Dear Sonos, please help me to love my Era 300s, or help me understand why I must hate them.

Why would you possibly think someone in the user community could help come up with a solution to a technical barrier that the actual engineers who design this stuff haven’t already thought of?  It would appear by this question that you are just setting Sonos support staff up for an endless “What about this?   Or what about this?” type of interrogation, and if I were them, I wouldn’t touch that with a ten foot pole.

So how about this . . . I’ll explain the technical, but only if you refrain from trying to solve that technical impasse and just accept that it is true?  Deal?

Well, when I called Sonos to ask how to get Dolby Atmos on my Arc ultra from my AppleTV and my projector that doesn’t have an EARC port they told me that the official word from Sonos is that it’s impossible, but they suggested that I reach out to the community to look for solutions that users have found, and indeed I did find a solution that is working great.

So at least the Sonos technical support team is willing to entertain the idea that there may be solutions their engineers haven’t thought of yet.

Happy to hear your technical explanation if you’re willing to share.

Cheers,

Pinkysbrains

Big difference between workarounds that do not require a software/hardware change by Sonos engineers, and something which is built into the system.  

The technical explanation (which is given by many in countless other threads) is the following:

In order to achieve the low latency needed to sync audio with video, when adding surrounds/subs, the radios are reconfigured to a private, one-way, dedicated 5 GHz connection from the soundbar to the surrounds/subs.  This requires a series of handshakes to get right, which is why adding surrounds takes a bit of time.  The reverse happens when the surrounds are removed.  So therefore, an “easily” done toggle between the two is not possible.  They could place a hot button that does the add surrounds/remove surrounds at the touch of the button, but that is not going to speed up the actual process, and doesn’t save much from the system menu commands we have today.  

I thoroughly enjoy the music listening experience of my stereo-paired Era 300’s. Whilst they may not match your expectations or desires when configured as surrounds, they are excellent as stereo speakers with all drivers operating. 
 

Perhaps, though, it would be more relevant to suggest that Sonos should market a set of “reduced driver” Eras, intended as dedicated surrounds and configured/priced without the front-facing driver? 

To your point no 3; the Era 300’s are speakers that can be used as surrounds, but also as Atmos speakers when not used as surrounds. When used as the former they would overpower the fronts, when used as the latter  using the center is fine.

The Era 300’s when bonded to the Arc Ultra as surrounds have the following option:

• In the room with the Arc Ultra go to > Surround Audio > Music Playback > Full

The above setting will allow the Era 300’s to play in full stereo mode along with the Arc Ultra. They will auto switch to surround mode for movies.

If you are wanting the Era 300’s to play as stand-alone Stereo speakers you’ll have to:

• Remove then from the Arc Ultra
• Set them up as a stereo pair 
• Possibly move them to front of the room unless you want to listen to music coming from behind you
• You’ll have to reverse the process to get them back as surrounds

As far as your request for multiple configurations (and the like) they have been made before and listed as a feature request in the community.  I have no comment on that front.

Thank you all for your replies. I should clarify a few points that were poorly written in my first post.

Firstly, I’m not just trying to rant at Sonos, or their engineers who I’m sure are excellent and hard-working. I’m genuinely looking for/asking Sonos to implement a solution that would allow me to use my era300s at their full potential.

Secondly, when I said my wife and I were sad about the music listening experience, I was only referring to the speakers in the surround setup, not as a stereo pair. I totally agree with you ​@nik9669a the sound is fantastic as a stereo pair, especially when I add the sub in a 2.1 set up.

My frustration is with the cumbersome process of switching between the two configurations. Thank you ​@jgatie for pointing out the sequence of handshakes needed to configure the low latency surround setup. It helps me better understand why the process can’t be instantaneous. That said I went through the process today to quantify its complexity (from a UX perspective). To go from surround sound to a 2.1 setup with Trueplay there are 26 steps and it took me 6 minutes trying to be efficient. Only 1 minute 28 seconds of that time was the Sonos system doing handshakes and configurations (mostly on moving the sub). The rest was on clicking through the steps in the app, removing the phone from its case, and walking around the room for the Trueplay.

To switch from the 2.1 to the surround configuration it took 41 steps and also took 6 minutes, of which 2 minutes 58 seconds of handshakes… from the Sonos system, mostly on the sub again (wondering if it’s because it’s an older gen 3 sub).

TLDR it takes 67 steps and 12 minutes to go from one configuration to the other and back again.

So even accounting for all the handshakes and configurations needed, it should be possible to create a toggle switch to automate that process, and it would probably take between 1 and 3 minutes per direction. I would be 100% satisfied with that solution.

​@AjTrek1 thank you for your input. I didn’t know the toggle function was listed as community request. I hope Sonos can confirm this is something they are working on.

Unfortunately setting the music playback to full still doesn’t activate the main drivers on the era 300s and the sound is still considerably inferior to the experience with a 2.1 stereo pair.

