Small update from Sonos support:
“Devices that do not support the Atmos format have received "boosted volume" to be more consistent with Apple Music volume.”
Can anyone confirm that this problem is only with speakers without Atmos?
They also said that they are working on it (and that many users already reported this problem)
--
Bohdan
In my experience, Atmos tracks have lower volume than non-Atmos so it wouldn’t make any sense for Sonos to boost volume for non-Atmos speakers. I don’t listen to Atmos except on Apple TV occasionally with Beam/Surrounds/Sub.
Playing Apple Music throughout my system on the Sonos App, the volume of every song is inconsistent but notably files that I have pinpointed to being .mp3 vs the apple standard. However, I never had ANY volume issues until 15.3.
Airplay is also a pain because it takes FOREVER for music to start playing everywhere for me. When it works, it’s great. But when it doesn’t, it’s a headache. Sonos needs to fix all of these issues ASAP.
How ironic, I just got 3 months free of Apple Music from Sonos when I bought two new Era 100 speakers… and now it does not work properly. Even at volume = 1, getting complaints from the family :(
Do you mean the voice-control volume-1 level, or actual volume-1 in the Sonos App, as the two are entirely different volume levels - I struggle to hear volume-1 in the Sonos App at say a distance of 5-6 feet in a quiet room. Anyone in another room would never hear it in our Home.
The Alexa voice assistant (just as an example) works in integer numbers, each representing a volume increase/decrease of 10%.
I mean the normal volume in the App. Even at 1, it is too loud.
Right. Sonos surely controls Apple’s engineering efforts, or has access to making code changes on Apple’s servers. Got it.
I didn’t say any of those things. Sonos is our service provider so as a consumer it’s irrelevant whether it’s an apple fix or a sonos fix, sonos need to fix it ASAP as their service to their consumers is broken.
It’s not a valid excuse to say ‘but it’s apples problem’.
so @Tom_69 how do you propose that Sonos fix Apple’s bug.
If a bus provider cannot run a service to its scheduled timetables because the bridge over the local river is broken would you expect the bus company (my service provider) to mend the bridge?
so @Tom_69 how do you propose that Sonos fix Apple’s bug.
If a bus provider cannot run a service to its scheduled timetables because the bridge over the local river is broken would you expect the bus company (my service provider) to mend the bridge?
Not fix the bridge no. They’d liaise with the party responsible for the route as a matter of priority though and divert buses until it was fixed. However, it’s a bad analogy as we’re talking about software.
The bug is in Sonos’ music service addin for Apple Music, so it’s Sonos’ responsibility to fix it in conjunction with Apple.
The point I’m making is that we can’t shrug this off and say it’s apple’s fault. As consumers we need to hold Sonos to account for screwing up a key part of their solution.
How ironic, I just got 3 months free of Apple Music from Sonos when I bought two new Era 100 speakers… and now it does not work properly. Even at volume = 1, getting complaints from the family :(
Do you mean the voice-control volume-1 level, or actual volume-1 in the Sonos App, as the two are entirely different volume levels - I struggle to hear volume-1 in the Sonos App at say a distance of 5-6 feet in a quiet room. Anyone in another room would never hear it in our Home.
The Alexa voice assistant (just as an example) works in integer numbers, each representing a volume increase/decrease of 10%.
My tests from post before (Sonos and Echo are siting on the same shelf)
“Did some tests yesterday - the same track and my very unprofessional dB meter:
Sonos (Apple Music API mode) at the LOWEST possible volume 1/100 is roughly equivalent of Alexa at volume 16/100.”
P.S. It is possible to use voice to fine tune Alexa Echo volume by 1% (not default 10%) - not easy and a require some work but then works fine (EACH volume level require separate routine)
Decided to do some more tests utilising live listen dB meter on my iPhone with AirPod Pros.
Stood about 1 meter away from a Play 1 speaker in a silent house, the in-person difference with Apple Music is still very stark and obvious which is backed up by the results. I didn’t pick any particular tracks, I just played the Top Hits playlist from Apple Music, Charts Top 50 playlist in Soundcloud and whatever music was playing on Radio 1 BBC Sounds.
For reference, we have used volume setting 15 for many years on all of our Sonos alarms to give a nice background music volume in our house and also used (until Sonos broke it) volume setting 1 in the bedrooms at night.
