Cheers, Eventually answers to my questions could be found in Sonos Support and FAQ. I could not be assure of the right answer and the situation has some minor particularities. I was not able to find a recent topic that includes this doubts. Since it is a considerable investment I post here my questions hoping they can be answered. I did a diagram to facilitate the description. My goal would be to be able to listen to the Turntable and/or CD player through Sonos System (any room) and, possibly, also be capable to use the external Speakers, connected to a Receiver at this moment, as a pair of front speakers in the “home theater” set-up. This are the devices:a Sonos set-up to TV, Movies, video games as well as Music streaming in the living-room Beam 2 One (2Gen) distancing 4-5 meters opposite to the TV wall on each side 2 One (2Gen) on two different divisions A Stereo Receiver (Pioneer) https://intl.pioneer-audiovisual.com/products/2ch_components/sx-10ae/specification.php , which has 4 RCA Audio In (CD, Network, Line 1, Line 2) 1 RCA Line Out (L/R) [Device’s “Instructions Manual” transcription: “LINE OUT jacks - Connect a recording device, such as a cassette tape deck. Connect to the AUDIO IN jacks on the recording device using analog audio cable.”] Speakers Outputs – 2 pairs (A: L/R and B:L/R) Connected to the Stereo Receiver A pair of wired Speakers A Turntable,through a Pre-amp (Line 1 in) A CD player (CD in) Reading the site, multiple other related topics in the Community and the Sonos Components specs, I’m not at all sure this can be accomplished with a Sonos Port, which is not as expensive as the Sonos Amp. So my questions would be:Is this possible? To have the external Speakers integrated as front speakers in the Home Theatre set-up too (if this in fact adds up anything to the surround sound…)? Sonos Port or Amp? If this is possible with both, what would be the best compromise in terms of quality of sound, practicality and price, in your opinion?

Amp or Port to connect Receiver and to integrate external Speakers to Sonos set-up

Get a Sonos Port and wire the Line Out on the receiver to the analog line in on the Port, selecting Autoplay in the Line In settings for the Port in the Sonos app.

Wire the analog outs on the Port to a free pair of Audio Line In jacks on the receiver.

Set the receiver input selector to play this free pair of Audio Line In jacks.

This way, the existing set up of the CD Player and Turntable will play via the Port that is looped into the receiver per above, with no intervention needed.

To add other Sonos units to this music play, group them with Port via the Sonos control app.

However, you will not be able to use the speakers wired to the receiver as more speakers for the HT set up. The Sonos Amp will not be able to achieve this either.

K

A mistake in the above and a reason why the scheme won’t work with that Pioneer.

The mistake is that the receiver inputs need to correspond to the source in use - CD or Turntable. And then the Port analog outputs have to be wired to a Tape In socket pair on the Amp, with Tape Monitor selected so that what is heard on the speakers is what is looped back via the Port - but the Pioneer does not have the Tape Monitor feature needed to do this.

What you can do though is to add a small simple switcher - wire the CD and the Turntable to the input side of the switcher and wire the switcher outputs to the line in jacks on the Port, with the Port wired in turn to any line in jack pair on the Pioneer. The switcher is to allow for easy toggling between CD and Turntable to decide which signal gets sent to the Port for onward transmission to both the Pioneer and to the other Sonos speakers in the group.

The HT still remains a separate system.

D

DJCott
Author
Contributor I
3 replies
3 years ago
26 October 2020

Hi Kumar,

Thank you. I really appreciate your reply.

Another otption came across my mind having read your answer attentively. I wonder if the function of the switcher can be acomplished by the Receiver? (I’m sorry if I am digressing or devising, but on thing is to read about the product, another one is to hear the opinion by Sonos or users that have actually know or have the product)

My main doubt concerns the Line out that the Pioneer has. I would assume it is a simple RCA Line out that would reproduce the source selected on the Receiver, whether it is a Recording device such as a Tape recorder (example given in the manufacturer’s instructions manual), or for (another) example just a simple pair of Monitors. And so the Port or Amp would function as the kind of receiver (the actual receiver as a switchAnd still be able to have the speakers reproduce the sound of the source beeing played. Do you thing it could be otherwise? Should I contact and directly contact Pioneer?

That said and returning to your ideia of the switcher, is it possible to acomplish it through the Pioneer (RCA Line out) output to the line in jacks on the Port for onward transmission the other Sonos speakers in the group? I would imagine the speakers connected to the Pionner would reproduce the same sound, but eventually with some major drawbacks such time delay and the need for separate volume controling in the Sonos system and in the volume control of the receiver…

The same principle using the Sonos Amp would be to have the Pioneer (RCA Line out) output to the line in jacks on the Amp for onward transmission the other Sonos speakers and have the speakers disconnected from the receiver and connecting them to the Amp…

About the Home Theater system, although being a separate group, can I group it with a the group that would include the Amp-Speakers system and reproduce the sound of the Home Theatre?

