Hi, I have got:
1x Sonos play1 in bedroom
1x sonos play1 in kitchen
1x beam + 2 Sonos play1 in living room
Sometimes I experience Spotify or tunein blackouts while Sonos support can't understand the problem.
Se times they say wifi interference sometimes problem is Spotify...
Today they told me that using Sonos with Google wifi needs 1 speaker connected wired to router.
Of course because I have 1 Google wifi this is obviously wrong.
Now... I see Google wifi logs and see only 1 speaker receiving the audii stream. So I understand that to sync speakers Sonos use its own protocol independently of my wifi good or bad.
So my questions are:
- if I have good wifi coverage it is still possible that it doesn't work because Sonos internally uses its own protocol on the same network band?
If this is true I can work to make the best wifi in life but if Sonos internal communication is bad, because of my environment I don't solve anything.
- wifi mesh configurations like Google wifi or Tp-link deco or other do they create problems to Sonos?
Do I need always a wired speaker?
There is a "misterious" technology behind Sonos, is there a technical document on how it work internally?
Is it possible to have some logs when audio stops to know of the problem is where is it?
I am a technical guy so please only technical guys.
Sorry for my poor English.
Thank you
Camillo
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Hi Camillo. Can we go back a step please? Sonos can work fine with Google wifi mesh, and there is nothing mysterious about the SonosNet mesh - Sonos just got there a decade before Google. We need to understand your setup. Are you using a pure modem to connect to the internet? Or is there an ISP router with wifi disabled? Or something else? If it can act as DHCP server, is that disabled?
Also, how does your primary Google unit connect? (I assume Ethernet to modem / router?). Is anything else wired to modem / router? At the moment, do any of your Sonos units connect to your network by Ethernet?
Also, how does your primary Google unit connect? (I assume Ethernet to modem / router?). Is anything else wired to modem / router? At the moment, do any of your Sonos units connect to your network by Ethernet?
John B wrote:
Further question. Do you play any non-internet sources and if so, do you have the same problems?
Hi John,
network configuration is super easy:
Internet ---- ISP router (wifi off) --- GbEth LAN router (before Asus N56U, now Google Wifi NO mesh by now) --- WiFi
ISP connection is a 100Mb DL / 50Mb UP and is always up and stable (tested speed every now & then).
LAN router making DHCP everything fine, SONOS booked IPs.
I am playing internet sources (Spotify and Tunein).
To me the SonosNet mesh technology is not clear and I think it is not so clear even to Sonos support people.
For support people is always a network related problem, but I am discovering now that Sonos uses proprietary WiFi protocol to send audio around, so my question is: do making my wifi network the best and performant on earth is useful if SonosNet is not?
How does Sonos work internally in terms of wireless connectivity between speakers?
Is there a drawing?
I am now forced to think that making my wifi brilliant will not solve any Sonos problem.
Am I right?
Then... this is first problem.
Next question is: if I will add more Google Wifi plucks, do I have to change something in my Sonos network configuration?
Just for a start, here is something I posted a while back, to a similar query:
'.....in layman's terms, when you wire a Sonos component to your router, you have two segments to your home LAN (network) - a SonosNet segment and a wifi segment. The two can pass data to each other through the Ethernet cable between the router and the wired component.
This is still one network - your router will hand out IP addresses to everything, including the Sonos components. But any data traffic between Sonos components will take place over SonosNet. One potential advantage of this is that unlike traditional wifi, SonosNet is a mesh network, which means that each component can act as a repeater, and so components can potentially be much further from the router.
If you operate Sonos in 'Standard' (wifi) mode then with traditional wifi all traffic goes direct from the router to each component, over your home wifi, as with any wifi-connected device.
Nowadays a number of mesh wifi systems have emerged, such as BT Whole Home and Google WiFi, but this doesn't change the operation of SonosNet.'
So, Camillo, all that is happening with SonosNet is that the data follows a different path, using a different wireless protocol. There is no reason to believe that that is a cause for concern. SonosNet was actually what made Sonos so stable in the early days. It is how Sonos is designed to run.
'.....in layman's terms, when you wire a Sonos component to your router, you have two segments to your home LAN (network) - a SonosNet segment and a wifi segment. The two can pass data to each other through the Ethernet cable between the router and the wired component.
