No cutout of the left channel has occurred yet using channel 6.

I’m beginning to think that the original problem using channel 11 was a limited throughput issue (not interference). Switching to channel 6 (same as the Gateway router) may be necessary to ensure max throughput. 

This would suggest that, in general, a Gen 1 Play 5 device & Boost system should be set to the same channel as the router that the Boost is wired to, so that the transmission rate is sufficient to avoid signal loss (my understanding is that the Gen 1 Play 5 is limited to only a 54Mbps rate).

Can anyone confirm this or offer other interpretations/suggestions?

Thanks. 

No, that merely suggests to me that there is less interference on that channel, despite the fact that your normal Wi-Fi is using the same channel. 
 

Generally speaking, running SonosNet and your own Wi-Fi on the same channel is to be discouraged. 

Thanks for your response, and your comment that SonosNet should be on a separate channel from the WiFi router. I thought that might be the case, but I was beginning to doubt it given that channel 6 seemed to be working.

However, since my last post the first cutout of the left speaker has occurred using channel 6. 

So, it would seem that channel 11 would be the preferred for the SonosNet (if Gateway router is on channel 6). Channel 11 should be largely free of interference, given that the routers are set to channels 1 and 6 (both 20Mhz bandwidth).

Therefore, can we conclude that the left speaker cutout when SonosNet is on channel 11 most likely due to a limited throughput? If so, I’m wondering if this a limitation of the Gen 1 Play 5 (54Mbps), given that transmission rates at the location of the speakers are 70-90Mbps. If that’s the case, the only solution would seem to be to replace the speakers with Gen 2, which I assume have a higher transmission rate. Any thoughts on this?

Thanks for your help. 

Unlikely, in my opinion, to be attributed to throughput of any Sonos product, I used a pair of Sonos PLAY:5s gen 1 as a stereo pair for years (before S2) without any issue, but perhaps more likely due to Wi-Fi interference in that location. 

54Mbps is more than sufficient for a few wireless PLAY:5’s -- unless there is interference. With a BOOST connected, WiFi will ignore SonosNet and SonosNet will ignore WiFi, but they do use the same radio spectrum. A neighbor’s wireless use can cause issues, along with Microwave ovens, baby monitors, wireless cameras, and ZigBee.

Make sure that your WiFi is using a fixed, not “AUTO” channel.

While this monitor is becoming less useful with later models, your PLAY:5’s will populate this page. Go to http://naddress of a PLAY:5]:1400/support/review and look at the Network Matrix at the bottom. Red cells indicate potential issues. Note that this data is static. Refresh the page to review current data. (this area is not documented, but we have figured out a few of the details)

What you can do is try your Sonos on each of the clear channels, 1 - 6 - 11 while moving your home WiFi to one of the other two. Keep the Sonos on the channel that works best for it and try your home WiFi on the other two and use the best one there.

It is very difficult to actually see what is going on on the channels WiFi uses as so many apps only show you WiFi signals, ignoring so much else, like the Sonos signal. A good measurement tool can see all the signals and check how busy a channel is but usually aren’t cheap. Some APs and Routers may have a built in RF analysis tool too.

Thanks for your suggestions for diagnostics (network matrix) and router/network checks. These were very helpful for additional tests of the Play 5 speakers.

For all conditions and tests (detailed below), audio cutouts of about 10 seconds were periodically detected on one speaker for stereo paired or grouped speaker setups and for both speakers when tested separately as single devices. Cutouts occurred despite changes in the Boost location and elimination of the Boost (with wired connection to one of the paired or grouped speakers).

For tests with the Boost connected, OFDM Weak signal level for the Play 5s was typically 3 (sort of midrange in quality) for stereo paired, mono grouped, and mono single speaker setups. My understanding is that higher values for the OFDM Weak signal (which appears for older generation devices) are better (e.g., 0=poor). By contrast, lower values are better for the OFDM ANI signal (i.e., the Boost, which was typically 0). Improved OFDM Weak signal measures (4 to 7) were obtained for the speakers when the Boost was eliminated, and a direct wired connection used for the right-side Play 5. 