K

Kumar
13112 replies
3 years ago
26 October 2020
Answer

I wonder if the function of the switcher can be acomplished by the Receiver? I would assume it is a simple RCA Line out that would reproduce the source selected on the Receiver, whether it is a Recording device such as a Tape recorder (example given in the manufacturer’s instructions manual), or for (another) example just a simple pair of Monitors. And so the Port or Amp would function as the kind of receiver (the actual receiver as a switchAnd still be able to have the speakers reproduce the sound of the source beeing played.

That said and returning to your ideia of the switcher, is it possible to acomplish it through the Pioneer (RCA Line out) output to the line in jacks on the Port for onward transmission the other Sonos speakers in the group? I would imagine the speakers connected to the Pionner would reproduce the same sound, but eventually with some major drawbacks such time delay and the need for separate volume controling in the Sonos system and in the volume control of the receiver…

The same principle using the Sonos Amp would be to have the Pioneer (RCA Line out) output to the line in jacks on the Amp for onward transmission the other Sonos speakers and have the speakers disconnected from the receiver and connecting them to the Amp…

About the Home Theater system, although being a separate group, can I group it with a the group that would include the Amp-Speakers system and reproduce the sound of the Home Theatre?

Good questions, I will try to answer all in the same order quoted above:

I had first thought exactly what you suggest, about using the receiver as a switcher, but the missing Tape Monitor feature will not allow you to loop back what is being sent to the Port back to the receiver and hear it on the speakers wired to the receiver. It isn't a matter of talking to Pioneer, this is a missing feature because it is rarely used today, and to meet cost objectives it gets left out. No harm in talking of course, to get this from the horses mouth.

There is also the way you then suggest, of using the Port only for onward transmission to Sonos speakers, and letting the speakers wired to the Pioneer be fed as: CD/Turntable to Pioneer to Pioneer speakers. But the time delay in the Sonos speakers is a major drawback because if all speakers are being heard in a large open space, then the time delay causes an echo effect that is very intrusive. If you just want to pipe music to different rooms either at different times, or where sound will not leak across rooms, this is not an issue and it will work.

If you are looking at the Sonos Amp that is a more elegant solution IF you can eliminate the Pioneer. Wire the speakers wired to the Pioneer to the Sonos Amp instead. Use a switcher to wire both the CD player and the Turntable to the Sonos Amp line in jacks. Set the Sonos Amp line in to autoplay. Job done. All you need to do to get all music to play in perfect sync is to group the required Sonos units, and start the source.

Here is the problem with the HT group:

To allow lip sync, there is no delay in the HT group when playing with TV as the source and to achieve this, one of the tricks Sonos does is use 5GHz wireless. But when you add other Sonos speakers to this group, there is a delay - essentially the same delay noted earlier above. This, when the TV is the source. If all the speakers including the HT group are playing with the CD as a source, or Spotify as a source, it all works fine. Because then everything is delayed.

K

Have you bought any part of the HT set up? If you have not, there may be a way to get some of what you want by not using the Beam. I am not a big fan of HT or Sonos products for HT, and my advice to you for HT would be very different. But that, only if you have bought nothing as of now.

D

DJCott
Author
Contributor I
3 replies
3 years ago
27 October 2020

If you are looking at the Sonos Amp that is a more elegant solution IF you can eliminate the Pioneer. Wire the speakers wired to the Pioneer to the Sonos Amp instead. Use a switcher to wire both the CD player and the Turntable to the Sonos Amp line in jacks. Set the Sonos Amp line in to autoplay. Job done. All you need to do to get all music to play in perfect sync is to group the required Sonos units, and start the source.

Thank you very much Kumar! Clear and instructive.

I think the Sonos Amp is a elegant solution as you well put it. I would eliminate the Pioneer. I guess I could plug some old monitors and a old CD player and put it in other room.

This way I would profit from the passive speakers which are pretty good and use the other Sonos speakers that are in the same room for a more “rounded” sound or listen to the Turntable in another room.

Here is the problem with the HT group:

To allow lip sync, there is no delay in the HT group when playing with TV as the source and to achieve this, one of the tricks Sonos does is use 5GHz wireless. But when you add other Sonos speakers to this group, there is a delay - essentially the same delay noted earlier above. This, when the TV is the source. If all the speakers including the HT group are playing with the CD as a source, or Spotify as a source, it all works fine. Because then everything is delayed.

I understand. The same issue. I consulted some forums from Samsung, some topics other here, the TV manual and other articles on the matter in the internet. And it is very difficult if not impossible to circle or eliminate this problem. On the other hand, the Beam and two rear One speakers, although not perfect, are good enough for now. I guess instead of this two passive speakers in the front (if it was possible without any delay) a Sub would be add much more strength and distinctness to the “HT” sound, which functions already almost like a “kind of” 5.0 system.

