct, but we have no statements from Sonos to support it.

Not all current devices have 16-32 times the RAM and storage of the legacy devices. Some only have double the memory (64MB).

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Yes, and consumers should take advice that buying products that have stopped production will have a shorter life.  And Sonos needs to make sure they clearly mark hardware changes in their products.  A mistake I think they have learned.  And again, this only apples to some of the legacy products, since most stop production longer than 5 years ago.

I haven’t seen any indication that Sonos has learned from their mistake. I’ll be pleasantly surprised if they mark their products with dates with wording that clearly explains the life expectancy or guaranteed updates. 

We don’t know how often streaming music services get interrupted by code changes requiring Sonos to make updates in response.

 

 

We don’t know, but we have an idea of the probability.

 

Yes, and it’s very probable that within the last 12 months both Spotify and particularly Pandora would have been broken. Pandora would have when they introduced the new tree that includes “my music” and split their service into Pandora one, plus, etc.

 

I’ve stated in other threads that I don’t think that updates can’t be expected in perpetuity, but I think that 5 years is too short. I have also stated that I personally would be willing to pay for ongoing updates that would keep my devices able to stream music services. I think this is a valuable service and would be willing to pay for it. I don’t believe the excuse that there isn’t enough RAM in legacy hardware to continue to do this. I have always understood and never expected that new features would become available to my devices. It has been a pleasant and unexpected surprise that I can now control my zones with a voice assistant.

I’m not here to bash Sonos. I don’t think they are making a good business decision, but only time will tell. I used to be a very big Sonos supporter, but simply can no longer recommend them at this point based on their statement and lack of clarity. Sure, I could tell someone anonymously on the internet that I love Sonos, but if a close friend or family member asked me what they should buy, I’d have to strongly caution them about the potential for a limited lifespan. While other companies such as Bluesound may end up doing something similar, they haven’t yet and until they do, I will give them the benefit of the doubt. Sonos has already burned some of its customer base with this decision. Fool me once and all...

 

None of the information you provided makes your statements any more true. You are making at best educated guesses based on this information and thus your should state your opinion as such, not as a statement of fact. I have no problem with your opinion. It very well may come to pass as being correct, but we have no statements from Sonos that it will be. Not all current devices have 16-32 times the RAM and storage of the legacy devices. Some only have double the memory.

 

Yet it is information, something you claimed we didn’t have, and I never claimed my statements to be true. However, I did back up my statements with facts, facts you willfully chose to ignore, citing only those that paint Sonos in a bad light.  Sorry, I'm not so quick to wield that brush in the face of other, just as relevant evidence.

And yes, the Sub is an older product that has 64 MB.  The Sub is a special case (not really a smart speaker, only plays a single stream from a master device).  A couple others only have 4 to 8 times.  My mistake.   Still multiple times the legacy 32 MB that sustained some devices for 15+ years, so my point stands.

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None of the information you provided makes your statements any more true. You are making at best educated guesses based on this information and thus your should state your opinion as such, not as a statement of fact. I have no problem with your opinion. It very well may come to pass as being correct, but we have no statements from Sonos that it will be. Not all current devices have 16-32 times the RAM and storage of the legacy devices. Some only have double the memory.

 

Yet it is information, something you claimed we didn’t have, and I never claimed my statements to be true. However, I did back up my statements with facts, facts you willfully chose to ignore, citing only those that paint Sonos in a bad light.  Sorry, I'm not so quick to wield that brush in the face of other, just as relevant evidence.

And yes, the Sub is an older product that has 64 MB.  The Sub is a special case (not really a smart speaker, only plays a single stream from a master device).  A couple others only have 4 to 8 times.  My mistake.   Still multiple times the legacy 32 MB that sustained some devices for 15+ years, so my point stands.

Your statement, “Nobody in practice is going to have to replace all their Sonos gear every five years, or anything like it.” could absolutely be untrue. 5 years from tomorrow, all current devices could be transitioned to legacy and Sonos would be able to say that made a statement that this was possible and didn’t give anyone a reason to believe they would support devices longer than 5 years. They would be entirely correct.

My only issue is you making this statement like it is fact when it is only your “educated” guess and you should acknowledge it as so.

