I am one of those few people who does get upset when I get the feeling my privacy is compromised by hard- or software firms, so after following a recent discussion on this forum (in which the person who expressed a concern was extremely badly treated by the community) I thought I would turn to Sonos directly with 3 very specific questions which follow:
"My main issue/question is whether or not any record is kept of what
music I listen to? I listen almost exclusively to my own music (not
streaming services who obviously know what I am listening to) and that
is what my question refers to.
My second concern is how I can opt out of data collected about when and
how long I use particular Sonos components. This provides you and
whoever happens to hack you successfully with data about when I am at
home which I would not want to share with anyone.
Finally, your website shows how I can opt out of some data collection by
going to the Advanced Settings on my iOS app and switching off Usage
Data Sharing. However, the app on my iPhone does not show an Advanced
Settings options, neither under the main menu nor under Settings. What
it does show is an "Update Now" option. Surely you are not suggesting I
must update first and accept the new privacy policy before I can disable
some of it again?"
The first answer I received was insulting and shameful. It was a mere form letter which did not touch upon my questions at all and merely pointed me to the new privacy statement (thus ignoring the fact that my questions were actually inspired by that statement). I replied and asked for a specific answer to these three questions and received a curd answer only to the last which basically says "accept the privacy statement before you can opt out of it (in part) again. Here it is (name of sender deliberately suppressed):
"Dear,
Thank you for contacting Sonos technical support.
You can access the advanced settings after your app is up to date. Here for you will be needing to accept the new privacy statement. The Voice and Trueplay topics are the ones that recently have been added. The other terms, you already agreed to when you installed Sonos. There are no changes other than the newly added ones.
Please do not hesitate to contact us if you have any questions.
Thanks and regards,"
Since Sonos support has not answered my first two question may be some of you can and perhaps someone can suggest a solution to the third problem without having to accept the new privacy rules.
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Emile, you get upset when you get the feeling your privacy is compromised. I get heavily frustrated as privacy to most Swedes is essential. Your post made me aware of the fact that Sonos like M$ is gathering data they do not really require for any other purpose than trying to make a lot of extra dollars. No user will benefit from that type of scheme. Quite the contrary as you’ll be flooded with commercial garbage and offers, I for one don’t want nor need. The letter from Sonos support shows, beyond reasonable doubt, their bullying attitude and that transparency hardly is their game. Seven hours ago I bought a Sonos Play:3 speaker because I found the sound, compared to products by other brands, to be somewhat better. Then, when I understood that the app on the whole only allows streaming services I broke into a laugh at myself being utterly gullible. I will never ever let a company make any decision on my behalf. That authority I reserve to myself. This forum sure enough proved the stupid limitations to be true and your post made my decision so very, very easy. Accordingly my solution will be to return the Play:3 speaker to the shop, first thing tomorrow morning and choose another brand even if it’s more expensive yet. The quality of Sonos products doesn’t in any way compensate the huge drawbacks.
BTW, noting the subject of quite many posts Sonos hardware appear to perform a trifle shaky and the software doesn’t seem to ”play” all that well with their hardware. By way of conclusion I declare to the waste number of petty-minded trolls that reside in this forum: spare yourself the overwhelming hardship of putting your mumbo jumbo thoughts into words because I won’t be back to read the highly illiterate results. Have a nice life, I sure will without you lot! No offense intended to the decent people here.
BTW, noting the subject of quite many posts Sonos hardware appear to perform a trifle shaky and the software doesn’t seem to ”play” all that well with their hardware. By way of conclusion I declare to the waste number of petty-minded trolls that reside in this forum: spare yourself the overwhelming hardship of putting your mumbo jumbo thoughts into words because I won’t be back to read the highly illiterate results. Have a nice life, I sure will without you lot! No offense intended to the decent people here.
Good luck finding any product that keeps your privacy protected, once you connect it to the net.
The only way to be sure of this in the area of music is to use CD players/NAS devices on systems that are not connected to the net. It doesn't matter what brand you use.
The bigger concern should not be about small fry like Sonos - think Google/Amazon and the like instead. There is a reason why their credo says "Do no evil" or something on those lines. Why would anyone that did not have the power to do evil even think about adopting such a credo?
The only way to be sure of this in the area of music is to use CD players/NAS devices on systems that are not connected to the net. It doesn't matter what brand you use.
The bigger concern should not be about small fry like Sonos - think Google/Amazon and the like instead. There is a reason why their credo says "Do no evil" or something on those lines. Why would anyone that did not have the power to do evil even think about adopting such a credo?
Kumar wrote:
Good luck finding any product that keeps your privacy protected, once you connect it to the net.
For sure, which IMO is why some are hyper sensitive about this.
Kumar wrote:
... their credo says "Do no evil" or something on those lines. Why would anyone that did not have the power to do evil even think about adopting such a credo?
Sonos says "We will protect your data as though it is sacred." LOL in other words it isn't sacred, but we'll pretend it is so you feel good about us mining your usage for marketing.
Being hyper sensitive about this reminds me of a saying in a different context - Penny wise and pound foolish.