Have you bought any part of the HT set up? If you have not, there may be a way to get some of what you want by not using the Beam. I am not a big fan of HT or Sonos products for HT, and my advice to you for HT would be very different. But that, only if you have bought nothing as of now.

Yes… Unfortunately or not, these days I guess much of the set-ups and systems (at least some) people have is a sort of an ensemble of old devices that are kept and more current ones. The Beam was the choice for a number of reasons: from its height (that does not block the TV), the (small) size of the living room in my previous house, to a good deal at the time and some minor issues that entered into account. The two rear Sonos (One) speakers were just recently added to the system after a couple of 2nd-hand One speakers deal from a friend.

Notwithstanding, I would be very interested to hear your advice on a home theater alternative.

Fortunately, friends and family are plenty, many of them music, cinema and video games lovers, and we never know what can happen and whether the Beam can be sold at a good price. :grin:

K

This way I would profit from the passive speakers which are pretty good

Notwithstanding, I would be very interested to hear your advice on a home theater alternative.

It is a very good idea to hold on to passive speakers - I have some from 2002 that are still delivering all the goods. Speakers have their own sound signature and one gets accustomed to it, and then usually prefers it if it is good to start with.

To the second part - even though I have a dedicated room for HT with a 50 inch screen, my sound set up for TV is simple but, to my ears, better than the compromised for convenience Beam:

I use just a stereo amp and a quality pair of passive speakers. No Sub because the speakers do good bass on their own, and no surrounds because I think that their contribution is overrated compared to the wider sound stage for movies obtained from physically separated speakers flanking the TV, instead of something like a Beam or any other sound bar. Because of the phantom centre channel effect, even with this set up, dialogues appear to emanate from the screen even though there is no centre speaker. The only problem with this is in effects heavy movies - that one can’t selectively boost the dialogue volume levels, but I solve this issue by using sub titles for known language movies as well.

I also did not feel the need to go the whole hog and get a AV receiver with more wired speakers because I think it is an overkill. And on the very rare occasion when I really need the full monty of sound, there is a multiplex nearby.

And another big plus of my set up is that for music alone, it delivers better results than a sound bar based solution.

In your case, I would just get a simple stereo amp and good pair of passive speakers and eliminate the Beam and the Surrounds. Wire a Port to that amp and it will integrate for music play with the rest of the Sonos speakers around. What it will still not do is pipe the sound from the TV around the house via Sonos speakers, except with a delay.

K

Actually, there is also a way to get the full HT integration based on the kind of set up I use, and I have it at home for a covered patio; I can pipe the audio from the TV there to other zones in an adjacent open plan space.

BUT, reliability needs the Sonos units to be involved to all be connected to the WiFi base station router via ethernet cables. Otherwise the bandwidth limitations cause stuttering of grouped music play.

To do this, wire another Sonos Amp’s audio line in jacks to the audio out stereo jacks on the TV and wire the two passive speakers that are to flank the TV, to the Sonos Amp speaker terminals. And of course, as said, the Amp will have to be ethernet wired back the router.

There will be a 75 milliseconds lip sync lag between the TV and the sound from the passive speakers, but I have not found that to be intrusive even watching out for it with some attention to lips or to fingers plucking a guitar string. It is far less intrusive than the echo from the sound lagging referred to earlier, caused by the same 75 millisecond delay - so if this is not done automatically by the TV, one has to make sure that the TV sound is at zero. And to the downstream Sonos speakers in the group, there is no delay at all - the passive speaker pair flanking the TV and all other Sonos units in the group are in perfect sync. But before I wired the needed units back to the router, there were issues caused by the fact that to achieve lip sync, all that Sonos has to build a buffer needed for stable wireless grouped play is 75 milliseconds. Wiring the units meant that a bigger buffer was not needed.

D

DJCott
Author
Contributor I
3 replies
3 years ago
8 November 2020

I have tried without the Amp, connecting the TV audio out to one of the Receiver’s line in. There is a substantial lag, but which minimized having the TV settings’ delay about 120ms. I believe, as you have said, wiring the sonos system to the router it’ll not be intrusive.

I will try it as soon as the Amp a good Ethernet splitter arrives (mine is limited to 3 entries).

The sonos experience, in my view, is good for Home cinema, excellent compared to nothing (TV internal speakers), but is essentially a system for streaming music (independently of the source - internet, turntable, CD player). When it comes to Home theater i has some weak point (as most of the systems), like lyp syn and especially DTS incompatibility.

Thank you very much for you time, interest and detail, Kumar. I really appreciate it!

Best wishes

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