Sonos volume set to 15
- Apple Music 52 dB
- BBC Sounds 37 dB
- SoundCloud 36 dB
Sonos volume set to 1
- Apple Music 29 dB
- BBC Sounds 16 dB
Cannot wait until they fix this as the experience since it’s been broken has been terrible, especially losing the ability to play music at night in bedrooms.
Same issue for me for at least a couple of months now.
Still no resolution for this.
I ended up chatting in with Sonos support who ran diagnostics and their advice was for me to go through my Apple Music library of thousands upon thousands of songs and delete the files that I've added manually over the years (I began curating a library in 2003) that are .mp3 files and were uploaded (some were not matched) to AM upon subscribing and delete them and redownload/add the Apple Music (AAC) files – not to mention risking losing those songs if I ever chose to unsubscribe to AM.
I LITERALLY played the same song (my .mp3 variant that was uploaded and not matched AND the Apple Music version) and there is an extreme difference in the volume levels. Yes, I will obviously replace my .mp3 variant of this song with the AM variant, but this should not be the fix that users must audit their libraries for songs with volume inconsistencies. There was NO issue with 15.2 and prior.
If they can’t pinpoint this, they need to introduce a “sound check” feature or similar for the system.
I am SO tired of having to use AirPlay (which sucks) to listen to my AM library.
Still no resolution for this.
I ended up chatting in with Sonos support who ran diagnostics and their advice was for me to go through my Apple Music library of thousands upon thousands of songs and delete the files that I've added manually over the years (I began curating a library in 2003) that are .mp3 files and were uploaded (some were not matched) to AM upon subscribing and delete them and redownload/add the Apple Music (AAC) files – not to mention risking losing those songs if I ever chose to unsubscribe to AM.
I LITERALLY played the same song (my .mp3 variant that was uploaded and not matched AND the Apple Music version) and there is an extreme difference in the volume levels. Yes, I will obviously replace my .mp3 variant of this song with the AM variant, but this should not be the fix that users must audit their libraries for songs with volume inconsistencies. There was NO issue with 15.2 and prior.
If they can’t pinpoint this, they need to introduce a “sound check” feature or similar for the system.
I am SO tired of having to use AirPlay (which sucks) to listen to my AM library.
What about uploaded mp3 files without an AAC version? Do they propose any solution? I had bought albums from an old Google Play Music and they had only mp3 for download.. (and for some there are NO Apple Music Album at all - for example soundtrack for Transformers - Age of Extinction: GM had a single and an album, AM have only a single)
There are a LOT of albums which don’t have an Apple Music version/match at all..
Still not fixed in update 15.6.
Still no resolution for this.
I ended up chatting in with Sonos support who ran diagnostics and their advice was for me to go through my Apple Music library of thousands upon thousands of songs and delete the files that I've added manually over the years (I began curating a library in 2003) that are .mp3 files and were uploaded (some were not matched) to AM upon subscribing and delete them and redownload/add the Apple Music (AAC) files – not to mention risking losing those songs if I ever chose to unsubscribe to AM.
I LITERALLY played the same song (my .mp3 variant that was uploaded and not matched AND the Apple Music version) and there is an extreme difference in the volume levels. Yes, I will obviously replace my .mp3 variant of this song with the AM variant, but this should not be the fix that users must audit their libraries for songs with volume inconsistencies. There was NO issue with 15.2 and prior.
If they can’t pinpoint this, they need to introduce a “sound check” feature or similar for the system.
I am SO tired of having to use AirPlay (which sucks) to listen to my AM library.
All of my music is native Apple Music so it has nothing to do with any manually added tracks. They literally have no clue and it’s a joke.
Just another update to say this is still not fixed and there’s absolutely no word at all from Sonos as to what their progress is.
And Sonos want me to by more Sonos speakers at 15% discount. What a laugh!
Still not fixed in update 15.7.
What on earth are Sonos playing at!?
Hi @Tom_69 et al
Thank you @Tom_69 for bringing it to our attention that we did not yet update this thread - this was an error on our part, and apologies for the lateness.
With the advent of spatial audio from Apple Music becoming available to play on Sonos devices, Apple expressed an interest in actioning a change due to the volumes of stereo tracks being inconsistent with each other and with tracks from other music providers. In line with this, and with long-standing requests from our customers to apply volume normalisation to tracks, we have added to our speakers a response to the normalisation figures provided.
The current behaviour of the sound volume is intentional and by design. Due to the way we now utilise volume normalisation metadata from Apple Music in update 15.2, average loudness is now better aligned between different tracks. Some stereo tracks may appear louder than before and some stereo tracks may appear quieter as a result, but as I said this is expected behaviour.