Everything is information. I never claimed we didn’t have information. What kind of statement is that? I said that we don’t have information that guarantees that devices will be able to stream longer than 5 years. What Sonos did with their first components does not guarantee anything moving forward. Expectations have changed them they decided to put out a their Legacy statement. “Past performance is not guarantee of future results”.

 

There are other products besides the sub that also have 64MB ram (some of the Connect:AMPs and Connects) that are not going into legacy come May. So, yes, your point still stands as being incorrect. I’m not trying to be a jerk, but your tendency to state factually incorrect information along with stating your opinion as fact makes reading the thread difficult and potentially misleading.

 

 

Your statement, “Nobody in practice is going to have to replace all their Sonos gear every five years, or anything like it.” could absolutely be untrue. 5 years from tomorrow, all current devices could be transitioned to legacy and Sonos would be able to say that made a statement that this was possible and didn’t give anyone a reason to believe they would support devices longer than 5 years. They would be entirely correct.

My only issue is you making this statement like it is fact when it is only your “educated” guess and you should acknowledge it as so.

Everything is information. I never claimed we didn’t have information. What kind of statement is that? I said that we don’t have information that guarantees that devices will be able to stream longer than 5 years. What Sonos did with their first components does not guarantee anything moving forward. Expectations have changed them they decided to put out a their Legacy statement. “Past performance is not guarantee of future results”.

 

To the bolded - I never said anything of the sort.  It’s not “(my) statement”, you’ve mixed me up with someone else.   

 

here are other products besides the sub that also have 64MB ram (some of the Connect:AMPs and Connects) that are not going into legacy come May. So, yes, your point still stands as being incorrect.

 

Connect:Amps and Connects are no longer being sold, which is what I meant by “current devices”.  Sorry if I was not clear on that, but yes, my point does stand.

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Your statement, “Nobody in practice is going to have to replace all their Sonos gear every five years, or anything like it.” could absolutely be untrue. 5 years from tomorrow, all current devices could be transitioned to legacy and Sonos would be able to say that made a statement that this was possible and didn’t give anyone a reason to believe they would support devices longer than 5 years. They would be entirely correct.

My only issue is you making this statement like it is fact when it is only your “educated” guess and you should acknowledge it as so.

Everything is information. I never claimed we didn’t have information. What kind of statement is that? I said that we don’t have information that guarantees that devices will be able to stream longer than 5 years. What Sonos did with their first components does not guarantee anything moving forward. Expectations have changed them they decided to put out a their Legacy statement. “Past performance is not guarantee of future results”.

 

To the bolded - I never said anything of the sort.  It’s not “(my) statement”, you’ve mixed me up with someone else.   

My mistake and I apologize about the mix up. That obviously should not have been direct to you.

There are other products besides the sub that also have 64MB ram (some of the Connect:AMPs and Connects) that are not going into legacy come May. So, yes, your point still stands as being incorrect.

 

Connect:Amps and Connects are no longer being sold, which is what I meant by “current devices”.  Sorry if I was not clear on that, but yes, my point does stand.

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Connect:Amps and Connects are no longer being sold, which is what I meant by “current devices”.  Sorry if I was not clear on that, but yes, my point does stand.

 

https://www.amazon.com/Sonos-Connect-Component-Streaming-certified/dp/B001CROHX6

 

The people who purchase these may be in for a surprise in the not too distant future.

 

https://www.amazon.com/Sonos-Connect-Component-Streaming-certified/dp/B001CROHX6

 

The people who purchase these may be in for a surprise in the not too distant future.

 

Sonos has no control over what a retailer does with their old stock.  But yes, anyone buying long discontinued modern electronics are the poster children for the phrase caveat emptor.

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Connect:Amps and Connects are no longer being sold, which is what I meant by “current devices”.  Sorry if I was not clear on that, but yes, my point does stand.

 

https://www.amazon.com/Sonos-Connect-Component-Streaming-certified/dp/B001CROHX6

 

The people who purchase these may be in for a surprise in the not too distant future.

 

The part of your point that Sonos may be able to keep updates going longer than 5 years because of increased RAM in newer devices still stands, but it still doesn’t guarantee anything.