This is still one network - your router will hand out IP addresses to everything, including the Sonos components. But any data traffic between Sonos components will take place over SonosNet. One potential advantage of this is that unlike traditional wifi, SonosNet is a mesh network, which means that each component can act as a repeater, and so components can potentially be much further from the router.
If you operate Sonos in 'Standard' (wifi) mode then with traditional wifi all traffic goes direct from the router to each component, over your home wifi, as with any wifi-connected device.
Nowadays a number of mesh wifi systems have emerged, such as BT Whole Home and Google WiFi, but this doesn't change the operation of SonosNet.'
So, Camillo, all that is happening with SonosNet is that the data follows a different path, using a different wireless protocol. There is no reason to believe that that is a cause for concern. SonosNet was actually what made Sonos so stable in the early days. It is how Sonos is designed to run.
Further to general reply given in previous post..
SonosNet is designed for audio transport and is generally very robust. And just to be clear - if you don't wire a Sonos component you aren't using SonosNet. You don't have to use it. Some people seem to have had trouble running Sonos with Google wifi, when different components connect to different pucks, in Standard mode. Using Boost (SonosNet) mode means that all components connect back to the wired component.
How does Sonos work internally in terms of wireless connectivity between speakers?
Is there a drawing?
I don't know what you mean by that question. Sonos uses Spanning Tree Protocol (STP) to determine the 'best' path for data to flow around the SonosNet. This is standard mesh networking technology.
If you DO run SonosNet you should wire a Sonos component to that primary Google puck.
camillo777 wrote:
I am discovering now that Sonos uses proprietary WiFi protocol to send audio around, so my question is: do making my wifi network the best and performant on earth is useful if SonosNet is not?
SonosNet is designed for audio transport and is generally very robust. And just to be clear - if you don't wire a Sonos component you aren't using SonosNet. You don't have to use it. Some people seem to have had trouble running Sonos with Google wifi, when different components connect to different pucks, in Standard mode. Using Boost (SonosNet) mode means that all components connect back to the wired component.
camillo777 wrote:
How does Sonos work internally in terms of wireless connectivity between speakers?
Is there a drawing?
I don't know what you mean by that question. Sonos uses Spanning Tree Protocol (STP) to determine the 'best' path for data to flow around the SonosNet. This is standard mesh networking technology.
camillo777 wrote:
if I will add more Google Wifi pucks, do I have to change something in my Sonos network configuration?
If you DO run SonosNet you should wire a Sonos component to that primary Google puck.
I am not completely clear on the network structure in use here, is there a second router active in the network other than the Google Wifi? Also, it is critical that on the ISP modem, not only the WiFi is turned off, but also any routing or DHCP functionality is disabled. Google Wifi needs to be the primary router on the network to prevent any issues.
John has already explained what SonosNet is and how it works. I use Google WiFi myself, so here's my advice on that:
If you want to make use of your WiFi network for Sonos, you need to make sure none of the Sonos units is wired to your network and connect through "Standard" setup. You will be able to verify this in the Google WiFi app, in the devices overview, in the "details" tab, the Sonos device will show up connected "Wireless".
All of your assumptions are based on the following observation:
Now... I see Google wifi logs and see only 1 speaker receiving the audii stream. So I understand that to sync speakers Sonos use its own protocol independently of my wifi good or bad.
No, you are misinterpreting the data - Google WiFi only shows you WAN (Internet) traffic, not (W)LAN (player to player) traffic.
You might expect otherwise, but Google apparently decided people only want to know the data flow to the outside world. The traffic monitor in Google WiFi only shows WAN (Internet) traffic, no internal traffic.
In a Sonos group, one player is always the "coordinator", it receives the audio stream off the internet. That stream is then distributed to the other players, either over the existing WiFi or over Sonosnet. You are only seeing traffic to the "coordinator" because Google WiFi is only showing you the WAN traffic to that player and not the internal WiFi traffic.
For example: if I push files from my PC to my NAS at 300 Mbps, Google WiFi shows no traffic, since it does not show (W)LAN traffic.