Knowledge of these changes were not widely distributed internally, hence the reason why we raised this as a possible "bug" on the basis of everyone's experience on this thread. We aim to improve this in the future to minimise the chance of this sort of misunderstanding happening again.
I understand this is not ideal for everyone, and as such I have internally raised as a feature request the option to disable this normalisation process at will from within the Sonos app.
Hi @Corry P,
thanks for the explanation. This sounds clear to me but it makes no sense for me. The current state of my setup is: online radio is much quieter so I have to crank up the volume. Next I switch to Apple Music and it will blast my ears away.
the goal for the customer should be an equal volume between all music services the customer uses. And he should not be forced to make volume adjustments every time. If there is a need to setup a „normalization level“ for every service manually by the customer once then ok, but the current state is not acceptable…
best
Thomas
Hi @Tom_69 et al
Thank you @Tom_69 for bringing it to our attention that we did not yet update this thread - this was an error on our part, and apologies for the lateness.
With the advent of spatial audio from Apple Music becoming available to play on Sonos devices, Apple expressed an interest in actioning a change due to the volumes of stereo tracks being inconsistent with each other and with tracks from other music providers. In line with this, and with long-standing requests from our customers to apply volume normalisation to tracks, we have added to our speakers a response to the normalisation figures provided.
The current behaviour of the sound volume is intentional and by design. Due to the way we now utilise volume normalisation metadata from Apple Music in update 15.2, average loudness is now better aligned between different tracks. Some stereo tracks may appear louder than before and some stereo tracks may appear quieter as a result, but as I said this is expected behaviour.
Knowledge of these changes were not widely distributed internally, hence the reason why we raised this as a possible "bug" on the basis of everyone's experience on this thread. We aim to improve this in the future to minimise the chance of this sort of misunderstanding happening again.
I understand this is not ideal for everyone, and as such I have internally raised as a feature request the option to disable this normalisation process at will from within the Sonos app.
Hi Corry,
Thanks for the update. Unfortunately, this is completely unacceptable from a customer perspective and I am absolutely shocked that Sonos did not understand the implications of such a change to it’s user base. Can you raise an official complaint on behalf of all Apple Music users and everyone who has shared the frustration on your forums please?
The update renders many user’s systems as unusable in certain scenarios since update 15.2, mine included. I have not been able to use my Sonos system at night (which I’ve been doing happily for circa 7 years) since update 15.2 as the volume does not go low enough. This is not acceptable.
As @thkl highlights above, there is such a wild difference between music services that the Sonos experience is now horrendous day-to-day and involves constantly changing volumes when you want to enjoy different services. I shouldn’t have to explain to my household that they must change the volume levels to at least 50% of what they’ve been using for years when playing Apple Music. This is not acceptable. As you just removed iOS hardware volume controls too, you must go into the app to make these volume changes.
Sonos clearly does not care about or understand their customers if a change like this was made without any testing or consideration. The irony is, I’ve never had any issues with the volume levels of Apple Music tracks on my Sonos system at all.
Please escalate your ‘feature request’ as a matter of urgency so that your customers can turn this bug off and continue to actually use their Sonos systems fully again.
Regards,
An incredibly frustrated Sonos customer called Tom.
Hi @thkl
Thank you - this is just the kind of feedback we’re looking for!
We are, of course, unable to normalise if the normalisation levels are not supplied, and typically with online sources, they are not. This is why I have already put forth the idea of having a togglable option in the app.
the goal for the customer should be an equal volume between all music services the customer uses
While this would be a nice-to-have, I feel I should set some expectations - this is unlikely. There are literally hundreds of online sources available, and an order of magnitude (or two) more when you start including radio stations too. They would all need to supply normalisation data for each and every track, and I think that would be beyond the resources of most of them to achieve, especially the radio stations.
@Tom_69 - thank you too for your feedback.
Hi @Corry P ,
yes I’m aware of this. It would be nice if there is a magic way to make the audio levels consistent over all services and tracks. But there is no such a way. I don’t have a better idea as a little slider for advanced like settings, for every service the customer has installed, where the audio level can be adjusted as „a setup like thing“ so it will be all the same level for using the volume slider for a speaker or group. So that I can adjust the online radio a little bit louder and Apple a little bit softer and the volume is the same on eg level 10 in the app.
this may be not the best and easiest solution for all customers but if anyone has this problem he can solve this.
best
Thomas
Hi @Tom_69 et al
Thank you @Tom_69 for bringing it to our attention that we did not yet update this thread - this was an error on our part, and apologies for the lateness.