As a final step, I was able to get a Sonos level 2 (Supervisor) evaluation using his Sonos diagnostics for the stereo pair setup after we discussed the evaluations and results that I had obtained. Some of my submitted diagnostics for his evaluation included cases when the audio cutouts were occurring. His conclusion was that his diagnostics were not showing evidence of a level of interference that would cause the audio cutout, and that the likely cause of the cutout is the age and limitations of the Gen 1 Play 5s. He was convinced that the new generation Sonos devices would be able to perform fine given the signal levels and transmission rates that he observed for my network.

I’m sympathetic to this conclusion, given the seemingly exhaustive tests and number of setups that I’ve run in an attempt to minimize interference. However, I’m concerned that there are no assurances that new Sonos devices will work on my network w/o signal loss (the Supervisor did say that I’d have access to level 3 engineering evaluations if the new devices produced similar audio cutouts).

I’d appreciate any thoughts you have on the evaluations, and whether purchasing new speakers might be the way to go.  Thanks.

Setup and Test Details:

--Sonos devices: Boost and 2 Gen1 Play 5s, separated about 14 feet in a large room in a single family house on 3 acres (thus, minimal interference from neighbors). Few non-Sonos electronic devices active nearby; these were turned off or tested w/ and w/o.  Audio cutouts occur most frequently for higher bit-rate transfers—i.e., when streaming Spotify (max audio quality) and CDs, and less frequently for Pandora, which has a poorer quality audio stream.

--Networks: two routers and SonosNet operational on separate clear channels (1, 6, and 11), with router auto-function disabled and bandwidth=20Mhz. Use of inSSIDer app confirmed separate router channels with non-overlapping frequencies. Testing of all combinations of three channels indicated that SonosNet operated best on channels 6 and 11.

--Test conditions:  evaluated STEREO PAIRED, MONO GROUPED, and MONO SINGLE speakers, with setups for:  (1) Boost (connected via coax wire w/ MoCa adapter), alternately located nearest the left and right speakers; (2) Boost directly wired to the main router (w/o MoCa), located on a separate floor; and (3) direct wire of the Play 5 right-side speaker via coax/MoCa (NO Boost).

--Results:  Audio cutouts detected periodically for all setups. For STEREO PAIR, cutouts consistently occurred on left speaker, regardless of whether Boost was located closest to the left or right speaker. For MONO SINGLE mode, cutouts occurred separately for left and right speakers, regardless of their proximity to Boost. For MONO GROUPED mode, cutouts occurred separately for each speaker, but typically for speaker most distant from Boost. Below are representative results for setups w/ and w/o the Boost.  The SonosNet includes a Playbase (Media Room) but it was not streaming music during the tests.

Just checking to see if anyone thinks the speaker cutouts are caused by interference or are likely to be a Gen 1 speaker legacy problem, based on the evaluations described in my last reply from 5 days ago. Thanks. 

There is nothing disturbing in these Network Matrix displays. I like the BOOST setup best. I’ve seen systems with red cells work just fine. Sonos support has a much better view of network conditions. (and they have documentation) Remember, this is a static view. The matrix could be degraded at other times. The signal levels shown are fine. Levels in the low 20’s can become touch and go. The lowest I’ve seen is 18, but this was not a reliable connection.

ODFM Weak signal level 0 is best, 9 is worst.

A burst of interference could interrupt the music, missed by the matrix, but this should show in the diagnostics.

Run some PING’s on the players. If PING times stretch out for some reason, the players will struggle.

I disagree somewhat with the idea that these units are simply old. Certainly, there could be a hardware fault, but your symptoms would require multiple, intermittent hardware faults.

There is another level of information that you have access to, but it is very difficult to deal with. In the details for each player is a count of errors, dropped packets, and such. Don’t expect to see zero errors. If you notice that one player seems to be struggling more than the others, try powering down that player. 

Thanks for your response. It’s good that you find there’s “nothing disturbing” in the network matrix diagnostics. Those are very typical metrics that I’ve observed, based on a lot of periodic sampling of the SonosNet, including during times when the speaker cutouts occur.

Re pings and checks for other errors, I had already run quite a number of such checks on the Sonos devices from the main router, using the Gateway testing diagnostics, which includes errors, dropped packets, etc. I didn’t see any evidence of problems. Of course, these diagnostics don’t evaluate the transmission between Sonos devices (SonosNet), but at least the transmissions to each device from the router seem fine.

I’m not sure what further testing can be done. I’ll continue to use and monitor the Gen 1 speakers for a while and see what develops.

Any comments from others would be appreciated.

Thanks.