‘Nobody in practice is going to have to replace all their Sonos gear every five years, or anything like it’

I made that statement and stand by it.  For this to happen to anyone, they would have to buy their speakers on the last day of sale of each type they had, and Sonos would have to support the speakers for the absolute minimum they have guaranteed.  And then repeat the trick every five years.  Yes that is theoretically possible but I said that in practice it won’t happen.  This idea that people can only expect five years use from purchase is utter rubbish.  People peddling that nonsense are ignoring the nature of the promise (from discontinued sale of the product type), the fact that it is a minimum guarantee that Sonos hope to exceed, and the huge increase in memory in most current products compared with the products shortly becoming legacy.

I don’t take back a word.

Edit: and the fact that even after updates stop the speakers are still usable.

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https://www.amazon.com/Sonos-Connect-Component-Streaming-certified/dp/B001CROHX6

 

The people who purchase these may be in for a surprise in the not too distant future.

 

Sonos has no control over what a retailer does with their old stock.  But yes, anyone buying long discontinued modern electronics are the poster children for the phrase caveat emptor.

Sure they could. Just as they are able to regulate prices (like apple, Bose, etc) that retailers sell their products for with agreements, they could do the same with selling outdated products. They certainly could require old inventory to be returned.

 

The part of your point that Sonos may be able to keep updates going longer than 5 years because of increased RAM in newer devices still stands, but it still doesn’t guarantee anything.

 

I never mentioned anything about a guarantee.  I just wanted to bring a little common sense into a thread citing a promised minimum as a hard maximum.  

Sure they could. Just as they are able to regulate prices (like apple, Bose, etc) that retailers sell their products for with agreements, they could do the same with selling outdated products. They certainly could require old inventory to be returned.

 

Since neither one of us know the agreements between supplier and retailer, let’s drop this discussion, lest the speculation get out of hand.  Sonos is no longer manufacturing, shipping and/or selling Connects or Connect:Amps.  Period. 

 

The part of your point that Sonos may be able to keep updates going longer than 5 years because of increased RAM in newer devices still stands, but it still doesn’t guarantee anything.

 

I never mentioned anything about a guarantee.  I just wanted to bring a little common sense into a thread citing a promised minimum as a hard maximum.  

And a maximum from product discontinuance, not date of sale.  I am already guaranteed at least 9 years use out of the P:5s I bought 4 years ago. And I expect much more.

 

 

 

 

Deleted.  Enough is enough 

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‘Nobody in practice is going to have to replace all their Sonos gear every five years, or anything like it’

I made that statement and stand by it.  For this to happen to anyone, they would have to buy their speakers on the last day of sale of each type they had, and Sonos would have to support the speakers for the absolute minimum they have guaranteed.  And then repeat the trick every five years.  Yes that is theoretically possible but I said that in practice it won’t happen.  This idea that people can only expect five years use from purchase is utter rubbish.  People peddling that nonsense are ignoring the nature of the promise (from discontinued sale of the product type), the fact that it is a minimum guarantee that they hope to exceed, and the huge increase in memory in most current products compared with the products shortly becoming legacy.

I don’t take back a word.

In practice, it certainly could happen. Maybe you mean in all probability? That’s up for debate and at least suggests that what you are saying isn’t a certainty, which it isn’t.

In practice, it certainly could happen. Maybe you mean in all probability? That’s up for debate and at least suggests that what you are saying isn’t a certainty, which it isn’t.

 

Since you are being pedantic,  I'll play that game.  You are most certainly not guaranteed only "5 years of streaming".  For one, Sonos is never going to bring out a new product and then discontinue it the next day.  Therefore, if you buy on the day of release (or any other day before cease of manufacture), you are guaranteed more than 5 years.  Second, legacy products can still stream, and will do so after the 5 year mark in May.  So again, more than 5 years. 

Matter of fact, the only way you are guaranteed only 5 years is if you buy on the day it is discontinued and the streaming services change their protocols that same day.  In short, you are guaranteed more than 5 years for the vast majority of Sonos purchases, with the exceptions being improbable in the extreme.