As to using information for marketing, I have not seen any visible effects of such use by Sonos. I doubt that will change in future. I doubt any use will be non benign; saying malignant is too strong a word for what Sonos can potentially do.
Google/Amazon on the other hand...but I must say there is also a lot of convenience rendered by what they do in the area of marketing. And they make it very obvious that Sonos is small fry in this respect.
As to using information for marketing, I have not seen any visible effects of such use by Sonos. I doubt that will change in future. I doubt any use will be non benign; saying malignant is too strong a word for what Sonos can potentially do.
Google/Amazon on the other hand...but I must say there is also a lot of convenience rendered by what they do in the area of marketing. And they make it very obvious that Sonos is small fry in this respect.
It would be foolish if one was concerned about Sonos telemetry as they speak commands to their echo. Or sonos data sharing with music services if all they use is services. That doesn't necessarily seem to be the case here.
Can you please tell me how this will relate to the new European data laws coming in next year (GDPR)? I don't want my data shared with Amazon, or any of those other proposed integrations. I would like to opt out of all data shared with partner organisations. I didn't buy Sonos to allow all these other companies access to my home environment.
The first answer I received was insulting and shameful. It was a mere form letter which did not touch upon my questions at all and merely pointed me to the new privacy statement
I doubt any insult was intended. I am sure the support staff are instructed not to paraphrase the very much legal language in the privacy policy. I would counter that your question is clearly answered there too.
Under Additional Data Collection:
Activity Information. This includes duration of music service use, Product or room grouping information; command information such as play, pause, change volume, or skip tracks; information about track, playlist, or station container data; and Sonos playlist or Sonos favorites information; each correlated to individual Sonos Products.
You are allowed to opt out of that additional collection, and you've seen the link for details. If you can't access that in your app then you could download another controller (on your PC or Mac), or you could speak to Sonos about that lack. On the upside, I'm not sure why it matters if you have to update if you're able to remove the items you have concerns about.
My second concern is how I can opt out of data collected about when and
how long I use particular Sonos components. This provides you and
whoever happens to hack you successfully with data about when I am at
home which I would not want to share with anyone.
I believe this is an existing part of the agreement. I've tried a couple times to write-up why I don't believe it's a practical fear. They come across poorly on the Internet, so I've edited my post.
The bottom line is that from a technical standpoint your concern isn't really plausible. I'll go down the road if you want, but it's... really far from a reasonable vector of attack.
SomeCrazyGuy wrote:
By way of conclusion I declare to the waste number of petty-minded trolls that reside in this forum... I won’t be back to read the highly illiterate results.
I'm sure the unwashed masses will despair at the lack of your insightful commentary.
Can you please tell me how this will relate to the new European data laws coming in next year (GDPR)?
That's probably not a question you're going to get a satisfactory answer to on the community boards. Certainly not from me 🙂
Well I was kind of hoping that a moderator would jump in 😛 . In April next year - in Europe you have the right to decide what you do and don't want to be tracked. Companies will get fined up to 20 million a day that they are not compliant.
+26@World of Beans, We have a pretty detailed post here on privacy that may answer your questions. The new privacy policy doesn't ask for much more than the older one, and we think it's clearer and upfront about what is being collected and what it's used for. You can even opt out of more things now than from the old one. If you're concerned about anything, I recommend that you give us a call or email the support team directly. They're happy to try and answer your questions the best that we can.
Hi, I was the "tin foil" guy that Sonos community beat up on. Good news is that as part of the GDPR requirements that Sonos self certified to, EU Citizens and others can ask to opt-out of having their data used, shared or sold. Users can also request a copy of their data that the GDPR compliant company has on them. Reach out to the support@sonos.com and request help on this.
Last year, for fun, after wading through the lengthy and not-totally-informative Sonos privacy FAQ, I enquired about the data Sonos held about me. It took me about 10 back-and-forth messages with Support over almost a month to get the necessary information (all six lines of text). The "Privacy Statement" FAQ is still lengthy. But good luck figuring out if, say, Sonos log which tracks you play from your local library (they don't, apparently, but they might snoop on your Spotify), or whether they note how long you spend each day listening to music, or, well, why not just log a support ticket, and see how many basic questions you can ask for which the immediate answer should be "it's right here in this FAQ".
Alan_6 wrote:
Last year, for fun, after wading through the lengthy and not-totally-informative Sonos privacy FAQ, I enquired about the data Sonos held about me. It took me about 10 back-and-forth messages with Support over almost a month to get the necessary information (all six lines of text). The "Privacy Statement" FAQ is still lengthy. But good luck figuring out if, say, Sonos log which tracks you play from your local library (they don't, apparently, but they might snoop on your Spotify), or whether they note how long you spend each day listening to music, or, well, why not just log a support ticket, and see how many basic questions you can ask for which the immediate answer should be "it's right here in this FAQ".
:? ... or why not just take a look here :?
Smilja wrote:
:? ... or why not just take a look here :?
Of course. Thanks. Forgot about that. That page tells me... absolutely nothing. I might not have data sharing on at the moment. Interestingly, the "learn how to enable data sharing" button does nothing, other than to briefly flash up what looks like personal data...
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