With the advent of spatial audio from Apple Music becoming available to play on Sonos devices, Apple expressed an interest in actioning a change due to the volumes of stereo tracks being inconsistent with each other and with tracks from other music providers. In line with this, and with long-standing requests from our customers to apply volume normalisation to tracks, we have added to our speakers a response to the normalisation figures provided.
The current behaviour of the sound volume is intentional and by design. Due to the way we now utilise volume normalisation metadata from Apple Music in update 15.2, average loudness is now better aligned between different tracks. Some stereo tracks may appear louder than before and some stereo tracks may appear quieter as a result, but as I said this is expected behaviour.
Knowledge of these changes were not widely distributed internally, hence the reason why we raised this as a possible "bug" on the basis of everyone's experience on this thread. We aim to improve this in the future to minimise the chance of this sort of misunderstanding happening again.
I understand this is not ideal for everyone, and as such I have internally raised as a feature request the option to disable this normalisation process at will from within the Sonos app.
I think you missed the point.. we all love (or to be honest at least I love) normalized volume across our library.
The problem is that now there isn’t enough “notches” od the lower end of volume settings so after this change we could get a SILENCE and then the next lowest possible notch is WAY TOO LOUD to listen at night..
I’ve again compared my Sonos to Alexa and Homepod and the lowest possible Sonos volume notch (1%) is roughly compared to Alexa 15% and Homepod 10%
Again - the problem isn’t the normalization but the volume settings on the lower end of the scale..
just my 2 cents
Bohdan
Hi @Tom_69 et al
Thank you @Tom_69 for bringing it to our attention that we did not yet update this thread - this was an error on our part, and apologies for the lateness.
With the advent of spatial audio from Apple Music becoming available to play on Sonos devices, Apple expressed an interest in actioning a change due to the volumes of stereo tracks being inconsistent with each other and with tracks from other music providers. In line with this, and with long-standing requests from our customers to apply volume normalisation to tracks, we have added to our speakers a response to the normalisation figures provided.
The current behaviour of the sound volume is intentional and by design. Due to the way we now utilise volume normalisation metadata from Apple Music in update 15.2, average loudness is now better aligned between different tracks. Some stereo tracks may appear louder than before and some stereo tracks may appear quieter as a result, but as I said this is expected behaviour.
Knowledge of these changes were not widely distributed internally, hence the reason why we raised this as a possible "bug" on the basis of everyone's experience on this thread. We aim to improve this in the future to minimise the chance of this sort of misunderstanding happening again.
I understand this is not ideal for everyone, and as such I have internally raised as a feature request the option to disable this normalisation process at will from within the Sonos app.
This is just completely BS…
It is understandable that there is no magic fix to normalize the volume between all kind of services, but the current volume for Apple Music is just way too loud. All that is needed is to trim down the volume of Apple Music, in order to be it more equal to other sources. Currently, it is impossible to use a playlist that contains both Apple Music and your own library. It is also impossible to play Apple Music at night, even with a volume of 1, it is too loud.
How can you say this behavior is intentional? @Corry P ? It just does not make any sense.
It’s Apple Music. Not some random radio station or service. Between them and Spotify….that’s it. Make them both work really really well. The “it’s not us” and “we’d have to do it for hundreds of services” rationale is beneath a company of Sonos’s size. Clearly we all love the product and it’s not working properly if you can’t turn the music down. That’s a core feature….not a niche “ask” from a few users.
Normalization is not the issue for me. It’s a great goal for Sonos and I hope that it can be improved upon in the future. I understand the difficulties in doing so, particularly across different services, and to a great extent that’s not a Sonos issue or something that Sonos can really fix.
What *is* a Sonos issue (and something Sonos *can* fix) is the overall playback volume at a given volume setting. Going from a volume of zero (silence) to a volume setting of “1” should be subtle. A “1” should be barely perceptible. A “2” should be a tiny bit louder, etc.
I shouldn’t have to go from silence to “way too freaking loud”. I see no reason that Sonos can’t adjust what a volume setting of “1” means for their hardware’s output.
It’s ok if a “1” is too quiet and I just have to turn the volume up to reach my desired level. What is NOT ok is not being able to turn the volume down low enough. If the Normalization process turns up the “gain” too high, then just lower the hardware’s output at a given volume setting!