I'm afraid I have to conclude that most of your complaints about Sonos being "mysterious" and "unclear" are based on a lack of knowledge on your part - also in interpreting data coming from a second device (Google WiFi)
In answer to your original problem with Spotify and Tunein streaming:
I have also tried Standard mode, and that works fine as well, even with players connecting to different GW-units or players and controllers being connected to different GW-units.
My general experience, with and without Google WiFi, is that the technology that Sonos has developed works very well, and that issues are most often explained by causes outside of the devices themselves, such as network misconfiguration or interference.
John has already explained what SonosNet is and how it works. I use Google WiFi myself, so here's my advice on that:
If you want to make use of your WiFi network for Sonos, you need to make sure none of the Sonos units is wired to your network and connect through "Standard" setup. You will be able to verify this in the Google WiFi app, in the devices overview, in the "details" tab, the Sonos device will show up connected "Wireless".
All of your assumptions are based on the following observation:
camillo777 wrote:
Now... I see Google wifi logs and see only 1 speaker receiving the audii stream. So I understand that to sync speakers Sonos use its own protocol independently of my wifi good or bad.
No, you are misinterpreting the data - Google WiFi only shows you WAN (Internet) traffic, not (W)LAN (player to player) traffic.
You might expect otherwise, but Google apparently decided people only want to know the data flow to the outside world. The traffic monitor in Google WiFi only shows WAN (Internet) traffic, no internal traffic.
In a Sonos group, one player is always the "coordinator", it receives the audio stream off the internet. That stream is then distributed to the other players, either over the existing WiFi or over Sonosnet. You are only seeing traffic to the "coordinator" because Google WiFi is only showing you the WAN traffic to that player and not the internal WiFi traffic.
For example: if I push files from my PC to my NAS at 300 Mbps, Google WiFi shows no traffic, since it does not show (W)LAN traffic.
I'm afraid I have to conclude that most of your complaints about Sonos being "mysterious" and "unclear" are based on a lack of knowledge on your part - also in interpreting data coming from a second device (Google WiFi)
In answer to your original problem with Spotify and Tunein streaming:
- If you are indeed on standard (WiFi) mode, then improving your WiFi network (by adding GW pucks), will improve your Sonos experience.
- However you might have better results in following Sonos' suggestion of wiring one of the units to your network and using SonosNet.
I have also tried Standard mode, and that works fine as well, even with players connecting to different GW-units or players and controllers being connected to different GW-units.
My general experience, with and without Google WiFi, is that the technology that Sonos has developed works very well, and that issues are most often explained by causes outside of the devices themselves, such as network misconfiguration or interference.
John B wrote:
Further to general reply given in previous post.
If you DO run SonosNet you should wire a Sonos component to that primary Google puck.
If you DO run SonosNet you should wire a Sonos component to that primary Google puck.
Sjoop1985 wrote:
No, you are misinterpreting the data - Google WiFi only shows you WAN (Internet) traffic, not (W)LAN (player to player) traffic.
Thank you both, very important information, now I have understood better!
I was confused because:
1) did not know that Google Wifi app only shows WAN traffic, this was misleading me to think at some mysterious sync going on between Sonos devices;
2) Sonos support answered me saying that Sonos to work with Google Wifi needs a wired Sonos device; that I understand it is not true at all;
So both Google Wifi app and Sonos support where telling me "wrong" information.
Thank you
Camillo
camillo777 wrote:
2) Sonos support answered me saying that Sonos to work with Google Wifi needs a wired Sonos device; that I understand it is not true at all;
I would not say that this is wrong advice, as SonosNet, in most cases, is the more stable option. Furthermore, there have been reported issues with Sonos and Google WiFi when different devices were connecting to different GW units (AP's), this something that is also sometimes experienced in non-mesh wifi, when Sonos is connected to different wireless AP's. It's likely that Sonos support advised you to go the wired route to circumvent any of those issues.
But it is good to see we have been able to clear up any confusion. Enjoy your Sonos.
Life is what happens to you while you're busy making other plans (John Lennon) --- Living room: Arc, Sub, 2x One - Kitchen: One - Bedroom: Play 3 - Office: Beam - Bathroom: Play 1
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