Knowing that it’s listed as a community request, I’m hopeful that Sonos will deliver some form of solution soon, but I would love to see Sonos confirm they are working on this.

As it stands, it’s like buying a Swiss Army knife with a great knife and a brilliant corkscrew, only to discover that to go from cutting cheese to opening a bottle of wine, I need to 1st extract the screwdriver tool and use it to disassemble the knife and reassemble it as a corkscrew, and being told that if that is too cumbersome I should just buy a second knife and leave one configured as a knife and the other configured as a corkscrew.🙃

You might be satisfied, the vast majority of people who ask for this feature want a “quick toggle” or a “seamless switch”, neither of which would would be acceptable if it took 1.5 to 3 minutes.  Plus I already stated they could possibly make a macro or hot button switch, and I have been suggesting it for years.  Sonos hasn’t (and neither have the 3rd party apps that do Sonos forbidden things like stereo pairing unlike models or adding separate fronts ← This is an important point!! ).  Make of that what you will. 

Also, don’t expect Sonos to confirm something is being worked on.  They very, very seldom comment on things like that, and it’s only in response to an existing bug, not future enhancements.

If there are 41 or 67 steps involved, that’s a lot of handshaking to confirm the previous step has completed before embarking on the next in an automated process. Furthermore, if the routine fails at some point in the process, what can the “recovery” process be, to retain a “stable” system? 
 

Whilst Sonos has noted this as “a desirable feature”, I’m not expecting it to be delivered. 

Directly related to my points above.  If SonoSequencr or Macronos haven’t done it, it probably cannot be done.  Both of those apps are (in)famous for implementing or automating things Sonos can/won’t do and if it were possible under the current architecture, they’d have done it by now.

Most of the 67 steps mentioned are just user interface ( ie clicking on buttons in the app to confirm that this is what you want to do, choosing which room the speaker should be moved to, taking your phone out of its case to do the Trueplay… etc. All the technical handshakes are done automatically anyway. 
From a technical standpoint what I’m asking for might require a few hundred lines of code, but should be straightforward for the Sonos engineers to implement.

Macronos ceased to exist in 2022; last updated in 2018.

Thanks.  I don’t tend to keep up with 3rd party apps much. 

Oh well,

Return registered.

Dear Sonos team,

 I’ll be happy to buy the speakers again if the toggle switch is implemented.

Best,

A disappointed Era 300 user.

So you are giving up both functions of the Era 300’s because you cannot easily toggle between the two?  Seems like cutting off your nose to spite your face to me.

I convinced my wife we should get the Era300s on the basis that we would get a better music listening experience in addition to Dolby Atmos. She very reasonably said that without the music side of that deal the speakers should go back.

I will make do with my old pair of OneSLs until Sonos figures this out. I was previously using a beam gen 1 and the two OneSLs with the sub 3. Having the arc ultra instead of the beam 1 is already a decent upgrade on that. 

If Sonos never releases this feature, I will wait for the hypothetical Era200s (a more compact and affordable 300 without the huge unused front driver). I would use that for my rear surrounds, and I would eventually consider getting a pair of fives for music.

What I won’t do is put two sets of large identical speakers in my living room, one for playing music and one for watching movies. I would be embarrassed to explain to guests that I had bought into a system that dumb.

Hopefully there are enough people who feel the same way for Sonos to fix this.

Hypothetical Sonos 200s? Obviously you have the inside track on Sonos upcoming releases; hypothetical or not.

It’s been (occasionally) asked for since the Playbar was released over a decade ago.  Make of that what you will, but I wouldn’t be holding my breath.

​@jgatie 

I’m curious, which of the following options you would suggest I go with, or you have chosen to go with yourself.

1 Return the speakers and go with something else like my older one SLs, and get $700 back in pocket until Sonos has a better offer/product/solution?

2 keep the speakers and use them as my surrounds and accept that I’m just gonna have to make do with the music quality from the surround system?

3 Keep the 300s and buy another sub for music, and use the one SLs (or other options) as my rear surrounds?

4 Keep the 300s and carry on performing the 12 minute 67 step circus act?

5 spend an additional $1700 to get a second pair of 300s and another sub to clutter my living room with a sea of speakers?

6 Some other option I haven’t thought of?

For stereo music a Pair of Fives is your best option. Depending on the room and your ears a Sub might be good.

For mixed stereo and Atmos, Paired 300s, my ears think a Sub is a good addition even in a smaller room.

The SLs aren't bad as surrounds, I swapped mine for 100s and use the SLs in another room.

I'm waiting on the Era-500s myself, hopefully they will be Five quality sound with Atmos support and not usually need a Sub for support. Not holding my breath though.

​@Pinkysbrains 

Yes, there is an option you have not considered. I’ll get to that later; but first I want to discuss your original post.