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In practice, it certainly could happen. Maybe you mean in all probability? That’s up for debate and at least suggests that what you are saying isn’t a certainty, which it isn’t.

 

Since you are being pedantic,  I'll play that game.  You are most certainly not guaranteed only "5 years of streaming".  For one, Sonos is never going to bring out a new product and then discontinue it the next day.  Therefore, if you buy on the day of release (or any other day before cease of manufacture), you are guaranteed more than 5 years.  Second, legacy products can still stream, and will do so after the 5 year mark in May.  So again, more than 5 years. 

Matter of fact, the only way you are guaranteed only 5 years is if you buy on the day it is discontinued and the streaming services change their protocols that same day.  In short, you are guaranteed more than 5 years for the vast majority of Sonos purchases, with the exceptions being improbable in the extreme.

Well,  no you aren’t guaranteed more than 5 years. First, Sonos could decide to discontinue a product at any time. They have not made any guarantees about how long they will keep products going, so again, while extremely unlikely, they could discontinue a product the day after release.  But, most people aren’t going to be buying products the day they are released. If your business model is built aroundthat, you aren’t going to be very successful. If Sonos wanted to make a guarantee that their products would be supported longer, they have had every opportunity and they have chosen not to, so until that happens, we are only guaranteed 5 years. Have t you ever taken a standardized test in your life or read a contract? This is pretty basic.

 

And, yes, streaming music services could be broken the day after support is dropped. Heck, in the most recent update announcement thread, Ryan acknowledges that without this update, Spotify would likely stop working. And in reality, if it’s 5 years or 5.5 years, or 6, that’s  probably not going to be a good value proposition to some. When I look at decision, I usually consider not only the most likely scenario, but the worst case before I make a choice. So, while I have always agreed that it’s likely that Sonos devices will function with streaming music services longer than 5 years (how much longer?), it’s certainly possible that it’s only 5 because that is what Sonos has committed to. For all any of us know, Sonos may plan to aggressively make people update devices every 5 years and pivot hard to this model.

Now you are just doing a bit.  Done with you. :rolling_eyes:

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It’s just the truth. Sorry if it offends. It’s unlikely that if I close my eyes and cross the street at 4 AM, I’ll get hit by a car, but I look both ways anyway.

It’s just the truth. Sorry if it offends. It’s unlikely that if I close my eyes and cross the street at 4 AM, I’ll get hit by a car, but I look both ways anyway.

 

Not offended, just not playing your silly pedantic game.  Get back to me when Sonos discontinues a product the day after release. 

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No one asked you to play any games. I’ve just explained the truth. You don’t happen to like it. Not a problem, but denying that there is the possibility of a 5 year life span on Sonos products (or shorter if an unsuspecting or uninformed customer were to buy from an authorized vendor on say Amazon), is just denying the truth.

No one asked you to play any games. I’ve just explained the truth. You don’t happen to like it. Not a problem, but denying that there is the possibility of a 5 year life span on Sonos products (or shorter if an unsuspecting or uninformed customer were to buy from an authorized vendor on say Amazon), is just denying the truth.

Gosh, amazed to return to this thread and find you still doggedly defending your lunatic argument. Yes an individual speaker may get less than 5 years’ updates - with probability 0.00001%. That we can agree on.

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No one asked you to play any games. I’ve just explained the truth. You don’t happen to like it. Not a problem, but denying that there is the possibility of a 5 year life span on Sonos products (or shorter if an unsuspecting or uninformed customer were to buy from an authorized vendor on say Amazon), is just denying the truth.

Gosh, amazed to return to this thread and find you still doggedly defending your lunatic argument. Yes an individual speaker may get less than 5 years’ updates - with probability 0.00001%. That we can agree on.

I have a similar disbelief anytime I read one of your posts and wonder how someone can be so obtuse. Its good you’re finally understanding simple statements of logic. In addition to the remote possibility that someone only gets 5 years of use out of their Sonos devices, there is also an increasing probability that it happens each and every day thereafter. This gets back to the core of many people’s concern. Will Pandora or Spotify go dark a week, a month, 6 months, much longer, after updates cease? No one here knows, but we do know and can now agree on that we are only guaranteed 5 years.