• 1 I wanted a better home cinema experience with Dolby Atmos. This is working great.

So obviously your first need was satisfied.

• 2 I wanted a better music listening experience. This was what convinced my wife that we should get the era 300s, and she is less than happy (I am sad also).
• The Era 300s are marketed as premium surround speakers, but when setup as surrounds their main driver is turned off. This would make perfect sense if you could seamlessly switch to a stereo pair for music…

This is where your post IMO goes contrary to what you envisioned. Even if the Era 300’s gave you the quick switch as you have requested to have them become a stereo pair the sound would come from behind your listening position.  So, we are to assume that would have been OK for your needs….Yes or No?

If Yes, then there’s no more to be said. However, as ​@jgatie indicated don’t hold your breath hoping for the “quick switch” option. 

If No then there is an alternative to get a great pair of Sonos Stereo speakers. They are the Sonos Fives. The Fives are better than the Era 300’s for stereo music listening as that is their primary function. 

I have a Sonos home theater consisting of Arc Ultra, Era 300’s and Sub 4 x 2.  For dedicated stereo music listening I have a stereo pair of Fives upfront in the same room as my Sonos home theater. 

People are curious by nature when introduced to my media room. I’ve never had anyone think it strange that I have the Fives for stereo music flanking my Arc Ultra when explained. Maybe because most are like me and prefer a dedicated pair of stereo speakers upfront designed as such vs a soundbar of any type and music coming from surrounds at the rear of the listening position.

FYI, many in the community will say the Fives don’t need a sub. However, that’s a personal preference as to how much low-end you need for music.

So, FWIW the Fives are the alternative option to complement your home theater as a dedicated stereo pair for music. Good luck to achieve the movie and music experiences you hope for.

Probably should add in the Sonos Amp and a big pair of efficient floor-standing speakers for stereo listening.

No real competition between two Fives or an Amp with a $3000 pair of conventional speakers. 

https://www.crutchfield.com/g_12000/Floor-standing-Speakers.html?&o=d&fa=1#&price=1000-5000

I don’t know, I’m not in your situation.  Personally, I feel if something so obviously improved surround sound as you describe, I’d not let the fact that a function I assumed was possible was not possible overrule that.  But that is me, and you don’t need to argue your point, your reply to my “cut off your nose” comment was more than adequate.

PS - To your last point, like ​@AjTrek1 I too prefer my Fives for 2.0 stereo music sources, which is why I have a pair, and I also see no need for a sub with the Fives for my tastes in music.  If I were playing house music or the 1812 Overture on a regular basis, I may feel differently.  For Atmos music, I’ll use the full Arc/surrounds/Sub combo.

 So in my case, which is perhaps atypical, the “cinema space” is only half of an otherwise larger open plan living room. It’s an attic apartment with slanted ceilings, and wooden beams separating the space in two. When we’re not watching a movie, we are typically either standing, or sitting around the coffee table and not necessarily facing the wall which serves as the cinema screen. So for us it would have been quite acceptable to have the stereo sound coming from behind the movie seating space.

For those of you who are happy to use the 300s solely as rear surrounds, are you not bothered that they are both larger and more expensive than they would need to be to achieve the same thing?

The 300s are too large to place where I have the One SLs, and to achieve optimal placement for the Atmos I was going to need to build some custom shelves that slide out of the bookshelf behind the couch. This was an inconvenience I was happy to work with if having the large driver on the front gave me the better music experience for the same price, but if that driver is permanently switched off, it would always irritate me that I had to make a mess of an otherwise very neat setup just to accommodate a driver that is dead weight.

​@AjTrek1 Your setup sounds great, and I’m sure it sounds great, but from a price perspective it’s $2000 more (twice the price of mine). If you have an additional sub paired with the fives it’s $3000 (2.5 times the price of mine). I know the average Sonos user is well off and I don’t pretend to be broke, but I already have 9 Sonos speakers in a 2 bedroom apartment. With your setup I would have a total of 13 (if 3 subs). I can’t justify that expense to my wife. Especially when a few lines of code could give me a comparable experience for 3k less.

Everyone has different priorities though. My downstairs neighbour ( a diplomat who is paying $7400 a month in rent) is happy with one Bluetooth speaker for music, and watching movies with the TV speakers or a pair of AirPods (that they share, one AirPod each when watching together). He thinks I’m crazy to have spent as much as I already have on a sound system.

To each his own, but I’m not yet ready to give Sonos an additional 3k for what could be an app/firmware update. So with a heavy heart I’m going back to Atmosless surround and a lesser music experience for now.

You keep saying the bolded as fact, when it is pure speculation, based on hopes and wishes.  In fact it is not only pure speculation, it flies in the face of the fact that a 3rd party app which does many things requested here but refused by Sonos, also does not have this function, and they would be the prime candidate to implement this feature if it were possible.